Serious Electrical Problem, help please - Page 2 - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

EMB135Driver · 09-12-2021, 10:21 PM

I was thinking about this, and without charging protection to preclude thermal runaway, you could end up starting a fire if the battery over charges……this is why you can’t pack lithium ion batteries in checked luggage when you fly….enormous energy capability, but dangerous if not accessible should a problem occur. The charging system is designed for an AGM battery, so I think Id stick with that.

G8One2 · 09-13-2021, 04:54 PM

Standard wet cell batteries have a max charging voltage of 14.5 volts. Anything over that will over charge and cook the battery. AGM batteries have a higher load capacity and recharge rate. Charging of a AGM battery can peak over 15.5 volts, and I'm sure many of you have noticed this on your vehicles. That voltage and load can charge the AGM much quicker, than if it were a standard wet cell. AGM batteries are also deep cycle batteries, wet cells are not. The OEM system has a battery monitoring system and has its own algorithm to maintain and charge the stock AGM battery. Installing a wet cell will cause it to boil and leak, thus damaging it and reducing its service life. I know the wet cells are cheaper, and they can work in a pinch, but its best to stay with the OEM style, AGM batteries.

xstuntman · 09-14-2021, 07:39 AM

So i read a lot on the subject last night and smart charging is needed with AGM batteries since at times they can discharge considerably. Cold weather and other factors call for higher charging capacity compared to wet cell which is why you see something like 15.5 volts at times. Since a wet cell wouldn't need that it shouldn't be a problem.

Apparently with some cars a scanner can upload a switch from AGM to wet cell also. Not sure about a 5th gen tho.

G8One2 · 09-14-2021, 11:15 AM

The problem here with that is, the car doesn't know you've just installed a wet cell battery, and it has no way of telling. All it sees is voltage and state of charge. Its algorithm to maintain the battery is for AGM type batteries. That algorithm is what its referencing to maintain the battery. Once this wet cell you've just installs reaches a certain parameter its monitoring for charge rates, it won't know there's a wet cell installed. It will charge at whatever rate its calibrated for, which is most of the time, too much for a standard wet cell. An over voltage/charge to a wet cell causes the acid to boil and vent. Causing corrosion around your terminals and venting fluid outside the vehicle. This degrades and damages the battery, along with its service life. Now if the vehicle came OEM with a wet cell battery, then you could more probably upgrade to an AGM, but the charging system still won't maintain it properly, but with less effect as if you were to downgrade from and AGM to wet cell.

wra1959 · 09-14-2021, 04:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanRubin

The Onstar module has a 15.5V lithium ion backup battery.

That could be causing problems.

Lithium Ion car batteries are better than AGM, but because of how the charging system
works in the Camaro, it won't properly maintain it.

However, it if were the battery winking out, your car engine would "miss", because the
coils and fuel injectors would wink-out as well. If the engine remains smooth running
when the wink-outs occur, it is NOT the primary battery,

The engine is not affected at all when this happens.

xstuntman · 09-15-2021, 07:37 AM

[QUOTE=G8One2;11070586]The problem here with that is, the car doesn't know you've just installed a wet cell battery, and it has no way of telling. All it sees is voltage and state of charge. [QUOTE]

My understanding is the smart charging reads what the battery needs and supplies appropriately. A wet cell never discharges to the same level of an AGM so its a moot point.

wra1959 · 09-17-2021, 02:49 PM

Yesterday with a new AGM, the car quit charging and went into Battery Saver Mode again. The Lithium Ion was not the problem.

Cars and Resin · 09-17-2021, 03:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G8One2

All it sees is voltage and state of charge.

This isn't completely true, there is also an amp clamp on the battery cable which the computer uses to measure how much the battery is charging. This should work with any type of battery because as the battery increases in charge the current it will draw decreases. I just replaced my battery and the biggest difference I noticed is that now after cruising for a bit the voltage sits around 13V like it did when I got the car whereas when the battery was bad it would always stay at like 15 volts.

MSgt O · 09-17-2021, 03:45 PM

So if its still doing it with the AGM battery, Id look at your alternator output or Battery Current Sensor as the problem child.

acutron42 · 09-17-2021, 04:08 PM

I have an Alldata subscription & if you need any diagrams shoot me a pm. Anyone else here too. Love to help anyone out if I can.

