Eibach

[So Cal Camaro]

Originally Posted by axis

Does anyone really think Eibach is just as good as Pfadt, Pedders, or even BMR or Hotchkis? Eibachs are cheaper because they are made cheaper and are mass produced. From what I've seen, they don't have very good customer service either. Can you pick up the phone and get ahold of the head of the company? I've talked to Aaron Pfadt a couple times and I'm sure Pete (Pedders) is pretty accessable as well. From your mods list, I don't see where you cheaped out on any of the performance parts. Why are you wanting to do that with your suspension?

Yes I do. More expensive does not always equal better quality.

[axis]

Originally Posted by FEN

When i purchased my Eibachs two years ago there were only two mfg's offering springs at that time and one was always out of stock.No one had released coil overs yet. So Eibach was the only choice for a 1" drop. I have had these springs for two years now and i can tell you first hand the ride quality and handling is excellent.I have never driven a car outfitted with another brand spring to copmpare but really dont feel i have to because i cant see how there could possibly be any noticeable difference.

You state they are mass produced....you think other mfgr's have some old timer making them one at a time by hand. All mfgr's mass produce their springs. No company is going to tool up for production and make one set of springs.No company makes their springs per order.

You say "from what I've seen, they dont have very good customer service either"...well i have contacted them several times and have no complaints on their customer service.I see no reason to speak to the "head" of any company as long as i can reach a knowledgable person who can accurately answer my questions.UNLESS you have personally had an issue with their customer service i cant see how you can jump to conclusions. If you heard a story second hand....just remember that every story has TWO sides.

I have enough funds available to install ANY brand of spring or coil overs that i want. If the Eibachs were no good, handled badly, etc i would have replaced them by now.I guess the biggest question to ask is....have you even driven a car with these springs to make a true comparison or are you just throwing your OPINION out there w/no real "first hand" experience?

Personally, i feel that you cant go wrong with ANY of the big names....Eibach,Pfadt,Pedders,BMR,Hotckis,etc. I think they all should give aprox the same results.

I ran Eibach prokits on my Talon TSI back in the day. I did have a problem with them and the consistent answer, when I could actually talk to someone, was "we haven't heard of that issue". When you make springs for just about every car on the planet, do you really think the "knowledgeable" guy sitting behind the customer service desk is going to know what might be going on with your Camaro?

You stated that when you bought springs there were only two sets available and the other was all was out of stock. Doesn't sound like they were mass produced to me. By mass produced, I mean they make thousands of sets for all different kinds of cars. I never said they were total crap, just that they aren't of the quality of Pfadt, pedders, etc. As 2Quick posted, there are many factors that go into making a spring. Research and testing plays a big part as well. I do find it funny that Eibach totally batched their front sway adjustment holes. That's some mighty good research on their part.

Originally Posted by brantley847

That is why I asked.. I haven't met anyone who has Eibach who has any complaints. Yet, it seems there are a ton of users who state it is a cheap product or "if you lift your car, the damn thing will uncoil itself". Is that even possible?.. I mean we aren't talking about OBX here..

It seems everyone has mass produced springs... maybe excluding Pedders? Sways may be a different story, but springs seems to be consistently mass produced. They are cold wound, just as Hotchkis, BMR, and so on... I want a 1 inch drop, I do not care for the 1.25+ drops. That is where I finalized it and Eibach made the cut...

I will still be implementing Pedders bushings, as well as Hotchkis chassis brace and strut tower regardless who I choose for sways and springs. As FEN stated, I was under the impression the big 5 (pfadt, eibach, hotchkis, pedders, and BMR) won't have much drop off from one another... we also have to factor in what this vehicle is for me. It is primary a weekend driver when I am not in my work vehicle... no plans to auto cross, MAYBE the strip once a year.

Also, thanks FEN and Quick for your response... I may contact Eibach and try to figure out why they choose or what the benefit is to the bend they have in the rear bar that seems no one else has..

