WHAT IF.....................................

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

No, this is probably one of the best discussions on the Z/28 subject.

I agree, 100%!!!!!!

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

How many CAN buy a $50,000.+ Camaro?

I see your point, and respect the "more sales is good" mindset...but....Look at it this way: Early on, they placed a sales goal for Camaro in between 80,000 and 100,000 units. That is the magic range to keep the car profitable, and continue producing it. At current levels, the car already is selling at roughly 95,000 units a year. This is without the convertible (expected to bring a healthy chunk of sales itself). So they don't need anymore people buying the car. Therefore, from a business-case standpoint, the Z28 isn't essential to meet their sales goals.

And this is a good point, too:

Originally Posted by djsnoflake

How many people can afford 500GT's?? Not a lot, but those that can afford a car in that price range want one.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

It's $!
I want a Z/28, but don't want the crazy $45,000 - $55,000. price point.
So I'd rather see a reasonable bump in HP (LS/3 480HP crate engine would be fine) instead of an everything thrown in for an outlandish price.
The track/handling capabilities are key for the Z/28 (a more performance Camaro could use it any way), it is a must have.
I don't want to have to buy an SS/1 and pedderize it, put front 6 piston brakes on it, better hugging seats, spoilers/hood scoup, etc.,
WHY? Because even if I put Z/28 badging on it it still is not a Z/28!


shnomac77 back me up

It is difficult to put a "crate motor" into production. The more aggressive cam profile likely impacts the engines ability to meet emissions, fuel economy, noise and vibration requirements. You are now talking nearly an LS7.

The LS3 is 430 HP in the Vette, 426 in our beloved SS Camaro and about that in the G8 GXP. If it were that simple to get it to 480 and not be a guzzler it would be. Yep 480 would be nice.................just not as easy as dropping a crate motor in though.

Essentially what you are describing is a Z06 without the premium materials.

[truth411]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Am I correct in remembering that the engine size of the original Z28 was driven by the race series the Camaro was going to compete in?

I don't think engine size was a GM choice to make a displacement limited car, it was GMs decision to compete in road racing.

So without a race series to limit the engine size or power, why are some of you guys so concerned about having the original cars "limitations"?

Just asking, I am curious, so don't take this as a dig on anyone. This is a great conversation.

PREACH BROTHA!!! Also one key point people tend to forget, is that a fully optioned 69 Z/28, was one of the most expensive versions of the camaro. (those corvette disc brakes were not cheap back then etc...). I expect the next Z/28 to start at about 50k.

[GM4lyfe]

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

If it wants to sell...then yes. Look at the market today, and customer/enthusiast demand. Most of us (magazines included) want something to compete with the GT500...regardless of whether Ford intended to compete with us or not...

What you described could easily be accomplished by a Chevy version of the Mustang's "track pack"...slapping a few body panels, and the Z/28 name on that, at least imo, would be an insult to the status of the model. It's got to be a whole car. And more power doesn't mean it won't be the best handler (like the original Z/28).


You can't count on that. They brought back the Bullit last year...that was a bit of a joke. Perhaps a Boss...but who knows what they'll do with it. And the market is sports coupes...creating a trim all its own (with nothing to sell or compare it against) would be a disaster for marketing:

"Why should I spend $xx,xxx more to buy this?"
"Because it handles better and looks different than an SS."
"Does it go faster?"
"No."
"I can buy a GT500 that handles better** and goes faster for $x,xxx more, which isn't a lot. Good-bye."
-OR-
"I can buy a Mustang GT with a track pack for $xx,xxx less if I want handling. Good-bye."

That's not to say a few people wouldn't buy it (like me ), but it makes selling the car difficult. You want any new car or trim level to be competitive (ideally, class-leading), and unique in this market.


This discussion is actually a good example of a fear I had going into the Camaro as a whole...I was afraid heritage would confine the car (the V6 proved me wrong). I was afraid that engineers/designers would be too busy thinking about 40 years ago to concentrate on today and bring a class-leading car (I was also wrong, thankfully). I fully expect the trend to continue with the Z/28...but I still fear a heritage-confinement of the model.

Still, I want to reiterate that the Z/28 has spent over two full generations as the top-of-the-line Camaro. It spent 3-5 years as the "track Camaro", inferior in terms of speed to the SS (which has already been "botched up" if we're sticking with the 1st-gen formula. And it spent about half a generation as the "entry-level" V8 Camaro...You could make an argument for any one of these routes, because historically, the Z28 has been "that" car.

I hope you don't feel like I'm picking on you, 2cnd chance. You're bringing up very good points, and I've been thinking about this a lot lately.

Originally Posted by radz282003

OH But it can...Drop a huffer on there and tell me you don't use it.

