06-06-2011, 06:03 PM | #211 | |
Hail to the King baby!
Drives: '19 XT4 2.0T & '22 VW Atlas 2.0T Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Illinois
Posts: 12,170
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Yes, if you don't stay on top of these things you could end up with a Z71....................or a Z24
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"Speed, it seems to me, provides the one genuinely modern pleasure." - Aldous Huxley
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06-06-2011, 06:18 PM | #212 | |
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I'm guessing the ZL1 will be $55,990ish, so the Z/28 can be $42,990-$44,990 range. Coupe only, no verts. Limited number (least amount possible yet profitable). est 2800 units. Like the color scheme idea, but I would say 4 color combos: red with silver wheels/stripes white with black wheels/stripes blue with black wheels/stripes black with silver wheels/stripes (love the blue and yellow combo idea but don't think it would sell despite the heritage) I'm thinking LS3R (I think the LS7 would be too pricey) factory LT headers, manual trans only, tuned for 93 or E85. Rear gear change or tighter gears in the trans (no OD). The hood I know won't have the blanket... out back a functional pedestal wing. Not as much a fan of the SCCA nose but for this, having a headlight more flush with the nose makes sense. Carbon fiber Recaro racing seats. I would say rear seat, radio & A/C delete, but that's impractical. Light weight 18"-19" BBS racing wheels with only summer compound tires. Suspension... I don't know... I like the Pedders idea, but would be ok with Pfadt or a hybrid of both between Pedders bushings and Pfadt arms (please excuse my ignorance on the suspension) Horsepower should be N/A and less than the ZL1, I think 470 @ the crank could get the job done, but this car needs to be able to out corner a ZL1 and a Boss 302 @ Willow Springs.
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06-06-2011, 06:50 PM | #213 |
Downright Upright
Drives: Daily Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
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Pete, don't ya just luv it when someone takes your concept and puts FAT suspension on it instead...?!
Wait...we're talkin' WEIGHT...not BRAND...here... As to hp, we're a tune from 500 at the wheels with the LS7... 'Course, there is that warranty issue... |
06-06-2011, 06:55 PM | #214 | |
Too Many Great Choices
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07 Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
Posts: 7,454
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Gotta love it. BTW Lowdown, you think we have this car spec'd out for GM feasibly, and at a reasonable price? |
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06-06-2011, 08:49 PM | #215 | |
Drives: GMC Acadia, Chevrolet Camaro Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Winter Springs FL
Posts: 1,657
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Why give dealers that chance for a markup on a limited car? The Boss is limited and the dealers are getting "BIG" money over sticker. If you want a new Z/28 you should be able to order it with your options. I don't like the "Boss" colors. Let's keep it a Chevrolet. Last edited by Fightinfire921; 06-06-2011 at 09:16 PM. |
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06-06-2011, 09:08 PM | #216 | |
I used to be Dragoneye...
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"Keeping up with the Joneses" is not a business case. Especially not when the competitor is a car nobody can buy, atm.... I would LOOOOOVVVEEEEE to see a "Z28" Camaro as everyone has promoted around here, I've said it before. An SS with some more spunk from the factory would be awesome! But I find (from an outsider's perspective) the business case to be a VERY hard one to pitch when you (the Camaro team) have just finished your pièce de résistance: the ZL1. Folks around here want handling. Well, I truly wonder how the the new FE4 adjustment on the SSs will effect people's minds around here. Nobody's had a chance to sample it, yet. I doubt it'll be quite as touchy as the Boss Mustang, but I imagine it's a substantial improvement over the current setup... |
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06-06-2011, 09:24 PM | #217 |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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I am guesstimating the Z28 could be built for some where between $43 to $45K where the ZL1 will be $50 to $55K. Aside from price point the character of the cars will be very different. The Corvette sells in base, Grand Sport, Z06 and ZL1 trim. Each one is still a Vette, but different. Unlike the Vette, the Camaro must generate volume sales across the board as well as in each trim level. I can see where there is a market for both the ZL1 and Z28. The question is units. I am not sure what Chevrolet will find acceptable for the ZL1. I know it will sell a 1,000 units in a Chevy Heartbeat. 10,000 may be realistic. If they could get 7,000 Z28s and 7,000 ZL1s per year, can they make money over 3 years? Does it rake 15K ZL1s per year to make a profit? It all comes down to units and if they just drain away SS sales are any variants good for business without a large built in margin?