Why do you have a problem with OBX? They've been shown to make great HP, are made from the 304SS, have good fitment, and are priced less than half of Kooks or ARH. I would say they are a good comparison. Not all springs are cold wound. Pedders isn't I know, as Pete has pointed out in many threads. Not sure about the others. IMO, if there was a HUGE price difference, I might feel differently about Eibachs but the fact is, there isn't much. Why are you dead set on Pedders bushings and Hotchkis chasis brace? There are cheaper options out there. Poly is poly and a brace is a brace, isn't it?

Originally Posted by So Cal Camaro

Yes I do. More expensive does not always equal better quality.

I'm not talking price difference, i'm talking quality difference. Yes the others are more expensive but you're only talking $50 between Eibach and Pfadt springs and $130 between the Spring/sways kits. That's not like the $500+ difference between some of the headers and some will defend that price difference to their grave. If you really feel that Eibachs are just as good as any of the others on the market, then the price difference will be stupid to you. As I said before, I don't think Eibachs are crap. I think they are a budget spring. Do I think they are on par with the better companies that actually test their springs in racing and DD situations, not even close.

[brantley847]

Originally Posted by axis

Why do you have a problem with OBX? They've been shown to make great HP, are made from the 304SS, have good fitment, and are priced less than half of Kooks or ARH. I would say they are a good comparison.

Not all springs are cold wound. Pedders isn't I know, as Pete has pointed out in many threads. Not sure about the others. IMO, if there was a HUGE price difference, I might feel differently about Eibachs but the fact is, there isn't much. Why are you dead set on Pedders bushings and Hotchkis chasis brace? There are cheaper options out there. Poly is poly and a brace is a brace, isn't it?

I'm not talking price difference, i'm talking quality difference. Yes the others are more expensive but you're only talking $50 between Eibach and Pfadt springs and $130 between the Spring/sways kits. That's not like the $500+ difference between some of the headers and some will defend that price difference to their grave. If you really feel that Eibachs are just as good as any of the others on the market, then the price difference will be stupid to you. As I said before, I don't think Eibachs are crap. I think they are a budget spring. Do I think they are on par with the better companies that actually test their springs in racing and DD situations, not even close.

My reference was more along the lines of when you stated that I didn't cheap out on previous purchases...

OBX...I just don't believe the compound is what they claim. However, no sense in discussing that here, I suppose...

The whole purpose for me posting this case is that there IS a substantial price difference between all of these companies. I have found two vendors who sell this Pro plus kit (sways/springs) for 450 or less with free shipping. Yes, Eibach retails at 650.

I have not found one company or vendor who will sell me Hotckis, Pedders, Pfadt stage 1 kits (meaing BOTH sways and springs) for less than 550-600 after shipping.

A 450 price tag versus a product that is 600-800 is a substantial price difference. We are talking 25-40% off... I was curious WHY. Eibach is not the only company that is cold wound. So the quality is in the sways? Or is it because they use the same set up for a completely different auto make and model? I don't see how that would work, I guess?

Two of our BEST vendors (in relation to price and customer service ) on Camaro5 sell Hotchkis stage 1 for over 800. Pfadt for 600. Pedders Coils only are 380-400. Maybe I could receive great discounted pricing if there was a pedders supplier around here, but unfortunately the closest is 2.5 hours away...

If money was not an obstacle, I think Pedders, Pfadt, Hotckis stand seem to have the biggest following here....there usually is very good reason for that. Just as ARH, SW, and Kooks have huge followings here...Their quality speaks for itself. However, money is... so my thought process is does BMR or Eibach REALLY fall behind these two companies for a daily driver that is taken to a strip once a year? That is all I am asking... I can buy BMR or Eibach NOW, or probably have to wait a whole year to drop 600-800 (another 140 for install and alignment) instead of 400.

The reason I mention pedders for bushings is because their prices are comparable to every else and yes, I do believe they make the best product. They preach and research sub frame inserts...

As far as the chassis brace, well I just like hotchkis' design, honestly lol...