I use it every time I step on the go pedal...If it's there, you will use it and be grining from ear to ear. Trust me.. Giggle, giggle

Are there responsible places to use 550+ horsepower? Not too many that most people go to every day. However, where is a person going to use a car set-up to go around a autoX/road course? What, in the neighborhood around children; on blind freeway on/off ramps? To me, that's not the best arguement, because why do we need an SS or a 304 horsepower V6? Why do we need Camaro when there is the Smart?

We need it because this is America and that's how we roll.

I'm guilty of some of that above. If anyone is near me I give you a taste of what it feels like. You will go home with a starched grin, trust me.

[bolteon593]

Originally Posted by Number 3

Am I correct in remembering that the engine size of the original Z28 was driven by the race series the Camaro was going to compete in?

I don't think engine size was a GM choice to make a displacement limited car, it was GMs decision to compete in road racing.

So without a race series to limit the engine size or power, why are some of you guys so concerned about having the original cars "limitations"?

Just asking, I am curious, so don't take this as a dig on anyone. This is a great conversation.

i too wonder why people refer to the z28 of many days gone by...


the 2010 camaro is a new car... not a dirivative of an older car but a new one. why must we be limited by the old mindset that it has to be cheap and has to be the poor mans vette.


the vette will always weigh much less, and the camaro will always be second best in performance; so why not a gt500 class car that has everything and the sink thrown into it.


i for one would buy it in a heart beat, trade in my 2ss and drive with super-permagrin.

i dont want a stripped down racer, i dont have time to hit the track. i want something i can use every day as a daily driver and smash the go pedal and have some fun.

and yes, you can easily use 550hp on the city streets. something i learned a long time ago is that you can have just as much fun going from 0-speedlimit as you can driving way too fast. all you need is some sticky Z tires and a 6 speed.


(btw, who'd like to see a dual clutch tranny in the z? maybe feroelectric suspension???)

[ShnOmac]

It's starting to look like I am in the minority about what the Z/28 should be..... bummer eh.
Time will tell I guess!

[99-LS1-SS]

I don't have an issue with your vision of what the Z/28 should be but, if it does, in fact, become what you want I'm praying for a ZL1. No offense meant.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by bolteon593

(btw, who'd like to see a dual clutch tranny in the z? maybe feroelectric suspension???)

Any dual-clutch tranny capable of handling all the torque of an LSA, or LS9, would likely cost nearly as much as the engine...:(

BUT -- a BIG +1 to the magnetic suspension system, so long as it's programed for ultra-performance like the ZR1...

Originally Posted by shnomac77

It's starting to look like I am in the minority about what the Z/28 should be..... bummer eh.
Time will tell I guess!

I'm gonna get one even if it costs $100,000, and I have to save up for ten years -- but I WILL have one...

[ShnOmac]

Originally Posted by 99-LS1-SS

I don't have an issue with your vision of what the Z/28 should be but, if it does, in fact, become what you want I'm praying for a ZL1. No offense meant.

No offense taken

I want us all to get what we want... thats why Im hopin for at least 2 performance models

Originally Posted by Dragoneye

I'm gonna get one even if it costs $100,000, and I have to save up for ten years -- but I WILL have one...

Thats one expensive Camaro....

[99-LS1-SS]

I could swing right at $50K but it would have to be a bad mutha for me to take the plunge.

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by Number 3

It is difficult to put a "crate motor" into production. The more aggressive cam profile likely impacts the engines ability to meet emissions, fuel economy, noise and vibration requirements. You are now talking nearly an LS7.

The LS3 is 430 HP in the Vette, 426 in our beloved SS Camaro and about that in the G8 GXP. If it were that simple to get it to 480 and not be a guzzler it would be. Yep 480 would be nice.................just not as easy as dropping a crate motor in though.

Essentially what you are describing is a Z06 without the premium materials.

Yes!
Z06 - premium materials = Z/28 right?
Can I have it for $38,000. - $42,000.?

[2cnd chance]

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

Yes!
Can I have it for $38,000. - $42,000.?

Well can I?

[UsedTaHaveA68]

Corvette has a Z51 handling package, why can't the Camaro have a Z/28 handling package?

Corvette has a ZR-1 supercharged beast-of-a-car package, why can't the Camaro have a ZL-1 supercharged beast-of-a-car package?

I agree they shouldn't concentrate too much on nostalgia, but that sounds pretty in-line with what they're currently doing.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by UsedTaHaveA68

Corvette has a Z51 handling package, why can't the Camaro have a Z/28 handling package?

Because Z/28 is a CAR...not a package. Don't you think that would tarnish such a storied name? I can understand those who want it to be a track car, nix the engineupgrades...but even that is a CAR. The Z51 package consists of bigger rotors, and different springs/shocks/sways...

Maybe there will be a track package for the Camaro...I'd like to hope so!! But that shouldn't be labeled "Z28", imo...