09-12-2021, 10:21 PM	#15
EMB135Driver Jedi Master Drives: Boeing 757/767+2010 IBM 2SS Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bangor, ME and Palm Coast, FL Posts: 1,121	I was thinking about this, and without charging protection to preclude thermal runaway, you could end up starting a fire if the battery over charges……this is why you can’t pack lithium ion batteries in checked luggage when you fly….enormous energy capability, but dangerous if not accessible should a problem occur. The charging system is designed for an AGM battery, so I think Id stick with that. __________________

09-14-2021, 07:39 AM	#17
xstuntman Drives: 2012 Victory Red LFX Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: west central Texas Posts: 1,310	So i read a lot on the subject last night and smart charging is needed with AGM batteries since at times they can discharge considerably. Cold weather and other factors call for higher charging capacity compared to wet cell which is why you see something like 15.5 volts at times. Since a wet cell wouldn't need that it shouldn't be a problem. Apparently with some cars a scanner can upload a switch from AGM to wet cell also. Not sure about a 5th gen tho. __________________ 2018 SS wheels, red Heritage grille, actual driving lights, ZL1 strut tower brace, GM Performance billet aluminum fuel door, front grille Bowtie delete, painted red rotors and calipers, 1/4 window American Flags, splash guards, AEM dry panel air filter.

09-15-2021, 07:37 AM	#20
xstuntman Drives: 2012 Victory Red LFX Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: west central Texas Posts: 1,310	[QUOTE=G8One2;11070586]The problem here with that is, the car doesn't know you've just installed a wet cell battery, and it has no way of telling. All it sees is voltage and state of charge. [QUOTE] My understanding is the smart charging reads what the battery needs and supplies appropriately. A wet cell never discharges to the same level of an AGM so its a moot point. __________________ 2018 SS wheels, red Heritage grille, actual driving lights, ZL1 strut tower brace, GM Performance billet aluminum fuel door, front grille Bowtie delete, painted red rotors and calipers, 1/4 window American Flags, splash guards, AEM dry panel air filter.

09-13-2021, 04:54 PM	#16
G8One2 Drives: 2014 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Metro Detroit Posts: 492	Standard wet cell batteries have a max charging voltage of 14.5 volts. Anything over that will over charge and cook the battery. AGM batteries have a higher load capacity and recharge rate. Charging of a AGM battery can peak over 15.5 volts, and I'm sure many of you have noticed this on your vehicles. That voltage and load can charge the AGM much quicker, than if it were a standard wet cell. AGM batteries are also deep cycle batteries, wet cells are not. The OEM system has a battery monitoring system and has its own algorithm to maintain and charge the stock AGM battery. Installing a wet cell will cause it to boil and leak, thus damaging it and reducing its service life. I know the wet cells are cheaper, and they can work in a pinch, but its best to stay with the OEM style, AGM batteries.

09-14-2021, 11:15 AM	#18
G8One2 Drives: 2014 Camaro 2SS Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Metro Detroit Posts: 492	The problem here with that is, the car doesn't know you've just installed a wet cell battery, and it has no way of telling. All it sees is voltage and state of charge. Its algorithm to maintain the battery is for AGM type batteries. That algorithm is what its referencing to maintain the battery. Once this wet cell you've just installs reaches a certain parameter its monitoring for charge rates, it won't know there's a wet cell installed. It will charge at whatever rate its calibrated for, which is most of the time, too much for a standard wet cell. An over voltage/charge to a wet cell causes the acid to boil and vent. Causing corrosion around your terminals and venting fluid outside the vehicle. This degrades and damages the battery, along with its service life. Now if the vehicle came OEM with a wet cell battery, then you could more probably upgrade to an AGM, but the charging system still won't maintain it properly, but with less effect as if you were to downgrade from and AGM to wet cell.

09-17-2021, 02:49 PM	#21
wra1959 Drives: 2014 Camaro SS Join Date: Aug 2021 Location: Arkansas Posts: 5 View My Garage	Yesterday with a new AGM, the car quit charging and went into Battery Saver Mode again. The Lithium Ion was not the problem.

09-17-2021, 03:45 PM	#23
MSgt O Drives: 2012 Camaro 2SS/RS Vert LS3/M6 Join Date: Aug 2021 Location: Cheboygan, Michigan Posts: 660	So if its still doing it with the AGM battery, Id look at your alternator output or Battery Current Sensor as the problem child.

09-17-2021, 04:08 PM	#24
acutron42 Drives: 2013 Camaro 2SS AGM Join Date: Apr 2020 Location: WNY Posts: 733	I have an Alldata subscription & if you need any diagrams shoot me a pm. Anyone else here too. Love to help anyone out if I can.