Tuner will VOID warranty

[PSP-SS]

All this talk about a TUNE ruining the warranty are we talking about giving the car a whole bunch of HP and whatever (the engine and car as built cant handle)? Here's my question, if I get a tune to just get rid of the AFM (if you can), have a Catback exhaust and maybe get a CAI and I drive normally (nothing crazy) do I really need to worry about the car breaking??? Or, I'm happy with 400hp and just want to get rid of the AFM, will a TUNE hurt me or the car? Thanks

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Dr Jekel

Amen. As a noob to this mod thing it is deceiving to think that you would do this. My car has been modded and I made a choice before the first bolt was turned and excepted the outcome if anything happens.

Is it possible that the mods I did will void my warranty, YES YES YES, but heres the kicker. Let's say a faulty piston breaks and wrecks my motor, since I have had the cam changed we will never know the part was the problem and all GM will do is say you modded, we're sorry. To be honest I can not blame them what so ever.

To say you can "Trick" them, well let's just say I wouldn't buy from you. Karma is a Bi*** and when you do dirt, dirt comes back to you.

I do not recall any other tuner telling me they could hide their tune, in fact each one told me that once they did it that I could kiss my warranty good bye.

So think about it, but don't sell wolf tickets, because the first one who has an engine problem, no matter who tunes it will absolutely post it here. Don't be THAT guy.

BTW I am only pushing 450rwhp, so I am not really worried, plus I do not dog my car, I ride slow so EVERYONE can see this amazing car GM and the Camaro Team has built. JMHO

I REALLY don't think there is a question of quality of the tune, seriously. But if you roast a piston, even if it has nothing to do with the tune, and the dealership decided to do some investigation and upload the files to GM, I'm sure there's going to be a problem. But, aside from the morality points in your post, I'm in total agreement. I'm not trying to pass judgement - that's for ya'll

Originally Posted by Chrisrp454

The internet, funny thing it can tell you a lot. Lets see I do a little goggleing and low and behold, it is not just C5 saying this about tunes.
Corvette guys, Mustang guys, GTO Guys, Pickup guys, Dodge guys......
and so on. So you say its just 2 mods at C5 is kinda an out right lie.
Gee what else is not the truth???

Please - let's not be suggestive

Originally Posted by Flynnaz

I had my rear main seal replaced, it was leaking way before I put the tune on. My dealer fixed it no questions asked, they even said how sweet my Airaid cai was. I guess I'm lucky to have a common sence dealer. If I was racing or using my car in a bad manner I would take full reasonably if something were to happen.

Some of us don't have a flexible dealer doing warranty work. Obviously, a tune has nothing to do with your rear main, but I wonder how many other dealers would've dug in further... I don't believe it's fair to necessarily thing of such dealers as not having common sense, but it's a great point. Maybe there are dealers out there trying to be police and deliberately look into customer's cars files I prefer to be on the safe side, personally. If I mod', I take responsibility, just like I think everyone should do. HOWEVER, I think everyone should be knowledgeable to what risks they may be taking

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by PSP-SS

All this talk about a TUNE ruining the warranty are we talking about giving the car a whole bunch of HP and whatever (the engine and car as built cant handle)? Here's my question, if I get a tune to just get rid of the AFM (if you can), have a Catback exhaust and maybe get a CAI and I drive normally (nothing crazy) do I really need to worry about the car breaking??? Or, I'm happy with 400hp and just want to get rid of the AFM, will a TUNE hurt me or the car? Thanks

NO the tune is very low risk...

The issue is what GM says is safe operating conditions of the car.

Any mod changes those conditions. The tune is the core of making most aftermarket bolt ons produce the best results. Mostly by changing the Air fuel ratio and so on.

so the tune isn't voiding the warranty cus it does damage. It could be the cause of a denied warranty claim because it changes the operating parameters of what GM claims to be safe.

The LS3 L99 are way over built. I'm safely getting 540 rwhp on a stock ls3...

so don't worry about most mods damaging the car...

What we are saying is, if you have to have the warranty, or can't afford to fix the car yourself, don't mod the car...

If you do mod the car then you accept responsibility for the possibility of a denied warranty claim. Period.

