School shooting in CT

[scottc]

Originally Posted by Russell James

The older I get, the saying - every day is a gift - starts to make more sense.

Prayers to everyone affected. I can't watch the news any more today, too depressing. Going to get out and enjoy this gift of a day.

Personally I don't think the gun debate is worth having. I think it's more about a very troubled person. Maybe as a society we need to be more able to see the warning signs and look for ways to get a person like that help before something tragic happens. And crank school security up even more, unfortunately.

Wishing a peacefull weekend to everyone and safe holidays in your travels. Enjoy the heck out of spending time with family and friends.

Agree 100 %. First and foremost we need to get on our knees and pray for these families who have lost their children. Schools do need to up there security and to look for and recognize the signs of a troubled kid and then to get that kid help. It seems the ''loner'' kid is ignored and labeled as just that. Most of these kids have troubled family lives and we sometimes just don't realize what there going through themselves. I don't see an easy answer for this but our country is in need of some guidance and it should start with prayer. This happens way to often. Please pray for these families to help cope with there losses...

[CamaroRBT]

Thanks mods ;-) i was trying to figure out how to do that...

[Red Rocker]

Originally Posted by GaBoy25

The death rate isn't the point it's the intent. Saying one has a higher causality rate than the other is like saying the bath school massacre in 1927 was more efficient because 38 children were blown up by high explosives instead of weapons. It's actually easier to make explosives than legally obtain a firearm.



The real thing I'm curious to see is if the media/government try to push an assault rifle ban when the actual crime was committed with 2 legally owned but illegally taken pistols

According to news reports, the shooter used the assault rifle to commit this horrendous act and only used one of the pistols to kill himself. Assault rifles serve no purpose being in the hands of the general public.

[Mr Twisty]

The sensationalism of America's media is a bigger killer than any disturbed kid with a weapon.

The key word here is, 'DISTURBED kid' .....

Gun control activists are basically calling all gun owners "Too stupid to own a gun."

Our legislators are very intelligent, but few have any common sense at all. If you want to stop the killings, identify the disturbed individuals doing it, not the weapons they're using.... DUH!

[Chevyman2]

Originally Posted by Red Rocker

According to news reports, the shooter used the assault rifle to commit this horrendous act and only used one of the pistols to kill himself. Assault rifles serve no purpose being in the hands of the general public.

I think you partially correct. Think it would be best to have more education before person can obtain them.

Now don't for a minute think that criminals are not going to get there hands on these types of weapons.

So I believe law abiding citizens should have the right to protect themselves equally.

As a veteran, father and firm believer in constitution our guns are not what kill people but careless reckless security of these weapons.

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by Red Rocker

According to news reports, the shooter used the assault rifle to commit this horrendous act and only used one of the pistols to kill himself. Assault rifles serve no purpose being in the hands of the general public.

The appearance of a weapon has nothing to do with how it is used.

This coward could have easily have used the handguns or any number of other weapons to commit this horrible act.

Focus on the trajedy and the families. This isn't a gun control issue.

As humans we tend to want an answer to understand the how and why of something this tragic. And as we can't possibly understand or identify with this sick act or what was going through the sick mind of this individual we convert it to something we can understand. Gun control, lack of funding for mental illness.

Far more families are devastated by the results of a drunk driver climbing behind the wheel of a car or truck. Every day this tragedy happens to mothers, fathers, children. But no one is rallying around making alcohol illegal or cars for that matter.

[PT145SS]

I find the knee jerk, “don’t let a good tragedy go to waste”, mentality quite disturbing. I personally place the blame on three things: First and foremost, the piece of crap that did this; Second the systematic breakdown of the family core; and thirdly, the lame stream media for sensationalizing these scumbags.

In 1994 Florida State University criminologist did a survey on Defensive use of a firearm and although I personally believe that the numbers are skewed/exaggerated due to sampling errors, I believe there is some truth to the matter. The study essentially says that there are 2.5 million self defense situations each year where a firearm was used in said defense (again probably exaggerated a bit.) Of those defensive situations, 91% resulted in no wounds or deaths i.e. a law abiding citizen produced a weapon which diffused the situation and potentially saved lives.

