MotorTrend Pits the ZL1 vs GT500 on the Street, Dragstrip, and Racetrack

[DrkPhx]

I really wish the mags would post 60-ft times. Clearly the GT500 is the winner when it comes to straight line performance but is traction limited. However, one thing that strikes me as odd is it's only a .50 second faster in the 1/4 mile in almost every comparison test yet it dynos 100 rwhp more than the ZL1 and weighs approximately 200-lbs less. The difference in trap speeds ranges from 6 mph to 11 mph. IMO the difference in ET should be more even taken into consideration the lack of traction for the GT500.

[bpmurr]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

Faster in the 1/4 mile no doubt as reported, but with somewhat less than desired results with the superior weight reduction and HP advantage. Amost 300 pounds lighter with 82 more HP should equate better than .5 seconds difference in what MT magazine reported. After one fast lap, with brakes burning to the point of being detected in the pits, with subsequent fading lap times behind the ZL1, Ford has nothing to stand on with track performance, other than an advantage in long straightaways with geometrical smoove curves, such as a perfectly oval track per se. Theres not alot of those around I surmise. Both are grand cars no doubt, but Chevy wins the overall comparison chess game. Check mate. Back to the drawing board Ford.

Even with the fading lap times because of the brakes the GT500 was still faster than any ZL1 lap. What problem is easier and cheaper to fix? Being slower in the straight line and coming up with another 100rwhp or changing fluid and brake pads to address overheating? Just saying....

Oh and I see you're in Jersey. Love to see that ZL1 slip down to MD and show my Boss what it can do on some great driving roads in my part of the state.

[bpmurr]

Originally Posted by DrkPhx

I really wish the mags would post 60-ft times. Clearly the GT500 is the winner when it comes to straight line performance but is traction limited. However, one thing that strikes me as odd is it's only a .50 second faster in the 1/4 mile in almost every comparison test yet it dynos 100 rwhp more than the ZL1 and weighs approximately 200-lbs less. The difference in trap speeds ranges from 6 mph to 11 mph. IMO the difference in ET should be more even taken into consideration the lack of traction for the GT500.

With slicks the GT500 is going to take a more commanding lead.

[OldScoolCamaro]

Originally Posted by bpmurr

Even with the fading lap times because of the brakes the GT500 was still faster than any ZL1 lap. What problem is easier and cheaper to fix? Being slower in the straight line and coming up with another 100rwhp or changing fluid and brake pads to address overheating? Just saying....

Oh and I see you're in Jersey. Love to see that ZL1 slip down to MD and show my Boss what it can do on some great driving roads in my part of the state.

....LOL........shoulda, coulda, woulda, it's ok to be in denial. I understand.....

[tomlink]

Originally Posted by alexcfwu

It would be even nicer if they can bring the price down on those so we can buy them as opposed to watch them on Youtube...

+1

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by acamellis

So the new GT500 is Ford's new bad boy, correct? So why compare it to GM's third or fourth meanest car and not the ZR-1? I mean to be completely fair... manufacturer vs. manufacturer.

Car class to car class. Always been fairest.

[Mr.R]

Randy is one of the best drivers out there - you have to trust him. If you remember, he tested the ZL1 against the Mustang Boss Laguna Seca and the ZL1 won hands down. It just won again, in a tighter test. Maybe if Ford didn't cheap out to put Brembos only in the front, the results would have been a little different...
The real deal would be Nurburgring and, as I predicted before and as confirmed now, the ZL1 will beat the crap out of the Ford. In 13 miles, the fords brakes will melt and the driver will be exhausted (if still alive)
Good luck

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by OldScoolCamaro

Faster in the 1/4 mile no doubt as reported, but with somewhat less than desired results with the superior weight reduction and HP advantage. Amost 300 pounds lighter with 82 more HP should equate better than .5 seconds difference in what MT magazine reported. After one fast lap, with brakes burning to the point of being detected in the pits, with subsequent fading lap times behind the ZL1, Ford has nothing to stand on with track performance, other than an advantage in long straightaways with geometrical smoove curves, such as a perfectly oval track per se. Theres not alot of those around I surmise. Both are grand cars no doubt, but Chevy wins the overall comparison chess game. Check mate. Back to the drawing board Ford.

You are gonna hate me but I gotta give some input on this.

Per the checkmate claim:

In chess, a win is a win. You can't say it's not a win simply because a seemingly foolish set of moves traded a queen and rook early on. Its likely the case they were "fooloshly" traded for pawns to setup a grid and end up pulling the checkmate very quickly (3 faster laps than the zl1's fastest lap) by the winning team.