[Mike@DS]

Originally Posted by Chrisrp454

The internet, funny thing it can tell you a lot. Lets see I do a little goggleing and low and behold, it is not just C5 saying this about tunes.
Corvette guys, Mustang guys, GTO Guys, Pickup guys, Dodge guys......
and so on. So you say its just 2 mods at C5 is kinda an out right lie.
Gee what else is not the truth???

The issue is, there are no moderators or admins making false claims in any of those threads on those other forums.

Just the SS guard here at Camaro5....

In the time this thread has been up and spreading misinformation, surely someone must have had a warranty issue? Whats that? No new posts claiming a warranty issue as a result of a tune? Wow, imagine that....

[radz28]

Originally Posted by PSP-SS

All this talk about a TUNE ruining the warranty are we talking about giving the car a whole bunch of HP and whatever (the engine and car as built cant handle)? Here's my question, if I get a tune to just get rid of the AFM (if you can), have a Catback exhaust and maybe get a CAI and I drive normally (nothing crazy) do I really need to worry about the car breaking??? Or, I'm happy with 400hp and just want to get rid of the AFM, will a TUNE hurt me or the car? Thanks

Tunes on a mild bolt-on car probably won't be a huge amount; it will vary, but think in the order of maybe 10-20 RWHP. However, there are other elements some tunes can get into, and one is tranny tuning, if you have an auto'. I really doubt you'd have a problem with turning the AFM off, given your example. That catback isn't really getting you a whole lot of power; the CAI will moreso IMO. Adding a tune by a competent tuner shouldn't harm your car any more than a CB or CAI. However, the topic here is that IF a car has to go in for engine work, under warranty, and has a tune from said company, most information is pointing to the fact that GM very well has the resources and technology to see the tune in the file from the car when the dealer uploads it for warranty acceptance. I personally don't know if that's the exact way it works, but I can imagine I'm not far off. I used to handle warranty return parts for the dealership when I was there (5.5 years). They didn't have that technology then, but it looks like they have it now and may be using it.

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

The issue is, there are no moderators or admins making false claims in any of those threads on those other forums.

Just the SS guard here at Camaro5....

In the time this thread has been up and spreading misinformation, surely someone must have had a warranty issue? Whats that? No new posts claiming a warranty issue as a result of a tune? Wow, imagine that....

Originally Posted by GTAHVIT

First of all, in full disclosure, it is not my choice who is a sponsor and who isn't. My only interaction with sponsors is the Camaro5 Fest which is not part of site sponsorship.

So only Tran decides the terms of site sponsorship. I've alread "reported" my post to Tran so he is aware of my coments to you. Literally I put myself on report with my boss.

Now, having said that. Why do you continually dodge the fact that your bussiness approach is centered on the fact that you are encouraging your customers to lie about their mods???

Is that how you choose to distinguish yourself from your competitors?

I've never, not once, said you don't have a good product. NOT once. I've never said that your tunes aren't worth the money. Not once.

All I'm saying is be honest about what you've done to your car and accept responsibility for it as part of the contract you, the car owner, signed with GM.

Would you care to address the issue of marketing a product in such a way that encourages decieving GM into thinking the Car was never modified?

Just not gonna address it are you.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

The issue is, there are no moderators or admins making false claims in any of those threads on those other forums.

Just the SS guard here at Camaro5....

In the time this thread has been up and spreading misinformation, surely someone must have had a warranty issue? Whats that? No new posts claiming a warranty issue as a result of a tune? Wow, imagine that....

It is not our business or our interest to go to other forums. I'm not here to bash you or anyone. It's funny you continue to be the one calling others names.

You have still not addressed my question about the statement from GM...

[DSteck]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

I recall a post from them on LS1tech where I seem to recall them saying they could indeed defeat the CVN check, but that they chose not to for the same reason you mentioned.

But you're good with being involved?

Originally Posted by Flynnaz

I had my rear main seal replaced, it was leaking way before I put the tune on. My dealer fixed it no questions asked, they even said how sweet my Airaid cai was. I guess I'm lucky to have a common sence dealer. If I was racing or using my car in a bad manner I would take full reasonably if something were to happen.

