2012 Camaro V6 Engine's New Cylinder Head Design Adds Power, Saves Fuel

[Mr CLuTcH]

Originally Posted by PercyJWellingtonIII

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Why would anyone want headers if not needed? For the output of this engine this new design will probably out perform a set of long tube headers when you factor in the weight along with the flow. The channels in the new exhaust seem to be very smooth for even flow. Now a high output 6.2 headers would I am sure be more effective.

Your kidding right? I would gladly take a set of aftermarket headers over some "new" factory exhaust. So a bump in 11hp is enough to justify not adding headers to that setup?

[roorback]

good for CAFE but not great news for performance.

[PercyJWellingtonIII]

Originally Posted by JBuzzy11

unreal how far the V6 has come.. The V8's always had the power but I never thought we would see the V6 at this point, im guessing within 10 years we may see around 375hp from the V6!!!

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More like 4 years and 3 months.

Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH

Your kidding right? I would gladly take a set of aftermarket headers over some "new" factory exhaust. So a bump in 11hp is enough to justify not adding headers to that setup?

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Depends on the actual end in performance. LT headers are what 20-25hp? How much is usable after the extra weight? Its a math question, I dont know and you don't know. I do know that GM is attempting to get the car into the 13s off the showroom floor.

Wow, do you know how much easier it will be to design and add a Turbo unit to this car with the extra space under the hood? Maybe a Turbo from GM is slated for 2013.

Originally Posted by brAnd7onX

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Yeh, why not compare it to a jeep, they come with six cylinders too.

[shinzon]

hahahahha does anyone find it funny that they made a big deal on 13lbs when the car weights 3750lbs ? Interesting technology here, but I think if the General wants to make a performance V6 this really isnt the chasis to do it with. If the new v6 found its way intoa platform that was 3000-3250 lbs, oh my dear would things be fun~ if the v6-ers get decent milage now, imahge that -500or more lbs. That is where GM should look next. IMO

[shinzon]

Originally Posted by Ravirn

How many people who buy the V6 actually mod their Camaro to increase performance?

No... not starting something. I'm genuinely interested. Of the 20 or so people I know who own the V6 Camaro... 1 has actually modded theirs to increase HP and such. A couple have changed exhausts. The other 16 or 17 haven't changed a thing. If this is typical of V6'ers then no wonder they went this way. The vast majority stick with stock or cosmetic/exhaust changes.

true dis is

[PercyJWellingtonIII]

Originally Posted by spyderbuddy

I dont know about anyone else, but I'm interested in the composit intake manifold and new fuel rails.

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The new fuel rails are for the E85 setup. They are higher pressure.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by shinzon

hahahahha does anyone find it funny that they made a big deal on 13lbs when the car weights 3750lbs ? Interesting technology here, but I think if the General wants to make a performance V6 this really isnt the chasis to do it with.

Not funny at all, here...you need to separate the engine from the vehicle to appreciate the ingenuity. Just because it's in a larger vehicle doesn't make the improvement any less significant. I predict this will help keep the engine on Ward's Ten Best list.

[PercyJWellingtonIII]

Originally Posted by TooCool5

My thoughts exactly, more heat in the aluminum head where it was previously absorbed in the cast iron exhaust.

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They can't afford to F this up, other wise will be buying Mustangs and Challengers....like I said they can't afford to F it up.

Originally Posted by Ravirn

How many people who buy the V6 actually mod their Camaro to increase performance?

No... not starting something. I'm genuinely interested. Of the 20 or so people I know who own the V6 Camaro... 1 has actually modded theirs to increase HP and such. A couple have changed exhausts. The other 16 or 17 haven't changed a thing. If this is typical of V6'ers then no wonder they went this way. The vast majority stick with stock or cosmetic/exhaust changes.

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Well I could ask how many people got Manual trans vs. Auto. No I am not starting anything, just asking.

Originally Posted by Ravirn

How many people who buy the V6 actually mod their Camaro to increase performance?

No... not starting something. I'm genuinely interested. Of the 20 or so people I know who own the V6 Camaro... 1 has actually modded theirs to increase HP and such. A couple have changed exhausts. The other 16 or 17 haven't changed a thing. If this is typical of V6'ers then no wonder they went this way. The vast majority stick with stock or cosmetic/exhaust changes.

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Probably 95% of V6 and V8 owners cars are still under warranty and cant do much to them without messing with warranty. I guaranty that when the warranties run out you will see all types of radical mods happening. My car is under warranty and I am not even considering a tune until the warranty runs out. I want LT headers but not at the expense of my warranty.

Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH

Well because it's that obvious, its a V6 engine, why else would I compare a v6based car vs another of the same type????????

Price vs performance? The 370z does cost some cash, but my first initial thoughts wouldn't be to compare it to an SS because stock vs stock there isn't anything to raise my eyebrow over, the SS wins. I understand your point about the 370z costing more than the V6 Camaro but I don't feel like that alone should stop a person from comparing two cars which are composed of the same type of engine, a nonturbo/nonsupercharged v6. Can I not compare "apples to apples" just because one apple cost more than the next???

