Magnacharger Vs. Turbonetics T76

[AngelSpeedFreak]

I installed my maggie in my garage by myself in 1 weekend. install was pretty easy. You should come up to ABQ this weekend for our meet...

[calbert1999]

Originally Posted by JLE58

yeah if anything put a bottle on it with a small shot for now.

Now that's good advice. This is a nice inexpensive way to get some power, on a stock bottom end without putting a hole in your pocket.

Originally Posted by JLE58

SSE 4 2ss I would have some twin turbonetics tc76's if i had big goals like that And if your turbos are tapped out on the turbine side the Nitrous will make it worse may help if its on the compressor side. PM ME

Op If the set up is staying with the motor and going in the 68 camaro either would be fine on a stock ls3.

on the other hand a 427 would need a good size t6 turbo and good size twin t4's

I wouldn't say that considering there are a lot of stock LS3 motors in the junk yard after having been boosted. Just because there are some successfull boosted builds doesn't mean it's going to be fine in all cases. I'd go further to say most that haven't blown up are on borrowed time or have very modest boost and tunes so not really maximized from a cost benefit basis and realistically those that are maximizing on the benefits of TT or SC's are re-built bottom ends.

It's common knowledge that the LS3 engine is NOT forged and the compression is not adequate for boost. That doesn't mean you can't boost the engine successfully and make some gains, it just means it's not "recommended" on the stock bottom end and if you do you are ultimately responsible if it goes horribly wrong. I'd go further to say that all "honest" performance installers are up front with this even though they could still provide you with 5psi. of boost to get a modest 100hp. fairly safely and put you at ease with some kind of powertrain warranty for a premium.

I agree with JLE58; If OP wants some power now, and not planning to go the forged / stroker route on the LS3, then get a fairly inexpensive NOS kit with some safety gear, and minimal shot and call it a day, until you build your LSX and or forge the LS3 for boost before you throw it in the 68.

All the people with SC's on the stock bottom end LS3 will say get boost, all the folks with boosted and destroyed stock LS3's will give you the same advice I'm providing.

[K1SSRSS]

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks

Well, the Turbo kit will continue to serve your bigger engine better that the 2.3 Maggie plus nothing feels as good as Turbo.

If you're still set on S/C, I'd consider Whipple.
p.s. Since you're in N.M., why don't you go and check out he Hellion TT?

Originally Posted by Z_Rocks

You're right on the turbo size for bigger displacement. I was more hinting of the kit itself can take the bigger engine and he should then upgrade the turbo at that time or start with bigger turbo from the beginning.
But with TT kit from fro IPS for example, you get the choice of bigger turbos from the start. That was my original point. Hope it's more clear now

Either setup I go with will stay with the LS3 when it goes in the 68 as I was planning on either a dual turbo or procharger setup once the car is ready for the 427. I have been considering the whipple, the only reason I was looking at the maggie over the whipple was due to the optional powertrain warranty, but I just found out this morning that the warranty is no longer offered.

Originally Posted by JLE58

I guess it comes down to how much power the OP wants to make.

I am not concerned so much with how much power the LS3 setup will make as much as the reliability of the motor. I would like to see a solid 550-600 rwhp, but more always = a bigger smile up untill the motor comes apart :(.

Originally Posted by SSE 4 2SS

I can speak to at least ont kit and the size of the turbo's relative to the size of the motor...

I'm not going into all of the ugly details, but suffice it to say that the original journal bearing turbo's lasted one week, and my ball bearing turbos, the set I bought after one week of driving the journal bearing turbo's, are in the shop at the original manufacturers to be checked and repaired... There was some damage to one of them...

They are looking to possibly increase the size of the hot side housing and increase the size of the turbine. They are also looking at a different turbine design that may help with the heat retention.... 427 Cubic inches throws a lot of exhaust gases at the turbo's...

