Forced induction by other means

[BlackinBlack]

A little info about NOS.

http://www.idavette.net/hib/nitrous.htm

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by BlackinBlack

A little info about NOS.

http://www.idavette.net/hib/nitrous.htm

a little more info about NOS

http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36064

[poetikmaestro]

I've thought about this for a while, and I dont mean to sound like an idiot, so i thought id speak my idea...how about a supercharger cranked by a belt attached to an electric motor that can be recharged via electric outlet? It doesnt have to use the belt run by the engine nor is there any turbo lag concerning turbos...I dunno...idea? lol

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by poetikmaestro

I've thought about this for a while, and I dont mean to sound like an idiot, so i thought id speak my idea...how about a supercharger cranked by a belt attached to an electric motor that can be recharged via electric outlet? It doesnt have to use the belt run by the engine nor is there any turbo lag concerning turbos...I dunno...idea? lol

the problem then is getting an electric motor capable of powering the s/c without having to go to an industrial sized motor. plus you have to look at charging the power source for the motor properly which would mean a bigger/more powerful alternator. then you would have to tune the electric motor to spin the s/c at the proper speed relative to engine rpm.

[poetikmaestro]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

the problem then is getting an electric motor capable of powering the s/c without having to go to an industrial sized motor. plus you have to look at charging the power source for the motor properly which would mean a bigger/more powerful alternator. then you would have to tune the electric motor to spin the s/c at the proper speed relative to engine rpm.

You wouldnt need a bigger/more powerful alternator since the electric motor would be running off a battery back that is recharged via electric outlet...then maybe you could have a sensor that would let the electric motor know how fast to spin relative to the engine rpm (that sensor shouldnt be to hard to build). Maybe its a dumb suggestion, but thought id stir some ideas...thanks

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by poetikmaestro

You wouldnt need a bigger/more powerful alternator since the electric motor would be running off a battery back that is recharged via electric outlet...then maybe you could have a sensor that would let the electric motor know how fast to spin relative to the engine rpm (that sensor shouldnt be to hard to build). Maybe its a dumb suggestion, but thought id stir some ideas...thanks

but what do you do when the battery dies when you are on the road?

[JTinFL]

Shop-Vac in reverse into the intake tube is the way to go.

[poetikmaestro]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

but what do you do when the battery dies when you are on the road?

Maybe have it switch to NA? Bypass SC?

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Bell040

So there are O2 injection systems out there?

Not that I know of. Oxygen injection would work, the problem is storage. Its easier to cram the same amount of oxygen into a bottle of nitrous than it is to use pure oxygen. Probably cheaper too.

[BlackinBlack]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Not that I know of. Oxygen injection would work, the problem is storage. Its easier to cram the same amount of oxygen into a bottle of nitrous than it is to use pure oxygen. Probably cheaper too.

Actually pure Oxygen has more oxygen than NOS has. (Think about it how can you have more oxygen than oxygen.) That is not the issue. The issue is that pure oxygen is HIGHLY reactive and would be very very difficult to get to burn in a car combustion camber. If you injected it into the chamber it would burn out of cycle. (AKA before top dead center.) The result at the very least would be massive detonation and damage to the motor. Most likely it would cause an uncontrolled burn in the camber and intake. (In other words a major explosion.) The purpose of the nitrogen in NO2 is to act as a buffer. The oxygen has a molecular bond to the nitrogen until it reaches a specific temperature and pressure. This prevent premature detonation and release the O2 were it is needed... in the combustion camber and when the air/fuel charge is ignited by the spark plug.

Here is a demonstration of what liquid O2 can do.



Look what it did to a grill 1 minute into the video. That was in a non sealed environment. The grill (steel not aluminum) was completely melted.

Like I said anyone that care to attempt this... 1) Please do it on a Mustang not a Camaro.

2) Please please record it as the result devastation will be awesome.

[DGthe3]

Obviously oxygen has more oxygen, pound per pound, than nitrous does. But oxygen has a significantly lower boiling point than pure oxygen which makes it much more difficult to store in any reasonably amounts. But I was screwing one thing up ... I had it in my head that nitrous oxide was N02, not N20. That changes things quite a bit.

[MontyCarlo]

The supercharger's advantages over a simpler setup with pressurized oxygen are safety (gas tanks don't explode in accidents, but highly pressurized oxygen sure would) and sustainability (a supercharger can't run out of anything). It's also a century-old concept with well-understood operation and plenty of experts.

If you want to experiment, go for it, but do it safely. Get a car you wouldn't mind blowing up and test your setup with the oxygen tank AWAY FROM the car at first, preferably on the other side of a thick wall from you and with emergency shutoff valves ready. Maybe you'll get some interesting results like Mythbusters did blowing hydrogen gas into an engine with no gasoline.

[speedster]

This and similar questions have been around hot rod shops for decades. The quick answer is that pure oxygen is inherently "too much" for an internal combustion engine to handle without a precise method of introducing it.

To make it a little easier for you to see how volatile this would be, think of injecting Liquid Oxygen in. BOOM !!!

Very cool in theory, but crazy in a practical application, hence Nitrous and/or FI.

Great question. You're definitely thinkin' - there must be a way to make my Camaro faster!!...

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by JTinFL

Shop-Vac in reverse into the intake tube is the way to go.

why not just use a leaf blower?

Originally Posted by poetikmaestro

Maybe have it switch to NA? Bypass SC?

but then you have a wasted system. now, if you had a more powerful alternator, you could recharge the s/c battery and keep the motor spinning, but part of having a s/c is to have the power there all the time.

Originally Posted by speedster

This and similar questions have been around hot rod shops for decades. The quick answer is that pure oxygen is inherently "too much" for an internal combustion engine to handle without a precise method of introducing it.

To make it a little easier for you to see how volatile this would be, think of injecting Liquid Oxygen in. BOOM !!!

Very cool in theory, but crazy in a practical application, hence Nitrous and/or FI.

Great question. You're definitely thinkin' - there must be a way to make my Camaro faster!!...

liquid O2.... would barely get a chance to ignite before its expansion rate would blow the heads off the car. seeing as how it expands to like 860 times its size going from liquid to gas at room temp. now, if you had a setup like they do on aircraft with expansion tubes to allow liquid O2 to expand before adding it into the intake, that would be better, however, you will be adding a lot more weight for the LOX (liquid oxygen) container, the expansion tubes, plumbing, and all the required hardware to run the setup. and you would need a vent setup to relieve pressure in the system as well.


nitrous is so much easier