[caper]

brantley, i am having the same issues...i am looking to buy some suspension parts, and i dont want to spend my hard earned money on something that doesnt work well, but at the same time, i dont have money to spend on the more expensive brands...i have been reading a lot on here and the posts from the various companies have been GREAT!! and if I had unlimited funds, i know which i would go with - and some here do have money to spend so they do go with these companies. i honestly dont have a bunch so i am piecing things together...looking at lg motorsports sways first, pedders bushings, and then hotchkis brace and tower along with some pfadt parts at some point, lol. i would really like to keep it all one company, but they each make some parts i think are best value for my dollar...if i had the coin to drop...it would be all one company

[FEN]

Originally Posted by axis

I ran Eibach prokits on my Talon TSI back in the day. I did have a problem with them and the consistent answer, when I could actually talk to someone, was "we haven't heard of that issue". When you make springs for just about every car on the planet, do you really think the "knowledgeable" guy sitting behind the customer service desk is going to know what might be going on with your Camaro?

You stated that when you bought springs there were only two sets available and the other was all was out of stock. Doesn't sound like they were mass produced to me. By mass produced, I mean they make thousands of sets for all different kinds of cars. I never said they were total crap, just that they aren't of the quality of Pfadt, pedders, etc. As 2Quick posted, there are many factors that go into making a spring. Research and testing plays a big part as well. I do find it funny that Eibach totally batched their front sway adjustment holes. That's some mighty good research on their part.



Why do you have a problem with OBX? They've been shown to make great HP, are made from the 304SS, have good fitment, and are priced less than half of Kooks or ARH. I would say they are a good comparison. Not all springs are cold wound. Pedders isn't I know, as Pete has pointed out in many threads. Not sure about the others. IMO, if there was a HUGE price difference, I might feel differently about Eibachs but the fact is, there isn't much. Why are you dead set on Pedders bushings and Hotchkis chasis brace? There are cheaper options out there. Poly is poly and a brace is a brace, isn't it?



I'm not talking price difference, i'm talking quality difference. Yes the others are more expensive but you're only talking $50 between Eibach and Pfadt springs and $130 between the Spring/sways kits. That's not like the $500+ difference between some of the headers and some will defend that price difference to their grave. If you really feel that Eibachs are just as good as any of the others on the market, then the price difference will be stupid to you. As I said before, I don't think Eibachs are crap. I think they are a budget spring. Do I think they are on par with the better companies that actually test their springs in racing and DD situations, not even close.

When i purchased my Eibach springs, the "other" company had the springs listed on their site and kept promising them but they never came.This was due to the fact that they were just beginning to produce them.Now they are mass produced like any other spring.


You suggest that the OP should not buy Eibach springs because they are cheap but when the OP states he wants Pedders bushings and a Hotchkis brace you then say....Why get that when there are CHEAPER options out there. If poly is poly and a brace is a brace then isnt a spring a spring.


You say that you feel that Eibach is not on par with "better companies" because they do not actually test their springs on race cars and DD situations....Once again personal opinion,speculation and no facts.

Bottom line is that we might as well just agree to disagree. I have had them for two years and they perform just fine and thats from first hand experience.

[Sack Rat 2SS]

[QUOTE=FEN;3677297]When i purchased my Eibachs two years ago there were only two mfg's offering springs at that time and one was always out of stock.No one had released coil overs yet. So Eibach was the only choice for a 1" drop. I have had these springs for two years now and i can tell you first hand the ride quality and handling is excellent.I have never driven a car outfitted with another brand spring to copmpare but really dont feel i have to because i cant see how there could possibly be any noticeable difference.

Like FEN above I bought Eibach bars/springs two years ago and was looking for a 1 inch drop maximum. Most of the others drop way too far IMHO. I do not like the fender lip too close to the top of the tire. No rattles or problems in two years. I do not autocross or roadrace but was looking for a simple improvement over the factory suspension at a reasonable price. I have since added solid pfadt rear subframe bushings which helped the Eibach's even more.