Rear main seals leaking has been an issue with other platforms, to the point that even a TSB had been issued if I remember right. They're not going to argue with something trivial like that. I took my Z06 to the dealer, loping like hell and smelling like death, to get a check valve in the fuel tank replaced... Why'd they do it without asking questions? Because it's a common issue, and likely had nothing to do with modifications. Like I said... break a piston, and then let us know what happens.

[Mike@DS]

Originally Posted by DSteck

But you're good with being involved?

The idea was, we'd never have any warranty issues, and thus it would not be a problem.

We did not decide, 'lets go tell the world the tunes are not detectable', but it is a valid question from our customers, and we wanted to be sure there would not be any issues relating to the use of our product.

At no point did we foresee a bunch of mods who felt it was their moral obligation to attack us on our claims, especially with NO proof whatsoever. They make it out to sound like we are blatantly lying, and act as though we do not have the understanding of these PCMs that we do. Our intent is only to provide a worry free product to our customers, by the time they start custom tuning, they have likely done other mods to void their warranty, so nobody is trying to decieve anyone or anything.

[SummitWhiteLS]

"Aftermarket tune; GM sees it and voids your cars warrenty!"
http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=172024

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#09-06-04-026: Identifying Non-GM (Aftermarket) Engine and Transmission Calibrations for V8 Gas Engines - (May 18, 2009)

Subject: Identifying Non-GM (Aftermarket) Engine and Transmission Calibrations for V8 Gas Engines

Models: 2006-2009 GM Passenger Cars and Light Duty Trucks (Excluding Saab 9-7X)

2006-2009 HUMMER H2, H3

Equipped with V8 Gas Powered Engines Only

Attention: This bulletin applies to V8 gas powered engines ONLY. For all other gas powered engine applications, refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 08-06-04-033D. For diesel powered engines, refer to Corporate Bulletin Number 08-06-04-006C.

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General Motors is identifying an increasing number of engine, transmission and catalytic converter part failures that are the result of non-GM (aftermarket) engine and transmission control calibrations being used.

When alteration to the GM-released engine or transmission control calibrations occurs, it subjects powertrain and driveline components (engine , transmission, transfer case, driveshaft and rear axle) to stresses that were not tested by General Motors. It is because of these unknown stresses, and the potential to alter reliability, durability and emissions performance, that GM has adopted a policy to cancel any remaining warranty coverage to the powertrain and driveline components whenever the presence of a non-GM (aftermarket) calibration is confirmed - even if the non-GM control module calibration is subsequently removed.

Warranty coverage is based on the equipment and calibrations that were released on the vehicle at time of sale, or subsequently updated by GM. That’s because GM testing and validation matches the calibration to a host of criteria that is essential to assure reliability, durability and emissions performance over the life of the warranty coverage and beyond. Stresses resulting from calibrations different than those tested and released by GM can damage or weaken components, leading to poor performance and or shortened life.

Additionally, non-GM (aftermarket) issued engine control modifications often do not meet the same emissions performance standards as GM issued calibrations. Depending on state statutes, individuals who install engine control module calibrations that put the vehicle outside the parameters of emissions certification standards may be subject to fines and/or penalties.

This bulletin outlines a procedure to identify the presence of non-GM (aftermarket) calibrations. GM recommends performing this check whenever a hard part failure is seen on internal engine or transmission components, or before an engine assembly or transmission assembly is being replaced under warranty. It is also recommended that the engine calibration verification procedure be performed whenever diagnostics indicate that catalytic converter replacement is indicated.

In May 2009, the PQC will begin piloting a process to confirm the ECM/PCM calibration is GM issued. Beginning on May 18, 2009, the PQC will require a picture of the engine calibration verification screen, as outlined in this bulletin, before authorizing any V8 gas powered engine replacement.

If a non-GM calibration is found and verification has taken place through GM, the remaining powertrain and driveline warranty will be cancelled and notated in GMVIS and the dealership will be notified.

