Beware of Las Vegas performance shop!!

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by PoorMansCamaro

I went to LEP shortly after i bought my car. I talked to the owner about F/I on my car. I also talked to him about buying some bolt-ons. He just didn't seem interested in my business. Not only that, but he also talked down about another business in town that i told him about that was interested in building me a custom turbo. Since then i've heard these kinds of stories, and i'm glad i didn't pursue his business.

Let me know if you want to still build a turbo setup

[Mr.LSX]

FYI A little info was left out. Now just an attempt to slander. Brandon from the begining was told after 11 months of abuse, we would still fix the motor.

Engine was built and finished 10/2009. Several 1/4 mile passes and freeway roll ons. DD every other day.
Car has been 10.3x's@over 135mph on a small 150 shot. (Tune was dead on.)
Car currently had the motor tune (30+ degrees of timing) in it not a NOS tune. If it was sprayed on that tune it would explain the detonation issue???
Engine machineing and clearances was checked by another professional engine shop and was perfect other than the huge amount of detonation damage to the pistons and rings. Even the bearings and head gaskets were perfect. The tune is the same tune that has been in the car from the begining. Tunes do not change.(We created two tunes for the customer Motor & NOS). If the car was sprayed with the current motor tune that was in the car and not the NOS tune it would certainly have caused this damage. The pistons are forged 2618 Diamonds with a Diamond ring pack. Still plenty of piston and ring for a tuned 150 shot.

It would have never broke ring lands/rings like this on a motor pass. A lean issue would not break rings and ring lands. This damage is from Detonation Period. You told me yourself the last time you sprayed the car was in Feburary. Now it blows up on the motor??? 8+ months later???

I told you we would take care of the R&R and check out the engine to determine if it was a motor machining/assembly issue or a parts failure. You were not willing to wait 2-3 weeks for an appointment. I had been on the phone with you for hours on hours trying to help with this issue. I told you from the beginning I would work with you on the repair, and you chose to take it into your own hands. Ring gaps were perfect as well...


I also think we should still send a piston and ring back to Diamond (not a phone call). Let them inspect the cause of failure.
Please post up the invoice from HBR racing engines (who you chose to take the engine to), regarding the engine inspection and his professioinal opinion on what caused your failure.


Our doors are always open to you.


Garth
LEP

PS: You were never told this motor would handle a 400 shot. You should not of sprayed the car on the motor tune..

[QuikZ06]

Good thing you can edit Garth. by the way, read the forum you are in...not "slander"/ libel.....this is the Vendor and Seller review / feedback / experiences forum and yes I can have facts and my experience of your "quality" work.

Check this out everyone.

http://www.desertmusclelv.net/index....wtopic=2189&hl=

This will be a read for all that want to know the whole story.

Car was sprayed 7 times. That is not spraying the crap out of it last time I checked.

Bearings did not check out fine either. Top ring was down only .180 and this was supposed to be built for a 400 shot, top ring should have been .300 down.

Ring gaps were checked by many people.......they had some butting.

You never said you would take care of anything... only quoted me 3-4K to fix it with me helping to wrench on the car.

By the way, I talked with Diamond pistons, they do not need the pistons, he saw the pictures and can tell the rings never seated and had I sprayed it would have melted the crowns of all the tops of the pistons. There is no melting. There you have it. Diamond also explained those pistons, rings, and pin set was wrong for my application.

I did wait exactly 3 weeks (21 days) and took it to another shop when you failed to get the car in when you said you would.

Thanks and have a nice day.

[Tooblue]

Brandon,, You have started many threads and one thing that seems to be common is "Garth has offered" Bring the motor/car to work something out.. I am sooooo confused on what your attempting to accomplish with all of these threads when the Builder of this motor has offered " Bring him the motor / car" ..
Roger,,
Another thread to read and it has a bunch of comments...

http://173.201.39.105/forums/showthr...ge+performance

[Mr.LSX]

Originally Posted by QuikZ06

Good thing you can edit Garth. by the way, read the forum you are in...not "slander"/ libel.....this is the Vendor and Seller review / feedback / experiences forum and yes I can have facts and my experience of your "quality" work.

