GM Bailout...

[CamaroSkooter]

Originally Posted by Russell James

Traditional bankruptcy would have been a liquidation.... no Camaro for you.

Still vote for that traditional bankruptcy?

Yup, look up Chapter 11 Bankruptcy

[Lou_Dorchen]

Originally Posted by tonyko1

I do feel the current CEO is no car guy and GM's recent successes with cool cars was due to Lutz, a real car guy, who is very political by the way too.

One of GM's complaints about the bailout are the salary caps placed on it. This hurts GM when it comes to recruiting top talent.

[ronss]

Traditional bankruptcy would not have liquidated gm but simply reorganize most likely without the unions, I'll let u all put 2 and 2 together on that one...

[tonyko1]

Thanks Ronss, there are different variations of bankruptcy. Delta Airlines went bankrupt and came back, akin to what AA is going through now. Liquidation is for when nothing is left.

One bunch of folks who really got screwed was the senior bond holders, which got next to nothing.

Somebody stated that now GM has quite the stigma due to the govt bailout. 40yrs ago they were Generous Motors and what was good for GM was good for the USA. Seems the two track each other pretty well.

In the latest news, GM wants to buy outstanding US Govt shares but they won't sell as they would take such a loss in share price. Only time the US govt is worried about saving a buck.

[Russell James]

Originally Posted by ronss

Traditional bankruptcy would not have liquidated gm but simply reorganize most likely without the unions, I'll let u all put 2 and 2 together on that one...

You can only reorganize and continue operations if you have operating capitol. For a large industrial company it takes xxx millions every month in operating capitol just to turn the lights on and function. When the cash on hand approaches zero, and there is no private lending, a reorganization bankruptcy simply won't work. Congrats, you're reorganized.... oops how do you pay the suppliers, employees, utilities....

A bankruptcy judge's first question would have been where is your capitol to continue business. Don't have any. Reorganization bankruptcy denied, go get in the liquidation line.

"Simply reorganize" sounds nice, it's a kabillion times more complicated... but comes down to the basic fact of reorganizing does you zero good with no working capitol. Which is exactly why they reorganized with govt capitol.

[CamaroSkooter]

Chapter 11 isn't only about reorganizing/restructuring.

But you're right, Chapter 11 only works if financing is available. However, I don't think that would have been an issue for GM. And even if it had been, I don't think allowing the government to purchase stocks in the company should ever have been on the table.

But hey, we are where we are now regardless of how we feel it should have been handled.

[ronss]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

Chapter 11 isn't only about reorganizing/restructuring.

But you're right, Chapter 11 only works if financing is available. However, I don't think that would have been an issue for GM. And even if it had been, I don't think allowing the government to purchase stocks in the company should ever have been on the table.

But hey, we are where we are now regardless of how we feel it should have been handled.

I agree, i still,believe they would have come out a lot better without, the Feds messing with it..that's just my opinion , and you know what they said opinions are like a--holes everybody has one...

[Xedes]

Originally Posted by CamaroSkooter

Chapter 11 isn't only about reorganizing/restructuring.

But you're right, Chapter 11 only works if financing is available. However, I don't think that would have been an issue for GM. And even if it had been, I don't think allowing the government to purchase stocks in the company should ever have been on the table.

But hey, we are where we are now regardless of how we feel it should have been handled.

You're overlooking public perception. GM was losing sales because they were in financial trouble and people were worried about them being around long enough to even fix the cars they already had sold. Them filing bankruptcy wouldn't have helped create the idea of stability amongst the general public and sales would have declined even more than they did.

[CamaroSkooter]

But...they still had to file bankruptcy...

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by tonyko1

It wasn't my intent to be political, but I guess it can't be helped. I do feel the current CEO is no car guy and GM's recent successes with cool cars was due to Lutz, a real car guy, who is very political by the way too. Interesting guy, he was in favor of the Camaro and the Volt. If you are .500 in baseball, you go to the All-Star game if not the Hall of Fame.

Actually was not a Volt proponent in the begining. Once he was on board, however, it was his idea. LOL

Keep in mind Lutz gets credit for the Cobalt as much as for the Solstice/Sky. Sadly, though, in business batting .500 doesn't get you much.

He was a LARGE force and was the driver for change in thinking more than he was for change in product at GM.

[AdamZ]

I expect this guy will get a 10 day ban for this like I did right? Without any warning or anything of course. It's only fair. (don't worry you won't)

[driyac]

Originally Posted by AdamZ

I expect this guy will get a 10 day ban for this like I did right? Without any warning or anything of course. It's only fair. (don't worry you won't)

Lol doubtful. These mods seem to do whatever they want.

[PQ]

To stay open it was going to have to come from Gov. Not an investor in the world would have sunk that kind of money into that. (not that it would be a big list who COULD have)

Without the bailouts there would have been a depression that could have approached the great depression in many areas.

Of course WITH the bailouts will now create an even worse one later. But at long as WE are comfy NOW, right?

If you're majoring in arts and entertainment you might want to rethink your direction.

While close to relevance to the site as this topic is, to keep politics out is possible. We have done it before. Short threads though.

[Berean]

As I said in another thread.......


It's funny how the defenders of the bailouts act like every single GM job, and all their supplier jobs, would have been lost if they went into normal bankruptcy.

It's as if all the people who were going to buy cars and trucks would suddenly decide to never buy anything again. Ridiculous.

Sure, there would have been jobs lost. The inefficient parts of the company would have went under. But guess what?

THAT'S EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED ANYWAY WITH THE TAXPAYER BAILOUT. GM STILL LOST 23 THOUSAND JOBS AND CLOSED 13 PLANTS.

You know what the difference is? Government got to pick the winners (UAW) and losers (secured bondholders, salaried employee retirement funds), and THEY USED YOUR TAX MONEY TO DO IT.