08-27-2012, 10:09 PM | #29 | |
Drives: 2011 Camaro LS Stripper model Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: South Beloit IL
Posts: 641
|
Quote:
|
|
08-27-2012, 10:54 PM | #30 | ||
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
|
Quote:
Quote:
Here are your specs for improved daily driver and AC use. Front Camber -1.1 Toe 0.00 Caster Not Adjustable from the Factory Rear Camber 0.00 to -0.50 Toe IN 0.10 Total Toe 0.20 When you are ready to accept dramatically reduced daily driver tire wear in exchange for dramatically improved handling I'll be happy to provide those specs too. |
||
08-28-2012, 08:05 AM | #31 | |
corner barstool sitter
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 6,990
|
Quote:
I won't try to claim I can hit the numbers to ±0.01°. But considering the variety of driving that makes up the daily stuff this level of precision isn't warranted as long as you're close to numbers appropriate to your own driving. Determining what those numbers should be does take some thought and experience if you aren't working directly off the basis of somebody else's experience (and for that alone your sets of numbers should be much appreciated by everyone who doesn't just pump gas into the tank, turn the key, and go). I'm skeptical that the average shop is ±0.01° good like the printouts suggest, or even ±0.03°, considering all of the possible sources of error that exist. But say you're given a target camber number from whatever source (Chevy's own, yours, mine, other). You can get within about 0.1° of that with a consumer-level digital angle finder, which I'd consider fine given the variable makeup of daily driving. If I get out my DIY-fabbed camber gauge that uses a dial indicator, as crude and as ugly as that thing is to look at I can get a little closer. Early on, mostly meaning early 1970's and before, I never could find a shop that would either listen to what I was asking them to do or could get the job done right without screwing something else up in the process. That's where the the incentive for me to jump in with both feet and do a lot of things myself comes from. Alignment is just one of those things. Norm |
|
08-28-2012, 11:38 AM | #32 | |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
|
Quote:
My road course specs for a Mustang are -2.5 camber, 0.50 Toe OUT per wheel and a caster increase of 1 degree. In the rear the best we can do is equalize toe. |
|
08-28-2012, 11:43 AM | #33 |
I go to 4-5 events per year and spend the money to do a track alignment before the event and then put it back to street specs after. the cost is about 60 bucks each time and my shop will do the return to street specs for free since they have my profile saved in the computer.
Plus I can run track and track rotation specific setups (CW vs CCW) |
|
08-28-2012, 12:57 PM | #34 | |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
|
Quote:
|
|
08-29-2012, 10:46 AM | #35 | ||
corner barstool sitter
Drives: 08 Mustang GT, 19 WRX Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Eastern Time Zone
Posts: 6,990
|
Quote:
Mostly what I'm trying to get across here is a little de-mystifying of the alignment process. Sure, it's beyond the average car owner and probably even the average car enthusiast forum member. But there should be a few here in the Suspension/Brakes/Chassis section who could do it, and who might only need a little encouragement (gentle prodding?) to try. It would have really been nice if I could have trusted some place to do what jeremywes has his shop do. Although that repeated expense would have been harder to justify at the 12+ autocross per season level as it would have nearly tripled the cost of playing. Quote:
Norm |
||
08-29-2012, 10:33 PM | #36 | |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
|
Quote:
|
|
08-30-2012, 12:54 PM | #37 |
Drives: 1st through 5th gen Camaros Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Sante Fe Springs, CA
Posts: 458
|
A great way to upgrade your suspension and gaining a better understanding of how each piece affects the handling of your car is to do it in stages. To get the most out of your car I would look at going with this route:
1) Start with a good set of Performance Coil Springs. These will lower the center of gravity of the vehicle, help to minimize body roll, and make your ride look a bit more aggressive. But spring rate is a major factor to think about. Hotchkis spends a lot of time choosing just the right spring rate that is frim enough to keep the suspension from bottoming out yet is compliant enough to still absorb small bumps in the road surface and not rattle your teeth out on a daily basis. 2) The next step would be a good set of adjustable sway bar(s). These will really help to control understeer/oversteer and allow you to dial in the response of the car to suit your driving style and tire selection. Typically you will see the adjustment only on the rear bar. 3) After you have done those your next step is to look at chassis rigidity. The two main parts of the 5th gen Camaro that really help with rigidity is the front strut tower brace and a under-car chassis brace. The strut tower bar "completes the box" of the front suspension by eliminating the flex at the top of the strut towers. The under-car chassis brace triangulates the frame rails to reduce chassis twist and flex, improving traction during hard launches and high-speed cornering. 4) The final product to look at to round out your Camaro's suspension would be a set of upgraded front and rear end links. These pieces are going to be stronger than stock and stand up the abuse of track days and other spirited driving much better than the stock pieces. On top of that they allow you to corner balance the suspension (a much overlooked final step in dialing the handling of a car for the track). Eventually you would have built up to our complete TVS (Total Vehicle System) Stage3 Race Package for the Camaro. The benefit of doing it this way is that each piece you install is designed to compliment the previous one and you will be able to watch as the handling improves each time. It will also allow you to progressively dial in the suspension to give you the exact handling dynamics you want. Here is a picture of all of the parts I have just talked about: Check out what Autoblog and Road and Track have to say about how the handling of a Hotchkis-equipped Camaro compares to stock: http://www.autoblog.com/2010/03/12/h...r-than-before/ http://www.hotchkis.net/_uploaded_fi...5thgen_zz1.pdf |
08-30-2012, 10:38 PM | #38 | |
Iceman
Drives: 2011 Camaro 2LT SC/RS CGM Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Chilliwack British Columbia Canada
Posts: 639
|
Quote:
Enjoy Your Car and keep it SIMPLE
__________________
|
|
08-31-2012, 08:03 AM | #39 |
PFADT makes a camber plate that would allow you to make quick camber changes. I have also seen some guys clock the plate to gain some additional caster when they set the camber for the track. Food for thought but I have no personal experience using it. Iceman has a good point Keep it simple. Ha Ha I wish I would have done that! ;-)
|
|
08-31-2012, 10:26 AM | #40 | |
Drives: 2017 SS 1LE Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 154
|
Quote:
|
|
|
|
|
|