We have huge heat related problems we are trying to resolve... Due to the fact that I never ran the original turbo's on the factory cubes, I don't know the durability. Obviopusly with the 427 cubic inches, we put too much heat and exhaust to them... It supposedly was an oiling failure... but it came as a designed kit... This according to the person marketing the kit. We swapped to ball bearing turbo's and they lasted seven months before there was an issue... So I still fail to fathom why I had to buy two new turbo's, but there it is...The oiling was exactly as designed and listed in the instructions...

Precision, people that actually know what they are talking about determind that the issue is too high a volume of exhaust and too much heat retention... even for the ball bearing turbo's... which was the recommended fix by someone else that supposedly knows.

I'll know in a week or two what the resoultion is... My builder is working with one of the tech reps and another person there to come up with a solution.

This is all with a very conservative tune and only 12 lbs of boost... We are getting ready to stretch her legs and see how far the dual fuel pumps and BAP will take her and then we are throwing a 200-250 wet shot of nitrous (C-16 117 octane race fuel) on her.. looking for 1300-1400 RWHP... Time will tell if this is feasible.

Thanks for the info I was almost set on a TT setup for the 427, but I may be looking more at the procharger when the time comes. I hope they can get your setup to last, I wonder if moving the turbos further back almost like a STS setup would help keep them cool enough to last.

Originally Posted by TurboneticsSL

Turbonetics turbo system is rated for 12-15 hour install by a professional. We've received numerous feedback from shops/installers regarding how clean and easy the install went.

Here's a link to the Camaro turbo system installation instruction:

http://www.turboneticsinc.com/sites/...60203_revA.pdf

I believe we have several Turbonetics-powered Camaro owners on the board. Hopefully they will chime in with their individual experience. The T76 included in the turbo system is a patented ceramic ball bearing unit. It's very durable and offers superb transient response.

Also, keep in mind that there are TWO different Turbonetics turbo systems for the Camaro:

- Complete system that's 50 state legal
- Tuner system that's identical to the "complete system" minus the plugs, injectors, air filter, fuel pump controller, and tuner

The tuner system is ideal if you have (or have plans to) a built motor and/or other power-enhancing upgrades that requires a custom tune. The tuner system costs significantly less, since there are less components included.

Go turbo

FYI - we do not offer an optional powertrain warranty.

Just curious is there a significant difference in power potential between the complete system and the tuner system on a stock LS3, in my area I don't really have to worry about being 50 state legal and there are no smog or emmisions checks.

Originally Posted by AngelSpeedFreak

I installed my maggie in my garage by myself in 1 weekend. install was pretty easy. You should come up to ABQ this weekend for our meet...

I would love too, its been a couple of months since I was up there last, but I have too many projects that I need to work on , I am hopeing to have my 68 completely torn down this weekend so I can send it of to get soda-blasted.

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Now that's good advice. This is a nice inexpensive way to get some power, on a stock bottom end without putting a hole in your pocket.


I wouldn't say that considering there are a lot of stock LS3 motors in the junk yard after having been boosted. Just because there are some successfull boosted builds doesn't mean it's going to be fine in all cases. I'd go further to say most that haven't blown up are on borrowed time or have very modest boost and tunes so not really maximized from a cost benefit basis and realistically those that are maximizing on the benefits of TT or SC's are re-built bottom ends.

It's common knowledge that the LS3 engine is NOT forged and the compression is not adequate for boost. That doesn't mean you can't boost the engine successfully and make some gains, it just means it's not "recommended" on the stock bottom end and if you do you are ultimately responsible if it goes horribly wrong. I'd go further to say that all "honest" performance installers are up front with this even though they could still provide you with 5psi. of boost to get a modest 100hp. fairly safely and put you at ease with some kind of powertrain warranty for a premium.

I agree with JLE58; If OP wants some power now, and not planning to go the forged / stroker route on the LS3, then get a fairly inexpensive NOS kit with some safety gear, and minimal shot and call it a day, until you build your LSX and or forge the LS3 for boost before you throw it in the 68.

All the people with SC's on the stock bottom end LS3 will say get boost, all the folks with boosted and destroyed stock LS3's will give you the same advice I'm providing.