Check this out everyone.

http://www.desertmusclelv.net/index....wtopic=2189&hl=

This will be a read for all that want to know the whole story.

Car was sprayed 7 times. That is not spraying the crap out of it last time I checked.

Bearings did not check out fine either. Top ring was down only .180 and this was supposed to be built for a 400 shot, top ring should have been .300 down.

Ring gaps were checked by many people.......they had some butting.

You never said you would take care of anything... only quoted me 3-4K to fix it with me helping to wrench on the car.

By the way, I talked with Diamond pistons, they do not need the pistons, he saw the pictures and can tell the rings never seated and had I sprayed it would have melted the crowns of all the tops of the pistons. There is no melting. There you have it. Diamond also explained those pistons, rings, and pin set was wrong for my application.

I did wait exactly 3 weeks (21 days) and took it to another shop when you failed to get the car in when you said you would.

Thanks and have a nice day.

So the car made 490whp on motor from the begining and ran perfect on the Nitrous for 11 months on non-seated rings??. You know as well as I do the quote of $3-4K was if everything was damaged including the block and we needed to start with all new parts. I told you at that time I could not give you a exact price till we got the motor apart. Also the car has been checked more than once when changing your spark plugs the with leak down checks and always checked out perfect(engine would leak down with un-seated rings).

If you called Diamond and told them you were wanting to spray 400+ on that piston, of coarse they were not the right piston.Look at your invoice. I never sold you or told you were getting a custom Diamond piston that would handle 400 on a hit. One more note. The ring gaps were 0.25 top and 0.28 second. I highly doubt they ever butted on a 150 shot. From the begining I asked you to send a fuel sample a oil sample and send back the pistons and rings. Have you done any of those requested?
I back all of my builds as I did this one until YOU were not willing to work with me. It is unfortunate that you have spent all of this energy trying to slander me unstead of letting us work with you and fix the issue's. Oh well.
Bradon it was unfortunate that your motor let go because of your mistake, however if you would of brought it back to me, you would of been back on the road by now.
Please contact me if you would like to discuss face to face.


Good luck.

Garth
LEP

[Tooblue]

Did a little video searchin on LEP and and this C5. On Youtube there are many videos available but these seem very interesting..
This is a really hard running C5 !! 10.3x @ 13x mph ,
(video also has other cars that are LEP cars from what I understand)

Roger,,

[QuikZ06]

Originally Posted by Tooblue

Brandon,, You have started many threads and one thing that seems to be common is "Garth has offered" Bring the motor/car to work something out.. I am sooooo confused on what your attempting to accomplish with all of these threads when the Builder of this motor has offered " Bring him the motor / car" ..
Roger,,
Another thread to read and it has a bunch of comments...

http://173.201.39.105/forums/showthr...ge+performance

Garth never offered until later on and the offer was 3-4K to fix. Know the story because you don't. Do you really want me to post all the threads I have out there? Wow, one forums is on Garths's side out of about 15-20. Good luck finding them all.

[QuikZ06]

Originally Posted by Mr.LSX

So the car made 490whp on motor from the begining and ran perfect on the Nitrous for 11 months on non-seated rings??. You know as well as I do the quote of $3-4K was if everything was damaged including the block and we needed to start with all new parts. I told you at that time I could not give you a exact price till we got the motor apart. Also the car has been checked more than once when changing your spark plugs the with leak down checks and always checked out perfect(engine would leak down with un-seated rings).