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06-06-2011, 09:26 PM | #218 |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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06-06-2011, 09:42 PM | #219 | |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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The Mustang with a three arm solid axle will always be a bit touchier as you described. I have not driven a Camaro with MRC or with the new RLCA and sway bar so what I write next is inferred. The Camaro whispers in your ear what the IRS is doing. The Mustang sort of yells watch out and almost too late. The ZL1 will be very sophisticated. The Z28, in my mind's eye, is a a bit edgier, but not a club racer with a cage and no interior. An SS with the current suspension, the Z28 with use controlled damping and the ZL1 with MRC makes sense to me in terms of range and markets. NA vs SC. If the Z28 just sucks unit sales away from the SS and ZL1 it would be a bad idea. If it adds unit volumes with conquest sales from other brands they should build it tomorrow. |
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06-06-2011, 10:05 PM | #220 | |
I used to be Dragoneye...
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You seem to be talking about the ZL1 suspension/MR...or am I reading your post wrong? |
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06-06-2011, 10:37 PM | #221 | |
Drives: Camaro Justice Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 20,174
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06-07-2011, 08:05 AM | #222 |
Downright Upright
Drives: Daily Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
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I'm sure there'll be "intel" from the GT-BOSS-GT500 situation. What were the BOSS-buyers' second and/or third choices? Direct from their 30-day surveys...
And since when is it wrong, at GM, to move someone up the price ladder, from an SS to a Z/28? Mr. Sloan devised just such a "wish" many moon's ago. I'm sure a call to Pete and Pfadt will quickly confirm an approximation of those folks who've gone "outside" the comforts of GM to augment their SSs to "do battle" with an upgraded system... I seriously doubt the BOSS has robbed much/any from the GT500...apples and oranges, although the same "farmer" owns the basket... The ZL1 may well be a "driver's" car, but a properly-applied and -priced Z/28 would be a DRIVER'S car...and that, friends, is a market unto itself. At the same time, it's better to have said canyon carver in our arsenal than seeing people flee to the (dark) Oval side... |
06-07-2011, 08:47 AM | #223 |
Downright Upright
Drives: Daily Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Cruisin'...
Posts: 4,145
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I do, however, have an even more insightful idea as to where Number 3's "business case" concerns come from. Here are a couple of recent exerpts from a Detroit News interview with Dan Akerson, GM's Board Chairman and CEO:
In a recent meeting with engineers, for example, Akerson pressed them to explain the logic behind putting a big 6.2-liter engine in an unspecified car whose competitor has a 4.4-liter turbocharged engine. The engineers replied: "Well, we want to be able to beat the other guy." Akerson responded: "I don't think the average buyer is going to buy an eight-cylinder, 530-horsepower (car)." His point: Decisions must be supported by a solid business case, and not just for bragging rights or as a marketing tool. And this one: Akerson, who became CEO Sept. 1 and board chairman Jan. 1, already is weighing in on new vehicles. He recently greenlighted the next generation of the compact Chevrolet Cruze, but vetoed a new engine for a sports car set for production in 18 months. So, folks, if 500+ hp is "necessary", it's the LS7 or nuthin'... |
06-07-2011, 11:55 AM | #224 |
Too Many Great Choices
Drives: Grand Sport/Z07 Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: A Mountain Road
Posts: 7,454
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First the Camaro already exist, we are only adding a package. Second the price gap is too large. GM is missing out on in-house upgrades.
Last edited by 2cnd chance; 06-07-2011 at 05:01 PM. |
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700 hp z/28 in 2014, the greatest camaro |
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