I can see if this was a dodge SRT10 engine or something way outside it's class, but they're both v6 engines on different plateforms, why not. The Camaro is way heavier, the Z is light. If I'm not in the position to compare two v6 based engines what else am I suppose to compare the V6 Camaro's performance to? What other cars? A maxima? A dodge neon? A POS honda from 93? This is the same reason someone created the thread "what can the v6 Camaro beat anyway"?

All I'm saying is that I don't think Chevy nor it's fans should be going nuts simply because they found a way to add 11hp to it's V6 engine, sure it can be used as a selling point, but regarding performance 11hp is just not enough to put it ahead against the competition of it's class. Ford is releasing so many wonderful things for both the V6 Mustang and the 5.0 until it's ridiculous. Chevy really seems to be playing catch up. How many performance packages can we purchase from Chevy for the SS or V6???? lol.

Im not a Ford fan, but I admire they're business moves;they always seem to be offering more to the customers rather than just releasing a great car and leaving it high and dry until the next model shows up......(ZL1).

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Why not compare it to a Porsce? They run 6 cyl.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

Actualy, it conducts heat pretty well. Far better than cast iron does.

You're right. My mistake. I don't know why I was thinking that....

Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH

All I'm saying is that I don't think Chevy nor it's fans should be going nuts simply because they found a way to add 11hp to it's V6 engine, sure it can be used as a selling point, but regarding performance 11hp is just not enough to put it ahead against the competition of it's class. Ford is releasing so many wonderful things for both the V6 Mustang and the 5.0 until it's ridiculous. Chevy really seems to be playing catch up. How many performance packages can we purchase from Chevy for the SS or V6???? lol.
This isn't the thread...it's completely off-topic...but I don't think anyone should start singing Ford's praises because they've marketing department is among the best. The fact is they offer much of what Chevy provides standard. As far as "wonderful things".....let me stamp a () right here....yup. That works.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH

Well because it's that obvious, its a V6 engine, why else would I compare a v6based car vs another of the same type????????

Price vs performance? The 370z does cost some cash, but my first initial thoughts wouldn't be to compare it to an SS because stock vs stock there isn't anything to raise my eyebrow over, the SS wins. I understand your point about the 370z costing more than the V6 Camaro but I don't feel like that alone should stop a person from comparing two cars which are composed of the same type of engine, a nonturbo/nonsupercharged v6. Can I not compare "apples to apples" just because one apple cost more than the next???

I can see if this was a dodge SRT10 engine or something way outside it's class, but they're both v6 engines on different plateforms, why not. The Camaro is way heavier, the Z is light. If I'm not in the position to compare two v6 based engines what else am I suppose to compare the V6 Camaro's performance to? What other cars? A maxima? A dodge neon? A POS honda from 93? This is the same reason someone created the thread "what can the v6 Camaro beat anyway"?

An engine is a means to an end though. I wouldn't use the engine type as a basis for comparison any more than I would compare two cars based on compression ratio or the width of the tires. I look at what the aggregated result of all those elements does for the complete car and see what other cars achieve similar results, at a similar price point. How they get there is less important than where they end up.

[Mr CLuTcH]

Originally Posted by DGthe3

An engine is a means to an end though. I wouldn't use the engine type as a basis for comparison any more than I would compare two cars based on compression ratio or the width of the tires. I look at what the aggregated result of all those elements does for the complete car and see what other cars achieve similar results, at a similar price point. How they get there is less important than where they end up.

Yeah,.....me too. So how much is 11hp going to to shave off of the V6 Camaro's 1/4 mile time? What does it do for the complete car?

[Inferno LSX]

I bet a hand full of V6 guys would gladly take 11HP factory. How many V6 cars actually get headers anyways? I bet most just bolt on a cat back exhaust and a CAI.

[DGthe3]

Originally Posted by Mr CLuTcH

Yeah,.....me too. So how much is 11hp going to to shave off of the V6 Camaro's 1/4 mile time? What does it do for the complete car?

Well .. rule of thumb says +10 hp = -1/10th of a second in the 1/4.

[MarylandSpeed]

Originally Posted by PercyJWellingtonIII

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Why would anyone want headers if not needed? For the output of this engine this new design will probably out perform a set of long tube headers when you factor in the weight along with the flow. The channels in the new exhaust seem to be very smooth for even flow. Now a high output 6.2 headers would I am sure be more effective.

Few things.

Headers scavenge. What that means is because of their length, and their design, they accelerate the exhaust gases. It is not a matter of "flowing better"...the actually make the gas move faster because of the vacum pulses in the exhaust. This is why LT's make more power than shorties. On a V8 car, LT's make 25HP untuned.

Not only are LT headers not possible with this design, but it is also terrible because it creates a hard limit on how well your exhaust can flow. Your engine is an air pump. To make more power, you have to put more air in, and allow more air out. With this, you are now limited to whatever exhaust can flow through the integrated manifold, and that 2" or whatever oval port. To do anything better at minimum is gonna require reworked heads.

The only reason they did this was to save money. I like the BS about the reduced mass of the parts adds to fuel economy. Bottom line is that it is cheaper to cast the manifold in the head than make it a seperate part.

I hope this never makes it to the V8.