[brantley847]

Originally Posted by caper

brantley, i am having the same issues...i am looking to buy some suspension parts, and i dont want to spend my hard earned money on something that doesnt work well, but at the same time, i dont have money to spend on the more expensive brands...i have been reading a lot on here and the posts from the various companies have been GREAT!! and if I had unlimited funds, i know which i would go with - and some here do have money to spend so they do go with these companies. i honestly dont have a bunch so i am piecing things together...looking at lg motorsports sways first, pedders bushings, and then hotchkis brace and tower along with some pfadt parts at some point, lol. i would really like to keep it all one company, but they each make some parts i think are best value for my dollar...if i had the coin to drop...it would be all one company

I do recall some guys on here having issues if they mix and match the sways and springs due to companies having varying tension between them.. So keep those together... I think we are good to mix and match the links, chassis brace, bushings, and strut tower.

I will shoot you a PM on the prices I found today...

Originally Posted by Sack Rat 2SS

Like FEN above I bought Eibach bars/springs two years ago and was looking for a 1 inch drop maximum. Most of the others drop way too far IMHO. I do not like the fender lip too close to the top of the tire. No rattles or problems in two years. I do not autocross or roadrace but was looking for a simple improvement over the factory suspension at a reasonable price. I have since added solid pfadt rear subframe bushings which helped the Eibach's even more.

Exactly my thought... I want handling improvement, obviously. Pedders sub frame inserts will address the issues that Pete has mentioned a many time on here... Maryland speed has a great price on the Hotchkis Chassis brace and strut tower, and I did not want to drop more than 1 inch. That is where Eibach comes into play. I recall a few autocross guys saying 1-1.5 drops are optimal... but there are so many areas where I fear a 1.5 would scrape my brace or headers. 1 inch has been the biggest appeal.

[caper]

im not doin drop springs...dont wanna lower the car.

[So Cal Camaro]

I personally am waiting for Eibach to release their Pro Dampners for the Camaro to match with the springs/sways, which are still in development. I can afford to buy any components I want, but I look for value in my purchases.

[brantley847]

Originally Posted by So Cal Camaro

I personally am waiting for Eibach to release their Pro Dampners for the Camaro to match with the springs/sways, which are still in development. I can afford to buy any components I want, but I look for value in my purchases.

may be a stupid question, but I am still trying to teach myself suspension components.. what are pros and cons to dampeners?

[axis]

Originally Posted by FEN

When i purchased my Eibach springs, the "other" company had the springs listed on their site and kept promising them but they never came.This was due to the fact that they were just beginning to produce them.Now they are mass produced like any other spring.


You suggest that the OP should not buy Eibach springs because they are cheap but when the OP states he wants Pedders bushings and a Hotchkis brace you then say....Why get that when there are CHEAPER options out there. If poly is poly and a brace is a brace then isnt a spring a spring.


You say that you feel that Eibach is not on par with "better companies" because they do not actually test their springs on race cars and DD situations....Once again personal opinion,speculation and no facts.

Bottom line is that we might as well just agree to disagree. I have had them for two years and they perform just fine and thats from first hand experience.

Obviously, you didn't catch the "isn't it" on the end with a smiley. Why cheap out on a set of springs when you won't cheap out on other parts. No I don't think Poly is Poly, a brace is a brace, or a spring is a spring. So how would you know if any of the others are better since you've never run anything but Eibach? Can you honestly tell me that Eibach takes every car that they make springs for, out on the track and abuses the crap out of them to find the right spring rate? I honestly don't know but I highly doubt it. Can you confirm that they do, or are you just speculating as well?

Can you show me a single post where I advised Brantley or anyone else to NOT buy Eibachs? Damn, you're almost as good at reading things into my words as my wife. He didn't say he wanted to buy Eibachs and I jumped in to convince him otherwise. He asked a question and I answered it. If you don't like my answer or disagree with it, that's fine. State your facts, and show the data to support it and Brantley can make up his own mind. You accused me of not showing any facts, can you produce the facts to state otherwise?