The question is: why are these incidents not being reported in the news? Answer: The lame stream media do not find them to be sensational enough and/or it goes against their political agendas. The sad part is that the sheeple out there blindly follow the media and believe that guns are evil and only used for bad. The sheeple don’t understand that guns are nothing more than a tool, a tool that can be used for good or evil and if left the unchecked, soon we will find that only evil people will have guns.

Some examples only to name a few:
Pearl, Mississippi where a vice principal of a school used a gun from his truck to stop a gunman.

Salt Lake City, Utah where an off duty cop managed to pin down a gunman until backup arrived at a mall.

Colorado, where a parishioner of a mega church who has a CC license took out a gunman who had already killed two (or three) before he could cause more carnage.

Appalachian Law School, where two students held a would-be gunman at gun point, stopping a murderous spree.

Early, Texas, a good Samaritan is credited for saving the life of a police officer after taking aim at the bad guy that had the officer pinned down under fire.

The point is, guns in the hands of law abiding citizens save lives. Gun free zones put innocent lives at risk. Does the lame stream media report this?... NO. Why, because they have their own agenda. My knee jerk reaction is to train and arm teachers and eliminate gun free killing zones.

[Xello]

It's unfortunate that we live in a society where people advocate turning our schools into armed fortresses like they do in war zone countries instead of addressing the real issues of gun control and gun owner responsibility and safety. So now we should arm the teachers. And when that doesnt work (because it wont) we will arm the kindergardners. Why do you insist on instilling a sense of fear and false security on our children?

Violent crime and murder have decreased significantly in the past few decades and there is absolutly no correlation between those rates and the number of people walking around with guns. None. If you know of some legitimate studies, please site them, don't just spew BS.

So you can throw out a handful of instances where private citizens thwarted a crime, big deal. Your examples mean nothing. There are so many more instances that can be sited where a legally purchased and owned firearm was used by someone to accidentally or intentionally kill themselves or family members.

Just yesterday a girl shot her sister in the chest because she "didnt know the gun was loaded". All guns are loaded and if a gun owner doesnt treat them as such they should not be allowed to own them and should face jail time if a gun is used improperly. Own them but keep them in the house and off the street. The more guns there are on the street, the more likely we will all die from them, not less.

I do believe in the statement that "guns don't kill people". It should actually be "people with guns kill people". And yeah sure there are other ways to kill. But do all those other ways combined come close to the number of people killed by guns? In what instance does anyone need to own an automatic weapon for protection? A zombie attack? Should we allow everyone to own grenades because only bad people would actually use them.

I don't care if you hate my opinion because you feel it encroaches on your 2nd Amendment rights. However, it's unfortunate that there can't be constructive engagement. It's time that the majority speak loader than the minority and something is done about this issue.

[Russo]

I see any violent crime like the Conneticut shooting on the same page as our foreign policy... They share the same poor judgement, misuse of a tool, waste of money, and most important, lack of honor... A criminal going into a school and killing people is just as wicked as an American soldier who sits behind a computer and drone bombs a school in another country... I'm not talking about the soldier, but the policy, likewise it is not the tool, but the application of the tool... We have a second amendment not to hunt deer, in the same sense that we do not have a first amendment to talk about the weather. Our right to own a gun is for defensive purposes so that the public can protect themselves from a tyrannical government.

[PT145SS]

Originally Posted by Xello

It's unfortunate that we live in a society where people advocate turning our schools into armed fortresses like they do in war zone countries instead of addressing the real issues of gun control and gun owner responsibility and safety. So now we should arm the teachers. And when that doesnt work (because it wont) we will arm the kindergardners. Why do you insist on instilling a sense of fear and false security on our children?

Violent crime and murder have decreased significantly in the past few decades and there is absolutly no correlation between those rates and the number of people walking around with guns. None. If you know of some legitimate studies, please site them, don't just spew BS.

So you can throw out a handful of instances where private citizens thwarted a crime, big deal. Your examples mean nothing. There are so many more instances that can be sited where a legally purchased and owned firearm was used by someone to accidentally or intentionally kill themselves or family members.

Just yesterday a girl shot her sister in the chest because she "didnt know the gun was loaded". All guns are loaded and if a gun owner doesnt treat them as such they should not be allowed to own them and should face jail time if a gun is used improperly. Own them but keep them in the house and off the street. The more guns there are on the street, the more likely we will all die from them, not less.