The gt500 vs the zl1 on Leguna Seca, lost its queen; its ability to handle very smoothly and drive very comfortably/confidently to pawns of the zl1. Gone, lost. It also lost a rook; it's braking is taxed by higher camber vs the zl1 as well as narrower contact patches. Brakes heat up too quick for the chassis. Comfort/confidence and braking are crucial players, game changers even. The gt500 traded those for pawns to setup the rest of its team though. The pawns it took from the 2012 zl1 were a lack of nav, glass roof, subwoofer options, and poorer visibility. Definitely not game changers.

That said, the gt500 pulled a win very quickly because it traded those elements to be able to set up a six puck attack. Bishops at perfect pressure points hiding down low after taking the pawns that took its queen and rook from g1 and f3 (lower weight, taller gearing) and a knight (steering feel and accuracy; just at L to the zl1's shift smoothness). Then it threw two pawns up (200mph aero and downforce helps but isn't a game changer on a 135mph track; a solid axel, for all it's faults, does like putting power down sooner than an IRS at times) one at b5 and the other at c4 to put pressur on a4 and a6 safely. The zl1's king is on a7, stay with me.

Now the gt500 simply throws it last knight, (662hp), squarely onto c8. Sorry but with all the other pieces in place, it is a win. A quick, flimsy one, arguably not very repeatable, but hey it's a win.

[oortcloud]

Originally Posted by Fenderaddict2

I would also assume in order to hit the 200 MPH mark, break ducting was not an option as it would spoil the front end, adding lift.

This makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. For the last few weeks I've been wondering why no brake duct option. It's such an important feature on a trackable car. Better brake fluid will help some, but without ducts you're going to have fade on a car of this weight and speed. And this explanation seems dead on.

They just couldn't quite get everything to work in harmony the way they wanted. And they weren't about to give up top speed and downforce.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by Mr.R

Randy is one of the best drivers out there - you have to trust him. If you remember, he tested the ZL1 against the Mustang Boss Laguna Seca and the ZL1 won hands down. It just won again, in a tighter test. Maybe if Ford didn't cheap out to put Brembos only in the front, the results would have been a little different...
The real deal would be Nurburgring and, as I predicted before and as confirmed now, the ZL1 will beat the crap out of the Ford. In 13 miles, the fords brakes will melt and the driver will be exhausted (if still alive)
Good luck

Randy doesn't like the brake setup on Fords, and I agree with him. Pedal feel is vague and the brakes smell. But after 26,000 KMs on my car I can say they never stopped stopping regardless of the venue. They don't inspire confidence even as they constantly outperform their feedback and haul the car down.

[tt335ci03cobra]

Originally Posted by Mr.R

Randy is one of the best drivers out there - you have to trust him. If you remember, he tested the ZL1 against the Mustang Boss Laguna Seca and the ZL1 won hands down. It just won again, in a tighter test. Maybe if Ford didn't cheap out to put Brembos only in the front, the results would have been a little different...
The real deal would be Nurburgring and, as I predicted before and as confirmed now, the ZL1 will beat the crap out of the Ford. In 13 miles, the fords brakes will melt and the driver will be exhausted (if still alive)
Good luck

Not really. You do realize most of the nurburgring isnt high speed braking zones. It has a few major big brake zones with many high to mid to slow to high speed sections. The brakes have a lot of time between slow downs to cool a good bit.

Heaven forbid the test is done with fresh brakes as well. I could easily see the gt500 from this test probably had many hard test/journalist miles on it. A simple fresh set of pads and some new dot4 fluid with a fresh brake bleed would be all it would need to be a nurburgring champ against the zl1 same day, same conditions. The nurburgring is a very power sensitive track. It's back straight alone puts over 10 seconds in the gt500's direction.

[Fenderaddict2]

Originally Posted by oortcloud

This makes sense. Thanks for the explanation. For the last few weeks I've been wondering why no brake duct option. It's such an important feature on a trackable car. Better brake fluid will help some, but without ducts you're going to have fade on a car of this weight and speed. And this explanation seems dead on.

They just couldn't quite get everything to work in harmony the way they wanted. And they weren't about to give up top speed and downforce.

I expect to see alternate parts offered by Ford Racing allowing one to fine tune the car for the owners intended purpose to hit the market within the next 60 days.

[Stinkycheese916]

Both great cars IMO, I would love to own either one. What's funny is that everyone thinks their Mario Andretti and will take their car to a road couse and post record times!

[Whos_Drivin]

Why are there more Ford guys posting here than Chevy? I think they're starting to argue with themselves...