If you called Diamond and told them you were wanting to spray 400+ on that piston, of coarse they were not the right piston.Look at your invoice. I never sold you or told you were getting a custom Diamond piston that would handle 400 on a hit. One more note. The ring gaps were 0.25 top and 0.28 second. I highly doubt they ever butted on a 150 shot. From the begining I asked you to send a fuel sample a oil sample and send back the pistons and rings. Have you done any of those requested?
I back all of my builds as I did this one until YOU were not willing to work with me. It is unfortunate that you have spent all of this energy trying to slander me unstead of letting us work with you and fix the issue's. Oh well.
Bradon it was unfortunate that your motor let go because of your mistake, however if you would of brought it back to me, you would of been back on the road by now.
Please contact me if you would like to discuss face to face.


Good luck.

Garth
LEP

Garth, you know, I know and many other people know your practices. You ripped me off and I will not let you touch my car ever again. Plain and simple. We all know you did not do a leak down on my car either. No bill, no leak down numbers......no leak down. Nice try. Nothing to discuss with you, you know what I want and your shop will not be working on it. I did not tell Diamond anything, they knew all about what was going on and contacted me. I also know I would not be back up and running.....who would tune the car? I would only want your best tech and tuner to work on it and he has left to another shop. Thanks though.

[QuikZ06]

Originally Posted by Tooblue

Did a little video searchin on LEP and and this C5. On Youtube there are many videos available but these seem very interesting..
This is a really hard running C5 !! 10.3x @ 13x mph ,
(video also has other cars that are LEP cars from what I understand)

Roger,,

Thanks for posting these videos. The first one was with the LEP motor in it at about 2K miles. The second video is my head/cam stock bottom that took more abuse than LEP's built 383. The stock bottom also lasted 33K miles and was still good when it was pulled. 7K miles on a built motor that saw the track 2-3 times is rediculous. LOL Thanks for the post.

[Mr.LSX]

Just as I thought. You avoided all my questions in the above post. 10.30's on a non-seated engine?

I am finished here.

PS: Let us know when you get er running and I can tune it for you..

[QuikZ06]

Originally Posted by Mr.LSX

Just as I thought. You avoided all my questions in the above post. 10.30's on a non-seated engine?

I am finished here.

PS: Let us know when you get er running and I can tune it for you..

Why should I answer your questions? Most of your posts are lies and you have got caught on many other boards contradicting yourself. We have not come to an agreement and we have been through this already on many boards. Yes, according to many people and diamond pistons themselves the rings never seated.

You tune it.....LMAO. I want to go faster not run worse than stock times.

[TPEHater]

Brandon,

Garth has brought up several times that your car made good power and ran good times and has used that as reasoning for the rings not seating being untrue. Well, this shows how little he knows about building an engine.

There are several issues to address on this motor, lets explain how the car can make 490 RWHP N/A, run 10.30's, and be assembled improperly.

First - the issues at hand. Excessive crank case pressure, oil consumption, smoking, and a lifted ringland.

Now that we know what we are looking for lets look at how non seating rings (as verified by Diamond Racing Pistons as well as 3 other local engine builders) can cause ALL of these issues.

When a motor is fired for the first time the rings are not seated. The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to seat. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run. The ring exerts maybe 5-10 lbs of spring tension against the cylinder wall at idle and cruise, you need the gas pressures of WOT to seal the combustion pressure as well as possible. Running the motor easy for a few hundred miles early in it's life is the worst thing you can do! I am fairly confident that this engine was NOT broken in at WOT.

Enter the domino effect...

If the rings have not seated properly then they are failing to hold compression, they are failing to scrape oil from the cylinder walls, they are not doing their job.

Failing to scrape oil from the cylinder walls will lead to oil in the combustion chamber. This can lead to smoking (this engine did smoke heavily) along with detonation (this engine had a problem with). But how does oil cause detonation? Oil itself has a very low octane rating and when mixed with fuel can substantially lower your overall octane rating. More importantly though oil when ignited in the cylinder leads to carbon buildup on the valves which will in turn guarantee detonation. Detonation has been blamed by the engine builder as the cause for the piston failure.

Ok, but what about the crank case pressure and the car running like a raped ape?