I do believe in the statement that "guns don't kill people". It should actually be "people with guns kill people". And yeah sure there are other ways to kill. But do all those other ways combined come close to the number of people killed by guns? In what instance does anyone need to own an automatic weapon for protection? A zombie attack? Should we allow everyone to own grenades because only bad people would actually use them.

I don't care if you hate my opinion because you feel it encroaches on your 2nd Amendment rights. However, it's unfortunate that there can't be constructive engagement. It's time that the majority speak loader than the minority and something is done about this issue.

I don’t hate your opinion, I just don’t agree with it. You state that crime has decreased in general over the past few decades but fail to say that the decrease is a result of stricter gun laws. And while I do not think any study can directly correlate gun laws to crime rates I think an inference can be made that over those same few decades, more and more states are allowing conceal carry and at the same time, those places that still have strict gun laws (like Chicago and DC) have some of the highest crimes rates in the country and even in the world. Not conclusive, but something to ponder.

As for arming teachers, we have models for this. In places like Israel, The Philippines, and other places where school shootings were once rampant they have installed training programs and encourage teachers and parents to carry… and in those places, the carnage caused to their children have been greatly reduced.

By no means am I suggesting that eliminating gun free zones solve everything. We still need to reconstruct the family core and fix social economical discrepancies. And by no means am I saying that everyone should be armed and it is tragic that some gun owners are not responsible for the safe keeping of their firearms.

[dolt45]

I personally believe that a gun ban is treating the symptom and ignoring the cause.

Anti-gun laws could very well turn out to be similar to our drug laws. There is a long list of drugs that are illegal and have been for years. One or more of them are available for purchase in just about any neighborhood, mall or school in the country. I don't like it, but its true. Don't believe me? Ask your kids.

I don't know the answer but alcohol prohibition and the drug war have proved that restriction will not necessarily interfere with supply. It merely forces it underground where there will be no waiting periods, no regulations and no registration. Anyone who can scrape together a few bucks will be able to arm themselves. THAT is what scares me.

If you find a REAL answer, I will gladly sign on.

[CamaroRBT]

^ i agree^

[Xello]

Originally Posted by PT145SS

I don’t hate your opinion, I just don’t agree with it. You state that crime has decreased in general over the past few decades but fail to say that the decrease is a result of stricter gun laws. And while I do not think any study can directly correlate gun laws to crime rates I think an inference can be made that over those same few decades, more and more states are allowing conceal carry and at the same time, those places that still have strict gun laws (like Chicago and DC) have some of the highest crimes rates in the country and even in the world. Not conclusive, but something to ponder.

As for arming teachers, we have models for this. In places like Israel, The Philippines, and other places where school shootings were once rampant they have installed training programs and encourage teachers and parents to carry… and in those places, the carnage caused to their children have been greatly reduced.

By no means am I suggesting that eliminating gun free zones solve everything. We still need to reconstruct the family core and fix social economical discrepancies. And by no means am I saying that everyone should be armed and it is tragic that some gun owners are not responsible for the safe keeping of their firearms.

In regards to my last post, sorry, it was a bit emotional and I try to take that out of these debates. I like to stay logical. That means inferences in general (crime rates and other countries laws in this discussion) are only good to those making them. A good example: Wood, floats, ducks float, so ducks must be made out of wood. Not true , but sounds logical enough without anything to back it up.

I am not an advocate of eliminating the right for people to own firearms, but I do believe that strict gun control needs to be in place in order to curtail accidental and intentional killings and to reestablish the responsibility to what owning a gun really means. Owning a gun is not the same as owning a car yet we seem to put less limitations on guns.

It would just be nice if we could have a policy that first looked at how gun ownership in general and public gun carrying specifically truly impacts society and then address individual rights not visa-versa. We do that with airline safety, road rules, alcohol and tobacco and food and drugs, so why can’t we also do it with firearms?

BTW, I agree wholeheartedly with your last paragraph. Related to it, I also find it ironic that the government continues to allow the free ownership of guns and at the same time continues to allow for the sucking of wealth from the average person to a small percentage. Clearly a recipe for revolution at some point in the future. But I guess that’s why they want to spy on us more and more as well.

[driyac]

IM suprised this hasnt been locked.