2010 Camaro 1SS LS3 M6 won't spin tires

[Bo White]

I think what they are getting at is rolling out and after the clutch is out stabbing throttle and trying to blow the tires off. My car wont do it on clean asphault nor my buddys SS. If I sidestep the clutch with any rpm yeah, Ill blow the tires off the rims until the cows come home.

[FastRaceCars]

Originally Posted by mikeyroche

I have pretty much stock except exhaust and CAI... I have the stock run flat Pirelli's and like many others if you take off traction control only and dump the clutch this car will literally roast the tires like the poster who included a picture of his tires. I'm not sure why you can't...

Well...if I dump the clutch at high enough rpm, I can roast them, but I can roast tires on anything by dumping the clutch. It's way too hard on the drivetrain to do it that way. I'd prefer to be able to spin them from a rolling start just using engine power, at least that's what my goal is. There are lots of members on the forum that claim their cars do this, so I'm just trying to make sure my car isn't underpowered for some unknown reason.

[BubbaSS]

Originally Posted by FastRaceCars

Well...if I dump the clutch at high enough rpm, I can roast them, but I can roast tires on anything by dumping the clutch. It's way too hard on the drivetrain to do it that way. I'd prefer to be able to spin them from a rolling start just using engine power, at least that's what my goal is. There are lots of members on the forum that claim their cars do this, so I'm just trying to make sure my car isn't underpowered for some unknown reason.

I knew that's what you meant from the get go which is why I said rear gears

[MikeOD]

Originally Posted by FastRaceCars

Currently, I have a RotoFab CAI, skipshift-eliminator, Magnaflow Axle-Back Competition (aka muffler delete), 160 thermostat, and self-tuned with HPTuners. Car is 2010 Camaro 1SS with 6-speed manual. Even before any of the mods, I always felt like the car was a little weak for 420+ HP, but at the same time, it does seem to get up and go pretty well, so I had assumed it was normal for a 3800lb car.

I'm not an expert tuner, but I did read a bunch on several forums and hptuners website. I did some basic changes like improving PE rate, delay, and AFRs. Experimented with high octane table ignition timing advance. What I discovered is that I can't go much over 20 degrees at WOT above 4000 RPM without "knock retard" pulling a little timing back out. As a drag racer running small block chevy engines, we always run around 38-40 degrees, so 20 degrees on a 11:1 motor seems ridiculously low to me. In fact, even with the factory tune settings, I see the knock retard sometimes kicking in a degree or so. That being said, I had tried adding fuel in those areas to confirm it was false knock. (BTW, I run 93/94 octane and tried adding AMSOIL Octane Boost as well). At this point, I'm pretty convinced it is false knock and the knock sensors are too sensitive. I've also increased the knock decay rate so that when the knock stops, the timing will climb back up a little quicker.

I can't remember at the moment if I disabled the engine torque management completely or not, but this car will barely break traction in 1st gear on dry roads with or without traction control/stability control. Obviously, I can drop the clutch at 3500+ rpm and make it spin, but after reading a bunch on the forum today, it seems I should be able to simply roll into the throttle in 1st gear and spin pretty easily. Even my old 1996 V6 Camaro would almost do that.

I was reading about the "fuse pull" trick today, but since I have HPTuners, I'm not sure if this still applies since I can reflash the computer at will. It does seem to have the rough idle behavior that others mentioned. My fuel economy averages 18MPG, which is mostly 20-50mph driving. On highway, I still only see about 21-22.

Anyone have any thoughts? I tried to read the forum all day, but I'm sure I've missed some valuable threads/posts.

Send me your tune, I'll take a look at it. Also, check out what GM did to the 2012 LS3 Camaro knock control...there are some changes. I've also taken some hints from the LS3 in the C6's for a few spark advance changes, that have all been beneficial in my car.

Originally Posted by BubbaSS

If you decide to stay N/A, You'll want rear end gears...4.11 or 4.33...This car's gear ratio is too high (3.45 stock) and hinders low end torque terribly.

I wouldn't say it hinders torque terribly...my car still feels ballsy at low RPM, but I agree, I want 4.10/4.11 in my car.

Originally Posted by Juiced1

Big 20" rims with sticky tires won't really let you roast the tires from a roll.

When I still had stock tires, I'd have to lift completely to get some weight to transfer forward, then snap the throttle down fast to get it to spin them...and it wouldn't "blow the tires off"...it'd get a little squirrely and hook...these are heavy cars on heavy wheels/tires, and they like to hook. I think a lot of people define blowing the tires off differently than I do...if you're not putting down 4-5 car lengths of black stripes...you're not blowing the tires off.

Originally Posted by speedmon

Its you tune....hombreito.