[FEN]

Originally Posted by axis

Obviously, you didn't catch the "isn't it" on the end with a smiley. Why cheap out on a set of springs when you won't cheap out on other parts. No I don't think Poly is Poly, a brace is a brace, or a spring is a spring. So how would you know if any of the others are better since you've never run anything but Eibach? Can you honestly tell me that Eibach takes every car that they make springs for, out on the track and abuses the crap out of them to find the right spring rate? I honestly don't know but I highly doubt it. Can you confirm that they do, or are you just speculating as well?

Can you show me a single post where I advised Brantley or anyone else to NOT buy Eibachs? Damn, you're almost as good at reading things into my words as my wife. He didn't say he wanted to buy Eibachs and I jumped in to convince him otherwise. He asked a question and I answered it. If you don't like my answer or disagree with it, that's fine. State your facts, and show the data to support it and Brantley can make up his own mind. You accused me of not showing any facts, can you produce the facts to state otherwise?

In no way do i feel that i cheaped out.Ive never made any comments on how any of these companies test their products....you are the one who made the claim that Eibach does not test their products as well as other companies.Unless you know exactly how Eibach tests their products then your statement was indeed a speculation with no data or facts to back it up.

I have only given my first hand experience pertaining to Eibach springs.Let me ask you this....have you ever driven in a 5th Gen Camaro that had Eibach springs so that you could give us your honest feedback on their ride quality or handling?

[Sack Rat 2SS]

Maryland speed has a great price on the Hotchkis Chassis brace and strut tower, and I did not want to drop more than 1 inch. That is where Eibach comes into play.

brantly847 - Just curious as to why you would prefer the Maryland Speed strut tower brace over a factory 2011 vert brace which would be a direct bolt on for you?? Also, there are several Chassis brace pieces that come from factory on the vert's underside as well that might work for you.

[brantley847]

FEN and Axis, you guys can probably agree to disagree man.. lol, you guys both have a valid argument and wont come to a common ground. I have taken bits and pieces of both of your opinions to help in my decision, but the most influencing argument for me is someone who is currently running with the product OR someone who has had major (or even minor) failure with this product. I have had a few people and vendors PM me reasons for the low cost and some have cited quality, but in the defense of Eibach, no one has documentation or proof of any failures on THIS vehicle. Just because they mass produce two bars across a wide variety of make and models does not necessarily make them poor quality. I appreciate Hotchkis, Pfadt, BMR, and Pedders and the time the have put into their American made products, however I just don't have 300-400 dollars to burn for a similar product (and then pay another 125-200 for install and alignment) on a vehicle that is never auto-crossed and runs the strip once a year. Because of my appreciation of these companies, Hotchkis will most likely get my business for both of their braces. Pedders will probably get my business for their whole entire bushing kit, and Pfadt or Pedders for links.

However, this will take literally months to years to complete. I will have the funding for that at a later date... I want handling improvement for a weekend driver. Until my wife finishes her bull crap 3 months UNPAID!!! internship to be a teacher, I just don't have the funding for that. Whereas 430 dollars at my door step is a viable option... so I could purchase this product now, if it sucks.. upgrade to the "Big 3" when money is handy. If it works out, it works out. I think we all agree my car isn't going to fall apart because I added their drop and sways.

Again, both of you have a valid argument that I will take into consideration, and I thank you for your responses.......

Originally Posted by Sack Rat 2SS

Maryland speed has a great price on the Hotchkis Chassis brace and strut tower, and I did not want to drop more than 1 inch. That is where Eibach comes into play.

brantly847 - Just curious as to why you would prefer the Maryland Speed strut tower brace over a factory 2011 vert brace which would be a direct bolt on for you?? Also, there are several Chassis brace pieces that come from factory on the vert's underside as well that might work for you.

Yea, you and I appear to have the same criteria.

I wouldn't say I like it over the factory brace... I do like the look of both (I think slightly more favoring the look of the Hotchkis brace), but I would be curious to see what the pricing is of the brace is at my local dealership.

I have an early model 11, so I don't know if I have the holes or not? I know the 10s and someone mentioned early 11s would have to drill. I am open to either one, as it is not a priority yet. Maryland does have great pricing on both the strut and chassis...

Do you have any pricing or links that show part numbers? I tried GM direct and didn't see anything.