Not to be offensive, but I will never put a nitrous setup on any of my motors again, especially on a stock motor. I have had and seen too many issues with nitrous to be comfortable with it. I have only seen 2 that had catastrophic engine failures with nitrous, one of them was mine personally, but I have pulled apart probably over a dozen that have had noticably excesive wear on cylinders, pistons and piston rings even on motors built for nitrous setups. The motor I had come apart on me was a 355 that had forged internals with H-beam rods, one of the rods actually twisted and came apart, this was just with a 150 shot of nitrous also. To me nitrous just makes a bunch of neat looking paper weights when its all said and done.

[JLE58]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

Now that's good advice. This is a nice inexpensive way to get some power, on a stock bottom end without putting a hole in your pocket.


I wouldn't say that considering there are a lot of stock LS3 motors in the junk yard after having been boosted. Just because there are some successfull boosted builds doesn't mean it's going to be fine in all cases. I'd go further to say most that haven't blown up are on borrowed time or have very modest boost and tunes so not really maximized from a cost benefit basis and realistically those that are maximizing on the benefits of TT or SC's are re-built bottom ends.

It's common knowledge that the LS3 engine is NOT forged and the compression is not adequate for boost. That doesn't mean you can't boost the engine successfully and make some gains, it just means it's not "recommended" on the stock bottom end and if you do you are ultimately responsible if it goes horribly wrong. I'd go further to say that all "honest" performance installers are up front with this even though they could still provide you with 5psi. of boost to get a modest 100hp. fairly safely and put you at ease with some kind of powertrain warranty for a premium.

I agree with JLE58; If OP wants some power now, and not planning to go the forged / stroker route on the LS3, then get a fairly inexpensive NOS kit with some safety gear, and minimal shot and call it a day, until you build your LSX and or forge the LS3 for boost before you throw it in the 68.

All the people with SC's on the stock bottom end LS3 will say get boost, all the folks with boosted and destroyed stock LS3's will give you the same advice I'm providing.

I was talking about at low boost levels the OP is smart enough to know he cant go throwing a ton of boost on this motor.

Its not the boost that kills most of these cars its the TUNE.

nitrous is Def harder on parts. with that said a 100 shot on a ls3 would be nothing the problem is nitrous cars are not as much fun to drive and most people get crazy or greddy and have engine problems. Either way your looking for FI so this doesnt even matter i guess.

I think the Maggie will look better under the hood of the 68.... but a 68 ls3 turbo car would have the cool factory. At stock boost they will both work about the same but if you dont have long tube headers and can take you cats off the turbonetics will make a good bit more power cheaper. The turbonetics will prob take more work to fit right in the 68 I would think.

[cammed06]

To each his own...

Knowing your plans down the road, If you turbo the replacement (LSX 427), I'd consider less cubic inches, like a 408/416 maybe... If you are set on a blower and LSX 427, go with the big bad Whipple 4.999,000 race unit (4.5L)that they make at the time... It'll be sick for race. Want Streetable, get the Whipple 2.9L. Max it out at around 20psi, I think/not confirmed by me, that's 400rwhp, roughly.

One question I have that is killing me: Why even mention a warranty? Who cares about a warranty for the next few thousand miles? Gonna put a LSX in it at 15K miles... At 1013 miles, my ls3 was out, cause it was easier to do the cam swap, whipple install and clutch install as opposed to cam swap and whipple install, in the car, then pulling the tranny to do the clutch...

My plan is a scoggins 427 ls3 type setup for about $5K, good worked heads and cam for the power adder. Those 427 ls3's have been built making over 600 rwhp n/a by several lsx racers... lsx = iron block = heavier car = pissing in the wind, somewhat.

[K1SSRSS]

Originally Posted by cammed06

To each his own...

Knowing your plans down the road, If you turbo the replacement (LSX 427), I'd consider less cubic inches, like a 408/416 maybe... If you are set on a blower and LSX 427, go with the big bad Whipple 4.999,000 race unit (4.5L)that they make at the time... It'll be sick for race. Want Streetable, get the Whipple 2.9L. Max it out at around 20psi, I think/not confirmed by me, that's 400rwhp, roughly.