•Plug in the Tech 2®.
•Go to diagnostics and build the vehicle.
•Select "Powertrain".
•Select "Engine".
•*Select "Engine Control Module" or "PCM".
•*Select "Module ID Information" or "I/M Information System" if module ID information selection is not available.
•*If "I/M information System" was selected, it may be necessary to select "Vehicle Information" in order to display the calibration information.
•Take a CLEAR digital picture of the Tech 2® screen showing the engine calibration verification information as shown above.
•E-mail the snapshot picture to ****. In the subject line of the email include the phrase "V8 Cal" as well as the complete VIN and Dealer BAC. In the body of the e-mail, inlcude the VIN, mileage, R.O. number and BAC.
•Allow two hours for the PQC to verify the calibrations and set up the case details.
•You may call the PQC two hours after submitting the e-mail for authorization to replace the assembly. This will provide them time to receive, review and set up a case on the request. Please be prepared to provide all the usual documentation that is normally required when requesting an assembly authorization from the PQC.

If the CVN information is displayed as "N/A", it will be necessary to contact the TCSC (1-800-222-2222 English or 1-800-222-2222 French) to obtain the CVN information.
__________________

[Dr Jkel]

I know what would solve this, just provide a warranty that if you tune breaks something you will fix, Problem Solved

[GTAHVIT]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

The idea was, we'd never have any warranty issues, and thus it would not be a problem.

We did not decide, 'lets go tell the world the tunes are not detectable', but it is a valid question from our customers, and we wanted to be sure there would not be any issues relating to the use of our product.

At no point did we foresee a bunch of mods who felt it was their moral obligation to attack us on our claims, especially with NO proof whatsoever. They make it out to sound like we are blatantly lying, and act as though we do not have the understanding of these PCMs that we do. Our intent is only to provide a worry free product to our customers, by the time they start custom tuning, they have likely done other mods to void their warranty, so nobody is trying to decieve anyone or anything.

Mike,

Seriously. You can get us off your back very easily.

Just clear up these issues.

Do you encourage people to use your tune because you feel it can be hidden from GM?

Do you expect your customers to be honest about the fact that they have modified their cars and may be denied a warranty claim due to said modification?

[radz28]

Originally Posted by Mike@Diablosport

The idea was, we'd never have any warranty issues, and thus it would not be a problem.

We did not decide, 'lets go tell the world the tunes are not detectable', but it is a valid question from our customers, and we wanted to be sure there would not be any issues relating to the use of our product.

At no point did we foresee a bunch of mods who felt it was their moral obligation to attack us on our claims, especially with NO proof whatsoever. They make it out to sound like we are blatantly lying, and act as though we do not have the understanding of these PCMs that we do. Our intent is only to provide a worry free product to our customers, by the time they start custom tuning, they have likely done other mods to void their warranty, so nobody is trying to decieve anyone or anything.

Who is attacking you? And here is a bit of proof, again: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79922 (first post) http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=79484 (even though it's tough to understand). You, sir, are the one name calling and suggesting the Mods' who've commented are plotting on you. All that you've been asked is to prove GM can't see your tunes. Stop deflecting and answer these posts and show your evidence, because, so far, the only evidence posted shows that perhaps GM has coding you may not know about. Aren't they, afterall, that wrote the codes for these cars? It would stand to reason, for me, that they know the ins-and-outs of the PCMs.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by SummitWhiteLS

"Aftermarket tune; GM sees it and voids your cars warrenty!"
http://www.cobaltss.net/forums/showthread.php?t=172024

What G8 forum was that from, by chance? I'm just wondering if the same person who posted the thread here is the same that posted on that forum. I think this can just go to show that it's not about the Mods' here trying to get dark on a particular vendor here.

Originally Posted by Dr Jekel

I know what would solve this, just provide a warranty that if you tune breaks something you will fix, Problem Solved

I know I'm arguing semantics (with all due respect ) but that leaves much liability with them. I know you did not mean this literally, but maybe if the warranty coverage could be narrowed down to something along the lines of: "If GM detects an aftermarket tune from Diablosport (or anyone else with similar undectable claims) that Diablosport assumes responsibility for repairs related to the failure of the tune", or something along those lines. It obviously leaves a lot to be desired, but maybe that'd help some people feel better. Or, just cease claiming undetectability until it can be proven...