Big brother watching...State Farm

[goinggone14]

Originally Posted by JacekPSUr1

goinggone14

^ I obviously know this is just an option to save money, and that they're not pulling my data without asking first, but there is a huge difference between them already utilizing their actuarial analysts to predict probabilities of accidents, etc. vs. State Farm pulling my car's direct data based on how I drive. I know this is my decision and I'm not asking for anyone to make it for me. It's an interesting subject and it's just a matter of having a discussion.

A discussion is, "What do you think about State Farm having the ability to monitor my driving if I give them permission?"

A witch hunt is, "Big Brother watching... State Farm" as a thread topic.

[goinggone14]

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

Having publicly traded status means absolutely nothing.

Sure it does, maybe you should look up what the "Big Brother" concept is defined as, rather than the erroneous public opinion tagged to anything anyone considers "unfair". Certainly wouldn't apply to a company that doesn't even have autonomous control over it's own actions (shareholder control).

Originally Posted by Evergreen6

Forget "Big Brother" for a moment. How do you define "for Insurance Purposes"?

Regardless of how you do, the goal of an insurance company is to make money by collecting premiums which are bet against chance. Most auto insurance companies exist as arms of larger financial entities that invest premiums to make additional money, also based in chance.

If you think insurance companies exist to cover your ass, that's only their duty to YOU. It's secondary to their fiduciary duties, which is to make money, and turn profits.

What do you think they're eventually going to do with this data? Why would they even be interested in it? So they can better control their costs (i.e. claim payouts) and charge higher premiums where they can pinpoint more risk.

The agreement right now is receive a 5% discount, but if you read the terms of the agreement, they are subject to change and State Farm holds the upper hand. The data they are collecting is likely worth substantially more to them in terms of designing future "pay per risk/incident" products, or more ways to spend less and charge you more.

I don't buy into "Big Brother" tinfoil hat type stuff, but I'm not going to help out a financial corporation by giving them data they don't need, with the likelihood that they could use it against in the form of policy premiums later on.

The data usage goes both ways - if you're a better driver than most, you would expect a better rate than most. If you're worse than you have a right to be concerned.

The only person who sees anything wrong with this is the one that knows they're getting the short end of the deal due to their poor driving ability. For everyone else, it's an opportunity to save money by proving that you mitigate risks, and giving the company the ability to build that into their statistical value of your driving.

In reality, do you think the insurance rates should average good drivers with bad drivers without any method of recourse? Bad drivers are costing good drivers money without a tool like this, there's no two ways about it.

[goinggone14]

Originally Posted by PalmerGA

Oh yes they do! But it is OnStar that started this... not the insurance companies. You don't think "how you drive" relates to "probability of accident"? I like to take my car out to the wide open country now and then and, well - open her up. You don't think OnStar can know when I do 130 or so down a country road? And they wouldn't report that to my insurance company (for a fee, of course)?

Like you, I don't care for the "Big Brother" paranoia. But Orwell had great foresight, and it is happening more and more just as he predicted/warned.

I think this may have been misleading on my part - I mean they don't care about your driving as an individual because you mean nothing to them. You're a number. They care about how much money your driving costs.

They know some people are bad/good drivers, and they want to charge you accordingly rather than guessing using an averaging algorithm for everyone.

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by nikitis

I spoke with my State Farm Rep. She said offered me this deal, but then said (I wouldn't do it). It would cost you more in the long run. She told me how but I forget the details. . . Wish I paid more attention.

I do work in I.T. and let me tell you, if the data is there, it WILL be used to manipulate your lives. When things start costing more, you will know why. I didn't want it for the tracking purposes.

She also said that this will probably one day become the law to have to use one of these.

State Farm is a bank. Don't be fooled. They offer bank accounts. Ask them about it.

When you go over 80 MPH they are going to see it as you taking risks. Not you casually driving on the interstate in a 75 MPH road. When you take it to the drag strip, they won't see it as you drag racing legally. It will affect you more in the long run. Don't do it, and boycott these methods. Tell your reps you do not like these tactics and that you better not see this become mandatory. Let them know!

I do not think any thing like this will ever be law. Conspiracy theory folks have been into that belief ever since OBD2 was on GM cars and probably before that. If you like to play, say no to this deal, the Allstate, and the progressive deal. Stop worrying about the little shit.

[SSJ455]

Big brother is watching!!!!! Just to be safe wrap your car in tin foil. They can't track you that way.