On the compression stroke the engine is going to compress air in the cylinder and if the rings do not seal guess where the pressure goes? Yep right into the crank case. The PCV system is designed to work on a controlled vacuum so any pressure at all is not good. The pressure is going to try to find its way out any where it can which means running excessive breathers (which this car had to do) or blowing out the dipstick. What’s worse, remember that last paragraph about oil consumption? Well on decel you now have zero air entering the engine and it creates an excessive vacuum on the crank case, potentially sucking MORE oil into the cylinder causing more burning and buildup, leading to further detonation.

How then, can a car have all these issues and still make strong power and perform at WOT? To understand this you need to go back up to the paragraph about seating rings. At idle and cruise the rings are not sealing however at WOT the gas pressures seal the combustion pressure against the rings so as long as you are at WOT you have mostly seated rings. They would certainly seat enough to make 490 RWHP on a car that should have made 5teens.

There you have it!

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by TPEHater

Brandon,

Garth has brought up several times that your car made good power and ran good times and has used that as reasoning for the rings not seating being untrue. Well, this shows how little he knows about building an engine.

There are several issues to address on this motor, lets explain how the car can make 490 RWHP N/A, run 10.30's, and be assembled improperly.

First - the issues at hand. Excessive crank case pressure, oil consumption, smoking, and a lifted ringland.

Now that we know what we are looking for lets look at how non seating rings (as verified by Diamond Racing Pistons as well as 3 other local engine builders) can cause ALL of these issues.

When a motor is fired for the first time the rings are not seated. The honed crosshatch pattern in the cylinder bore acts like a file to allow the rings to seat. The rings quickly wear down the "peaks" of this roughness, regardless of how hard the engine is run. The ring exerts maybe 5-10 lbs of spring tension against the cylinder wall at idle and cruise, you need the gas pressures of WOT to seal the combustion pressure as well as possible. Running the motor easy for a few hundred miles early in it's life is the worst thing you can do! I am fairly confident that this engine was NOT broken in at WOT.

Enter the domino effect...

If the rings have not seated properly then they are failing to hold compression, they are failing to scrape oil from the cylinder walls, they are not doing their job.

Failing to scrape oil from the cylinder walls will lead to oil in the combustion chamber. This can lead to smoking (this engine did smoke heavily) along with detonation (this engine had a problem with). But how does oil cause detonation? Oil itself has a very low octane rating and when mixed with fuel can substantially lower your overall octane rating. More importantly though oil when ignited in the cylinder leads to carbon buildup on the valves which will in turn guarantee detonation. Detonation has been blamed by the engine builder as the cause for the piston failure.

Ok, but what about the crank case pressure and the car running like a raped ape?

On the compression stroke the engine is going to compress air in the cylinder and if the rings do not seal guess where the pressure goes? Yep right into the crank case. The PCV system is designed to work on a controlled vacuum so any pressure at all is not good. The pressure is going to try to find its way out any where it can which means running excessive breathers (which this car had to do) or blowing out the dipstick. What’s worse, remember that last paragraph about oil consumption? Well on decel you now have zero air entering the engine and it creates an excessive vacuum on the crank case, potentially sucking MORE oil into the cylinder causing more burning and buildup, leading to further detonation.

How then, can a car have all these issues and still make strong power and perform at WOT? To understand this you need to go back up to the paragraph about seating rings. At idle and cruise the rings are not sealing however at WOT the gas pressures seal the combustion pressure against the rings so as long as you are at WOT you have mostly seated rings. They would certainly seat enough to make 490 RWHP on a car that should have made 5teens.

There you have it!

This is very well explained hat's off to you.

Still a shame to see the he said she said garbage going on all over the place. I think the issue is out there and every shop has it's good's and bad's you can't make everyone happy. However. The way that this whole thing has unrolled, I think that the whole point of all the threads was to make people aware of what happened. Now that both sides have had their chance to say what's up it's over and done with.

I hope to see Brandon's car get running again with all the issues worked out. As far as the tune goes. I wouldn't change a thing if all you do is repair the damage to the engine.