ZL1 or Z/28

[AZ Charlie]

Originally Posted by Normagene

Z/28 if your plan is to track the car a lot, like every weekend, and if you're a Pro Driver or trying to become a Pro Driver for a living.

If you're just a novice who likes to track their car once in awhile, then definitely go with the ZL1. Your average guy will get pretty much the same exact numbers every lap no matter which car they are driving.

The only time you will see a slight track time difference is if you are capable of pushing and keeping the car at its limit. You're only as good as your ability, and the average guy isn't better than either of these cars ability.

So with that being said, the ZL1 is going to be much better as a daily driver, more comfortable, AC, and a decent sound system.

I am sorry but you have not obviously driven a ZL1 and a Z/28 to compare. On the track or autocross their is no comparison witht the handling and braking of the Z/28 over the ZL1. Lap times will go to Z/28 all day long. Honestly two completely different cars on the track.

[Normagene]

Originally Posted by AZ Charlie

I am sorry but you have not obviously driven a ZL1 and a Z/28 to compare. On the track or autocross their is no comparison witht the handling and braking of the Z/28 over the ZL1. Lap times will go to Z/28 all day long. Honestly two completely different cars on the track.

Well I can't argue that fact, I have not driven them both. But I have driven my ZL1 and then my husbands C7 vette. His vette should be faster, it is with every pro driver behind the wheel, but I was faster with my ZL1.

I'd guess that's do to the fact that I have more seat time with mine and know my limits with it. I still think an average guy will do almost the same lap times with the ZL1 & the Z/28. Only because of their limit capabilities.

Even if the Z/28 is a better track car it still all comes down the skill level of the drivers. I've seen way too many guys get beat by a pro driver in a car that has no chance of winning, but his skill level makes all the difference.

[KaBoom1701]

Originally Posted by AZ Charlie

I am sorry but you have not obviously driven a ZL1 and a Z/28 to compare. On the track or autocross their is no comparison witht the handling and braking of the Z/28 over the ZL1. Lap times will go to Z/28 all day long. Honestly two completely different cars on the track.

Originally Posted by Normagene

Well I can't argue that fact, I have not driven them both. But I have driven my ZL1 and then my husbands C7 vette. His vette should be faster, it is with every pro driver behind the wheel, but I was faster with my ZL1.

I'd guess that's do to the fact that I have more seat time with mine and know my limits with it. I still think an average guy will do almost the same lap times with the ZL1 & the Z/28. Only because of their limit capabilities.

Even if the Z/28 is a better track car it still all comes down the skill level of the drivers. I've seen way too many guys get beat by a pro driver in a car that has no chance of winning, but his skill level makes all the difference.

You both are right....

I've seen both scenarios but honestly it depends on the track. On small to medium tracks the Z//28 has the advantage due to it's track oriented suspension and superior CC brakes.

On larger tracks with big straights the advantage goes to the more HP ZL1 has it can real in the Z/28 on these straights.

This is all my option as I track my car about 6 times a year here on local tracks in SoCal.

[Normagene]

Originally Posted by KaBoom1701

You both are right....



I've seen both scenarios but honestly it depends on the track. On small to medium tracks the Z//28 has the advantage due to it's track oriented suspension and superior CC brakes.



On larger tracks with big straights the advantage goes to the more HP ZL1 has it can real in the Z/28 on these straights.



This is all my option as I track my car about 6 times a year here on local tracks in SoCal.

Think about it, what percent of ZL1 and Z/28 owners can actually drive the car at it limits?

The average owners, even if they do track the car once or twice a month, will Never Ever even come close to having the skill level needed to keep either one of these machines at its limits.

I'd bet out of all the owners there are less than one percent that can push it to the limit. Funny how people "think" they can really drive, but reality is they're not even coming close to what the cars can actually do. They just don't have the required skill level or even the natural ability.

I tried a few times with everything turned off. Wow, going around the same curve but this time with no nannies on, things go sideways real fast, and by fast I mean 100+mph fast sideways. That gets the heart pounding!

[Can'tHave2MuchHP]

Originally Posted by Normagene

Think about it, what percent of ZL1 and Z/28 owners can actually drive the car at it limits?

The average owners, even if they do track the car once or twice a month, will Never Ever even come close to having the skill level needed to keep either one of these machines at its limits.

I'd bet out of all the owners there are less than one percent that can push it to the limit. Funny how people "think" they can really drive, but reality is they're not even coming close to what the cars can actually do. They just don't have the required skill level or even the natural ability.