One question I have that is killing me: Why even mention a warranty? Who cares about a warranty for the next few thousand miles? Gonna put a LSX in it at 15K miles... At 1013 miles, my ls3 was out, cause it was easier to do the cam swap, whipple install and clutch install as opposed to cam swap and whipple install, in the car, then pulling the tranny to do the clutch...

My plan is a scoggins 427 ls3 type setup for about $5K, good worked heads and cam for the power adder. Those 427 ls3's have been built making over 600 rwhp n/a by several lsx racers... lsx = iron block = heavier car = pissing in the wind, somewhat.

The only reason I mentioned the warranty is it sounded like cheap insurance for $200 even if it was for 10-15k miles, but its not offered any more so that is no longer a factor. My ultimate goal is approximately 1000hp with the 427.

[cammed06]

427 ls3 shortblock for $5k'ish, good heads and fi cam = 600 rwhp minimum. 20 psi from a whipple 2.9, or Procharger F1A, = 400 rwhp more, so there's your 1000 rwhp, and don't forget the meth... an aluminum 427 in a camaro is cool!!! A Real ZL1

[JLE58]

a stock sleeve 427 Ls3 is a terrible idea no offense cammed06

[bob2010ss]

I am biased, as I have the 76mm kit, but there is a question

I chose this system because I like the feel of the turbo, I like the stealth effect, like the drivability, but I also like the fact that it is practical for track purposes, I have problems hooking up now at under 600 rwhp
A supercharged 427 wow beautiful but when the car is spinning at the 8th mile it won't make the times, if that is your goal, if having a beautiful rare setup is your goal you have succeeded

[calbert1999]

I haven't had any experience with nitrous, but I've done SC on stock LS3 and personally knowing what I know now I would forge the LS3 before any power adders related to boost in any form. All it takes is some bad gas, mised shift, minor tune issue, or any other number of things and your engine is toast. If your going to boost engine do it right, get it forged and stroked properly then you don't have to worry about it.

[Bad Dad]

Originally Posted by JLE58

a stock sleeve 427 Ls3 is a terrible idea no offense cammed06

ERL LS3 427 stroker dry sleeved ductile iron with cam and whipple etc WCC heads

[Ivan @ Southwest Speed]

Hey Brotha!!

Why don't you PM Andre and ask him how he likes his 429??? Hehehe!!!

Grab a 150 Plate kit like this sweet deal and spray that sucka while you save up for a nice LS3 Based Stroker kit.

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178370

We'll help ya get where you need to go broski!
Ivan

[JLE58]

Originally Posted by Bad Dad

ERL LS3 427 stroker dry sleeved ductile iron with cam and whipple etc WCC heads

Yep that's the only way to do a ls3 427 with good boost send it to someone like erl or red and get some good sleeves nice set up! Like I said there no way I'd run a stock sleeve 427 ls3. Either way the Op goes is a good idea he picked two good kits for nice reliable power on a stock ls3 and would be nice in a 1st gen. I just want to go for a ride when he is done!

[navyblueSS]

Originally Posted by calbert1999

I haven't had any experience with nitrous, but I've done SC on stock LS3 and personally knowing what I know now I would forge the LS3 before any power adders related to boost in any form. All it takes is some bad gas, mised shift, minor tune issue, or any other number of things and your engine is toast. If your going to boost engine do it right, get it forged and stroked properly then you don't have to worry about it.

I agree with a few things you said but I don't think you are giving the LS3 much credit. They are strong motors and will take tons of abuse. Its all in the tune. There are stock bottom end LS1 cars on LS1 Tech being sprayed with 250-300hp shots of nitrous and living. There are many cars on here running 650-700rwhp with no problems. Its better to be forged but not everybody has the funds to do so, especially with the cost of a supercharger or turbo. As long as you stick to conservative boost levels and have a good tune the LS3 will live for many miles.