I have a "less powerful" L99 tuned and with Traction control on it'll spin the tires in first and second now......its like there's a beast within.

Apples to oranges...you've got a tremendously different first gear...and if your traction control is allowing it to spin through the brakes, it's going to hurt them...it should be closing the throttle and pulling spark to avoid that...in the tune, allow TC to do it's thing...in the drivers seat, turn TC off when you want TC off.

Originally Posted by Bad70supreme

With those mods yes rolling down the street and punching the gas should result in some tire spin without a clutch dump, add a cam and first gear is useless on the street!

As I said earlier...mine when it did 425 to the tires...spun a little, but nothing insane...had to kick the clutch for a real burnout...but when doing that, it REALLY burned out.

Originally Posted by SGOS252382

It's funny how people want to spin their tires (I get it all the time from stock L99 owners).
Then once they get a little more modded, they'll be buying new wheels and drag radials to control excessive wheel spin on the street.

If your spinning, you aint winning.

I'm pushing 500rwhp, and driving around on Nitto's, and my car will dead hook in first...I love it.

[Bo White]

Agreed. Blowing the tires off means spinning tilll you have to grab the next gear.

[justa25thTA]

Originally Posted by mikeyroche

I have pretty much stock except exhaust and CAI... I have the stock run flat Pirelli's and like many others if you take off traction control only and dump the clutch this car will literally roast the tires like the poster who included a picture of his tires. I'm not sure why you can't...

really?

[MikeOD]

Originally Posted by mikeyroche

I have pretty much stock except exhaust and CAI... I have the stock run flat Pirelli's and like many others if you take off traction control only and dump the clutch this car will literally roast the tires like the poster who included a picture of his tires. I'm not sure why you can't...

He's asking about not dumping the clutch...plus most of them will wheel hop BAD if you do that in first...you want a real burnout, turn off TC and Stability Control, put it in second (or third if you're brave) put your right foot on the floor, and dump the clutch right before you hit the rev limiter...be ready to steer.

Originally Posted by justa25thTA

really?

Yes, stock tires are run flats...I felt really bad for the tire guys that have to take them off...the sidewalls feel like iron.

Originally Posted by Bo White

Agreed. Blowing the tires off means spinning tilll you have to grab the next gear.

Exactly...my 4th gen was like that...totally different car/weight/suspension/wheel/tire...if that car started spinning in first, it'd smash the limter, I'd grab second, and it'd keep spinning. That's not happening in this car.

[caper]

OT - stock tires arent run flats...mine werent.

[Bo White]

When I bought my gxp I thought mine were too since I don't have a factory spare but mine are not.

[NDC123]

You have to hold the TC down for 8 secs to turn it completely off?

[BubbaSS]

Hey MikeOD, you have 500 hp at the wheels so the 3.45's should be okay for you, but guys closer to stock will appreciate the shorter gears. If you end up getting 4.10/4.11 with those 500 horses you won't be able to touch the gas without losing traction lol

[Tampa Tuning]

Originally Posted by speedmon

Its you tune....hombreito.

Tampa tuning can provide a good HP baseline and give pretty good feedback on the data logs......saves booqoo time.....the config file on my car is flipping 5Meg......nobody can learn that in a vaccuum.

isnt it great when the car can make you smile

[FastRaceCars]

According to this, they ran 24 degrees of timing on a supercharged LS3 with 8-9lbs of boost, although it doesn't specify the fuel used. However, they also say further down on the page:

"Octane to support boost or timing? 3/4 octane per degree and 1.5 octane per PSI. More data on Jim Bell’s Supercharged/ Turbocharged Performance Guide http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Commo...tVariables.pdf
At KB , we set timing at 18° and boost at 9psi for 91 octane. 93 octane allows another 2psi or 2 – 3° spark but NOT both. Higher ECT, IAT and ambient temps will retard spark via the ECM and protect the engine from harmful detonation."


This tells me that the knock sensors are way too sensitive, at least on my car. My 05 Silverado with LQ4 6.0L engine runs fine with no knock at 32+ degrees of timing. The LS3 is not that "special" when it comes to AFR's and ignition advance. Sure it has a little more compression, but should still safely tolerate 26-28 degrees of timing without knock on 93 octane, especially with 12.5:1 or richer AFRs.

[MikeOD]

Originally Posted by BubbaSS

Hey MikeOD, you have 500 hp at the wheels so the 3.45's should be okay for you, but guys closer to stock will appreciate the shorter gears. If you end up getting 4.10/4.11 with those 500 horses you won't be able to touch the gas without losing traction lol

No way man...my car needs 4.10/4.11 bad. A car with this much power should absolutely be going through the traps well into 4th gear...not shifting 15 feet before them. Learning how to control the traction is all part of the game...and besides, burnouts are fun