I tried a few times with everything turned off. Wow, going around the same curve but this time with no nannies on, things go sideways real fast, and by fast I mean 100+mph fast sideways. That gets the heart pounding!

Not sure about this...If it was an average man or woman that doesn't have much experience driving besides their daily mini-van, then yeah, you're right.

But as a guy that's owned fast cars since my first car which was a Vette, it only takes me a few good laps to get used to muscle cars limits. Obviously if it's an extreme car than forget it, but for a Camaro? I don't care what it is, yes I've never driven a Z28 on a track, but I've driven race cars (Used to race for money in my 20s) that I guarantee are much more car, and I felt like it wasn't THAT bad to get the ZL1 and keep the car at its limits. I drove my friends ZL1 on a track, as well as several C6 Corvettes recently at open track days, pretty easy to get to these cars limits IMO, and I know there's better drivers than me at that very track that were doing no better than I was. Factoring this, a car that's much more track capable than the ZL1 such as the Z28, is easily going to turn better lap times with less effort. You have to realize there's much more going on than Aero and CC brakes with the Z28. The car runs a 305 all around, HUGE ADVANTAGE in turns already (Disadvantage for straights tho). It takes a long time to get used to braking as late as you can safely in a car like this. Z28 is going to have massive amounts of grip, and NO excess body movements. I'd love to drive one and see how much faster it is in the corners than the ZL1s I've driven and own. How could they charge 75,000$ for a car that BARELY edges out the ZL1? They can't. ZL1 only wins in straights compared to the Z28, albeit the ZL1 is a better car for 95% of the people out there IMO. The Z28 can beat many many exotic (200,000$+) cars with ease and embarrass people that have dumped thousands into racing improvements. Short of a roll cage, the Z28 could club race RIGHT OFF THE DEALER LOT.

What you're saying would make a little more sense if it was a Ferrari 599 GTO or a Porche GT3 RS (Both EXAMPLES of cars that have HIGH and dangerously fast limits), but we're talking about a 4200 pound Camaro here (ZL1), it's limits come pretty quick IMO and sure, turn TC off with a 305/315 tire with 580+ HP (Not sure if yours is modded) and stab it like an amateur or be patient and roll into it, either way it will want to lose the rear end, such is physics, especially with muscle cars.

To be honest...with street cars, most of the time the thing holding people back is the fact they want to drive the car home in one piece Food for thought.

[Normagene]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

Not sure about this...If it was an average man or woman that doesn't have much experience driving besides their daily mini-van, then yeah, you're right.

But as a guy that's owned fast cars since my first car which was a Vette, it only takes me a few good laps to get used to muscle cars limits. Obviously if it's an extreme car than forget it, but for a Camaro? I don't care what it is, yes I've never driven a Z28 on a track, but I've driven race cars (Used to race for money in my 20s) that I guarantee are much more car, and I felt like it wasn't THAT bad to get the ZL1 and keep the car at its limits. I drove my friends ZL1 on a track, as well as several C6 Corvettes recently at open track days, pretty easy to get to these cars limits IMO, and I know there's better drivers than me at that very track that were doing no better than I was. Factoring this, a car that's much more track capable than the ZL1 such as the Z28, is easily going to turn better lap times with less effort. You have to realize there's much more going on than Aero and CC brakes with the Z28. The car runs a 305 all around, HUGE ADVANTAGE in turns already (Disadvantage for straights tho). It takes a long time to get used to braking as late as you can safely in a car like this. Z28 is going to have massive amounts of grip, and NO excess body movements. I'd love to drive one and see how much faster it is in the corners than the ZL1s I've driven and own. How could they charge 75,000$ for a car that BARELY edges out the ZL1? They can't. ZL1 only wins in straights compared to the Z28, albeit the ZL1 is a better car for 95% of the people out there IMO. The Z28 can beat many many exotic (200,000$+) cars with ease and embarrass people that have dumped thousands into racing improvements. Short of a roll cage, the Z28 could club race RIGHT OFF THE DEALER LOT.

What you're saying would make a little more sense if it was a Ferrari 599 GTO or a Porche GT3 RS (Both EXAMPLES of cars that have HIGH and dangerously fast limits), but we're talking about a 4200 pound Camaro here (ZL1), it's limits come pretty quick IMO and sure, turn TC off with a 305/315 tire with 580+ HP (Not sure if yours is modded) and stab it like an amateur or be patient and roll into it, either way it will want to lose the rear end, such is physics, especially with muscle cars.

