Header Question

[010 Camaro SS]

I have a L99 - 2SS...Will all headers installed without a tune
throw a code...Can it be taking out with a hand held programmer...

[blazzin1]

All "Long Tube" headers will most likely throw a code without a tune. And Yes, I do believe that most hand-held programmers will reset that code. And as a bonus, they will also void your powertrain warranty!!!

[MarylandSpeed]

Originally Posted by blazzin1

All "Long Tube" headers will most likely throw a code without a tune. And Yes, I do believe that most hand-held programmers will reset that code. And as a bonus, they will also void your powertrain warranty!!!

I have a lot of customers with headers and tunes..yet I have yet to see one who has had their warranty voided. Is it possible? Maybe...but you could also get hit by an asteroid on the way to work.

[blazzin1]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

I have a lot of customers with headers and tunes..yet I have yet to see one who has had their warranty voided. Is it possible? Maybe...but you could also get hit by an asteroid on the way to work.

That's probably because they haven't yet had an engine problem that they needed to go to the dealership to get fixed. The bottom line is...if you tune your ECM in any way, you will more than likely have a very hard time getting a dealer to fix any engine (powertrain) discrepancy under warranty. Is it possible?.... yes, but it really depends on the dealership, and very few of them will touch any powertrain problems under warranty with a car that has been tuned. Call your dealership and ask....I bet I know what they will say!!!

[Moriartii]

@Blazzin- I thought I read somewhere that depending on the LT header and the placement of the o2 bung (how far out of the exhaust stream it sat) determined how likely it would be to throw a code?

Is it too early in the morning for me or did I read that correctly?

Cheers
K

[1985airborne]

Didnt void my warranty...Not until I get the tune....

[blazzin1]

Originally Posted by Moriartii

@Blazzin- I thought I read somewhere that depending on the LT header and the placement of the o2 bung (how far out of the exhaust stream it sat) determined how likely it would be to throw a code?

Is it too early in the morning for me or did I read that correctly?

Cheers
K

If I remember correctly, I think I remember reading about one or two people on this forum that have not thrown a code from Long Tube Headers. It is possible I guess, but extremely rare! And Honestly, I think it's all luck!! Usually, within a few hundred miles of installing Long Tube Headers (without a tune) you will throw a code. I'm no expert though, I'm just referring to what I've read here on the forum.

[blazzin1]

Originally Posted by 1985airborne

Didnt void my warranty...Not until I get the tune....

So, you installed Long Tube Headers, and have not got a tune yet, is that correct? Do you have the "Check Engine" light on your display??? If not, how long ago did you install the headers?

[MarylandSpeed]

No dealership is going to say it is okay to tune the car because they obviously don't want you blowing it up thinking they will fix anything.

Again..I have been doing LSX stuff for a long time, and have sold a lot of headers, and a lot of tuners. I have yet to see someone posting because voided their drivetrain warranty because of headers or a tune. That means...a.) Powertrain failures with these cars are extremely rare (it is a truck motor basically), and b.) even in the rare instances it does happen, the customer is getting their issue resolved well enough they have not went posting publically.

It's your call..but I figure if I mod while in warranty, there is a chance they will fix it. If I wait till it is out of warranty, to mod, there is no chance they will fix it, and the odds are higher for a failure due to added miles.

Originally Posted by blazzin1

That's probably because they haven't yet had an engine problem that they needed to go to the dealership to get fixed. The bottom line is...if you tune your ECM in any way, you will more than likely have a very hard time getting a dealer to fix any engine (powertrain) discrepancy under warranty. Is it possible?.... yes, but it really depends on the dealership, and very few of them will touch any powertrain problems under warranty with a car that has been tuned. Call your dealership and ask....I bet I know what they will say!!!

[fourmz]

I didnt buy the car for the warranty ( which is a joke to begin with) i bouught the car for the same reason most of us did... To have a bad ass car that can turn heads and perk up ears(and has great rwhp / torque) If my powertrain needs repair i would just as soon come out of pocket to fix it.

[blazzin1]

Hey, I'm not trying to argue with anyone here! You (Maryland Speed) are definitely more of an expert than me. All I'm saying is that if anyone installs Long Tube Headers and then gets a tune, don't "expect" to have any powertrain problems covered under warranty. Yes, it may be possible in some rare cases, but don't "expect" it. That's all. I want headers too, believe me, I'm dying for them!!! In fact, I am hoping to give Maryland Speed a call and order some Kooks w/cats, but I am not willing to take the chance just yet on giving away my powertrain warranty. I will try my best to be patient and wait it out....besides that gives me a while to save up some cash so that I don't have to charge it!!!

[KnightRiderSS]

I've got LTs with an offroad midpipe, bung extenders, no tune, and no CEL yet...knock on wood

[wrbear]

Originally Posted by MarylandSpeed

No dealership is going to say it is okay to tune the car because they obviously don't want you blowing it up thinking they will fix anything.

Again..I have been doing LSX stuff for a long time, and have sold a lot of headers, and a lot of tuners. I have yet to see someone posting because voided their drivetrain warranty because of headers or a tune. That means...a.) Powertrain failures with these cars are extremely rare (it is a truck motor basically), and b.) even in the rare instances it does happen, the customer is getting their issue resolved well enough they have not went posting publically.

It's your call..but I figure if I mod while in warranty, there is a chance they will fix it. If I wait till it is out of warranty, to mod, there is no chance they will fix it, and the odds are higher for a failure due to added miles.

I agree with your thoughts except for the:

"the customer is getting their issue resolved well enough they have not went posting publically."

This is an assumtion that should in all fairness be backed up with facts in my opinion especially coming from a sales rep that could influence someone into making a big mistake with a warranty.

[Apex Motorsports]

Regardless of who has or hasn't posted what on an internet forum, here is the GM service bulletin concerning aftermarket performance tunes and their warranty.

Scan_Doc0001.pdf (900.6 KB, 1119 views)
Scan_Doc0002.pdf (882.0 KB, 531 views)
Scan_Doc0003.pdf (893.0 KB, 436 views)
Scan_Doc0004.pdf (436.1 KB, 370 views)

For those not interested in reading the whole thing, here is what the first two paragraphs say:

General Motors is identifying an increasing number of engine, transmission and catalytic
converter part failures that are the result of non-GM (aftermarket) engine and transmission
control calibrations being used.

When alteration to the GM-released engine or transmission control calibrations occurs, it subjects
powertrain and driveline components (engine, transmission, transfer case, driveshaft and rear
axle) to stresses that were not tested by General Motors. It is because of these unknown
stresses, and the potential to alter reliability, durability and emissions performance, that GM has
adopted a policy to cancel any remaining warranty coverage to the powertrain and driveline
components whenever the presence of a non-GM (aftermarket) calibration is confirmed - even if
the non-GM control module calibration is subsequently removed.

My advice is to not get LT headers without a tune and to not get a tune unless you are willing to accept responsibility if you have an issue. Anyone advising otherwise in an official capacity (especially in writing) is leaving themselves open to lawsuit when a customer does have an issue.