[Evergreen6]

Originally Posted by goinggone14

The data usage goes both ways - if you're a better driver than most, you would expect a better rate than most. If you're worse than you have a right to be concerned.

The only person who sees anything wrong with this is the one that knows they're getting the short end of the deal due to their poor driving ability. For everyone else, it's an opportunity to save money by proving that you mitigate risks, and giving the company the ability to build that into their statistical value of your driving.

In reality, do you think the insurance rates should average good drivers with bad drivers without any method of recourse? Bad drivers are costing good drivers money without a tool like this, there's no two ways about it.

The problem is, the "data usage" only goes "my way" by 5% of my premium in this case. For $30/year State Farm can shove it up their ass given the potential future drawbacks. I'd be more interested if I could lower my premium by 50%.

Insurance companies already punish people who frequently get into accidents with accident surcharges or rate hikes in general. They also punish based on age. In my own case, I was probably a safer driver when I was a kid, in general. I certainly didn't drive as much, when it snowed, I stayed home (wasn't getting up to go to a job on severe weather days) yet I paid 3x the premium, for about a quarter of the insurance coverage.

I don't understand the sympathies to private business in this case. In fact, if they knew how horrible people actually drove, in general, that would be a profit center, charging based on that data alone.

[Rocky1974]

Originally Posted by JacekPSUr1

Just got a letter in the mail from State Farm saying if I sign up for the Drive Safe and Save program, I'll get a discount up to 5% for just signing up....BUT, when I read about it more here, they finally say they'd be using my camaro's "OnStar®, In-Drive®, or SYNC®" communication service to collect basic information about my driving. Aghhh....I'm no street racer, but I'm not too crazy about my Insurance company knowing exactly how I like to drive my car. I guess this is one of those things that could totally back-fire in my face! Anyone on here using this yet? ...or would you sign up to save some $$$?

Be afraid......Very afraid. I drive a company van and my company installed a GPS tracker in it to appease their insurance company. A couple of weeks ago I got an e-mail claiming that I had been doing 70 in a 55 on US 52 in Franklin Furnace, Ohio. It even came with a picture of a 55 mph speed limit sign that was supposedly taken on US 52 in Franklin Furnace, Ohio. The only problem is that the speed limit there is 70 mph and hasn't been 55 since the government repealed the national 55 mph speed limit. I had to go there and get a picture of a US 52 sign an 70 mph sign, in the same photo, which wasn't easy, before they would believe me. So much for "innocent until proven guilty". These devices are used for one purpose and one purpose only: revenue enhancement. Any promise of a discount is just to sucker you in. I'll bet State Farm won't even give you the courtesy of an e-mail, telling you about your supposed infraction. You'll find out about it when you get your insurance bill.

[Supercharged Red]

They only track your mileage. I get about a $200 a year discount because I drive only 2500 miles a year. And I do Drag race my car on weekends!!!

[IOMCamaroSS]

Meh, I don't think so..

[Mean Green Z28]

can you remove the device when racing and re-mount after? do they allow it? its just a obd device with GPS

Typing fat fingered on my GS3...excuse any sfelling mitcakes

[gajagfan]

Originally Posted by Mean Green Z28

can you remove the device when racing and re-mount after? do they allow it? its just a obd device with GPS

Typing fat fingered on my GS3...excuse any sfelling mitcakes

The State Farm information is gathered through OnStar so I think it would be live all the time. As far as the Progressive deal, I think the gaps in recorded mileage might be am alarm for them. Guys, if you play with your car, avoid these things. If not, save yourself some money. I do not believe that this is near as big brotherish as many are thinking.

[bannonm]

Originally Posted by goinggone14

This is not a "Big Brother" tactic, and you're being both foolish and paranoid if you choose to be cynical about something that's optional to save you money. Just let it be.

To save you money how? By giving you 5% off your insurance. Let's see, 1 year of on-star is $199. To break even I would have to pay $4,000 a year on a Camaro.

[PalmerGA]

Originally Posted by bannonm

To break even I would have to pay $4,000 a year on a Camaro.

I'm sure there is an insurance company out there somewhere that could accommodate you...

[BreedsAS]

I had this discount on my 2014 Camaro up until one month ago. It never worked against me and I do do some spirited driving.
The moment the discount was removed (due to expired Onstar), my insurance premium went up $20/month.