To be honest...with street cars, most of the time the thing holding people back is the fact they want to drive the car home in one piece Food for thought.

Can't disagree with you, although I'll put you in the One Percent category. I still think the other 98% or so of owners just don't have the skill level to put either one to its limit.

Talked with Tiff Needell about something very similar. A novice behind the wheel, placed in the passenger seat and given a few laps, by a pro driver, and told how/when to brake/accelerate/enter/exit turns ect.

Then then the novice gets behind the wheel by themselves. Six laps or so, then various mods are done to the car, such as bigger/sticker tires, more HP, better suspension. Six laps with each of the different mods.

When all said and done, barely even a measurable difference in lap times. You'd think with each mod, which greatly enhanced the cars abilities, but yet no real measurable difference. Some of the laps were slower with mods than the stock laps.

Then the car was put back to stock. This time Tiff got in the passenger seat and verbally shouted instructions. Wow, now the lap times completely blew away all of the previous lap times. No comparison whatsoever.

That's the difference between knowing what to really do. Definitely the Best way to learn is having someone who actually knows how to do it.


When I went around that same high speed curve with everything turned off and started drifting around the curve I luckily didn't panic and featured the throttle enough to stay in control. Boy, those nannies sure do make driving fast a lot easier! She's slightly modded.

[nvydvr]

Uhm... Wow...

[cdb95z28]

I'm late, but to answer your original question>> Z/28

[bkevind]

Tiff? Seems like a cool guy. I miss 5th gear! I like the one where he drank enough to get buzzed then ran some hot laps. A bit of an alien I think

This thread makes me think of the Porsche 99x Turbo vs. GT3. The Turbo is simply awesome, is more street oriented but can run some fast laps. The GT3 is track focused madness.

Mod the Turbo, crank up the boost, throw money at the suspension, hoosiers, sure it will be a beast. But ... it was built for a purpose, and it does it well. Same with the GT3. Same with the ZL1 vs. Z/28.

I want one of each. It's hard to believe a 2 ton car can do what these can do.

[cal45]

As I don't need a track car, I went with the better daily driver with more power for the street.

.

[Stormcloak]

Originally Posted by Can'tHave2MuchHP

To be honest...with street cars, most of the time the thing holding people back is the fact they want to drive the car home in one piece Food for thought.

I have no problems attesting to that one

[KaBoom1701]

Originally Posted by Stormcloak

I have no problems attesting to that one

Agreed. I drive around the 8/10's or 9/10's mark for this reason alone.

If that means I'm a few secs slower around the track on race day I'm cool with that.

I enjoy turning up my radio and turning on my A/C and pushing the "Tour" PTM mode and driving home in comfort and style.

[Normagene]

Originally Posted by cal45

As I don't need a track car, I went with the better daily driver with more power for the street.

.

Ya, I'd have to think more Z/28 buyers are likely to actually track their cars. Like to see a somewhat real number/stat as to how many owners really do track their cars. It must be a small percentage.

The two cars the OP is considering, a 13 ZL1 with 5K sounds like a Garage Queen, and a 15 Z/28 with only 500, boy oh boy, that's not even broken-in. So it's unlikely either was ever pushed hard.

So what will happen when the New 2017 ZL1 hits the track??? It's hard to believe the Z/28 lap times will hold up. This thing is going to be a Beast of a Machine! 650HP

Even if the Z/28 is solely designed as a track machine, that new ZL1 will catch and surpass it in every straight, and it possibly will be faster in the turns as well. Can't wait to test drive one!

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Normagene

Ya, I'd have to think more Z/28 buyers are likely to actually track their cars. Like to see a somewhat real number/stat as to how many owners really do track their cars. It must be a small percentage.

The two cars the OP is considering, a 13 ZL1 with 5K sounds like a Garage Queen, and a 15 Z/28 with only 500, boy oh boy, that's not even broken-in. So it's unlikely either was ever pushed hard.

So what will happen when the New 2017 ZL1 hits the track??? It's hard to believe the Z/28 lap times will hold up. This thing is going to be a Beast of a Machine! 650HP

Even if the Z/28 is solely designed as a track machine, that new ZL1 will catch and surpass it in every straight, and it possibly will be faster in the turns as well. Can't wait to test drive one!

There is a price difference between the new ZL1 and the previously owned Z/28 of about $20,000 round numbers. I think I know guiy that ofr $20K could have the Z/28 running faster than the ZL1