A post I was hoping to not have to make (GM blocks L3 engine warranty repair)

[Jackass]

Originally Posted by Superman09

I have heard a final resolution from GM.
However, first I want to say a huge thank you to everyone in here, I was simply hoping to air my story and see what happened. I never dreamed it would turn into what it did. The idea of a petition never crossed my mind, and I am very grateful for Mr Stacy and the things he did for me in this. I am grateful for everyone who signed the petition, and those that didn’t sign, but offered words of encouragement or advice, and the ones who sent me PM’s to encourage me. As anyone can imagine this whole situation felt like a kick in the nuts, and everyone here has really helped me pull through it.

GM’s final verdict is that my entire powertrain warranty will remain blocked, and they will not fix my car. The catch can may or may not have been the causes of the failure, but according to the owner’s manual any modification can void your warranty. I knew going in to this, like everyone, else that what I was doing could void the warranty, but I listened to the stories online of “I have X, Y, and Z mods and I got warrantied”. I took a calculated risk that adding the catch can would not void my warranty, and I was wrong.

Now before everyone goes and blames GM on this please understand something. I also greatly believe that your relationship with your dealer, as well as the knowledge of the dealer plays a HUGE part in what does and/or doesn’t get covered. Like several have mentioned I had my car taken to a GMC Cadillac dealer who may not have had much experience with the Camaro and the LS3. That lack of experience and knowledge about the car may have led them to believe my car was more modified than it was. Your experience may vary at your dealership. Your dealer may have more knowledge, and may know you better, and may cover your car with a catch can and a cold air intake. However GM’s stance is that modifications void your warranty, and I understand and agree with that.

GM will not be fixing my car, and I understand and agree with them on why they won’t. If they fix mine because I only have a cold air intake and a catch can, where does it end? What about the guy who only has intake and shorty headers but no tune? What about the guy who has only this or only that? Where do they draw the line? GM drew the line at NO modifications, and that is ok with me.

Now again before ya’ll rush off to sell your cars or burn them down or picket GM, please understand something else. I did not take what I was told by GM to be if you have fuzzy dice on your mirror your warranty is done or if you have different tires, or used none GM fluids. I took it to mean that if you added modifications to the vehicle. If you added something that was not originally there or significantly altered your vehicle with none OE equivalent parts then you were voiding you warranty. I took it as so long as the parts used were OE or OE equivalent replacements you would be ok, and that makes sense to me, and I agree with it.

Could I continue to fight this and take it all to court? Sure. However I don’t have the money, time, or energy to go to court over this. I need my car up and running, and can afford to do so, so I will be fixing my car myself. I greatly appreciate everyone who donated money to the GO FUND ME (you should be getting a refund) but I don’t want to fight this in court.

On a positive note, now that my warranty is done, I am free to mod to my hearts (or atleast my wallet’s) content. Again THANK YOU to everyone who has supported me in this, I cannot express how helpful all of this was for me. And please don’t let this shake your faith in GM, they are a company that got put in an awkward situation and had a choice to make, and made the one that protected them, and I do not blame them at all. GM still makes a great product, and I will probably continue to be a customer in the future.

Yes I read the all thing , what about the Magnusen vs whatever was his name !

[VTSummit]

I read the whole OP- not all the responses.
SEMA will go to bat for you- call them now.
The dealers are commonly asked to take pics of the engines of performance cars when there is a catastrophic failure.
If they stopped work before finding the failure, that needs to be determined even if it means paying a dealer to tear it down more until the failure point is known- otherwise it's speculation what failed and why.
Manufacturer of the catch can should be notified- not their problem, but they can provide info when/if it goes to court.
OP has been misinformed and I think his dealer has not really done anything to solve the issue. I've had to bring in area tech reps to look at vehicles where there is a question as to what happened and I risked losing the money on the tear-down... but in the end never lost the time and always won my case.
I wouldn't do SQUAT until I knew WHAT failed. Have a certified mechanic get to that oil pump and see if it failed in the same manner so many others have. THEN they would have to prove how the modification caused this specific failure... Remember this over all else- if you don't know EXACTLY WHAT failed... you got nothing.
/end rant retired fixed ops director for GM

[Crim]

^^^^^GREAT POST^^^^

[DonM]

Originally Posted by VTSummit

I read the whole OP- not all the responses.

SEMA will go to bat for you- call them now.

The dealers are commonly asked to take pics of the engines of performance cars when there is a catastrophic failure.

If they stopped work before finding the failure, that needs to be determined even if it means paying a dealer to tear it down more until the failure point is known- otherwise it's speculation what failed and why.

Manufacturer of the catch can should be notified- not their problem, but they can provide info when/if it goes to court.
OP has been misinformed and I think his dealer has not really done anything to solve the issue. I've had to bring in area tech reps to look at vehicles where there is a question as to what happened and I risked losing the money on the tear-down... but in the end never lost the time and always won my case.

I wouldn't do SQUAT until I knew WHAT failed. Have a certified mechanic get to that oil pump and see if it failed in the same manner so many others have. THEN they would have to prove how the modification caused this specific failure...

Remember this over all else- if you don't know EXACTLY WHAT failed... you got nothing.
/end rant retired fixed ops director for GM

^^^^^^EXCELLENT!!!!!

[Banshee]

Great posts above...last 3 or 4.

I too own a 1LE...2013. My Camaro was delivered to me with the catch can installed and without the typical non 1LE oil filler neck in the trunk, in a bag etc. I do not blame the dealer at all.

My concern is this...If GM supplies or otherwise installs a catch can on a performance vehicle for a specific reason, it's purpose lends a layperson to believe that without specific reasoning in print within a supplement within the manual regarding the addition of an AFTERMARKET catch can, a layperson may come to the conclusion that the addition of a BETTER and more expensive catch can system may provide better beneficial protection.

If I remember correct, the manual does state that the catch can shouls only be used while driving in track conditions..

[qcman]

^ I see your point but you have a clean side oil separator not a dirty side Catch Can like the OP so I don't think the argument works.

[DokWatson]

This blows my mind. There has to be more to the story. Not only am I federal technician that works on vehicles every day, I worked at a Chevy dealership back in the day. Not me or anyone else I worked with would have cared what you did to the car, other than blatant neglect. We were getting paid. Something isn't right.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

[VTSummit]

Originally Posted by DokWatson

This blows my mind. There has to be more to the story. Not only am I federal technician that works on vehicles every day, I worked at a Chevy dealership back in the day. Not me or anyone else I worked with would have cared what you did to the car, other than blatant neglect. We were getting paid. Something isn't right.

Sent from my HTC One M9 using Tapatalk

TAC asked for pics- which DOES happen- TAC shut the case down under the direction of SOMEONE. There's more to the story.
Without determining what caused the loss of pressure, none of us can say squat about anything with authority.

[Superman09]

Originally Posted by VTSummit

TAC asked for pics- which DOES happen- TAC shut the case down under the direction of SOMEONE. There's more to the story.
Without determining what caused the loss of pressure, none of us can say squat about anything with authority.

To the best of my knowledge the brand quality manager made the call on the catch can.

[DokWatson]

I'm by no means blaming the OP and saying he's omitting details. Someone, somewhere messed up real bad. It makes me angry. As a mechanic, I would never treat a customer like this. But there's only so much I can do. Hell, I'd take your parts off before I sent pictures. I would offer to fix it on the side for the cost of parts and a few bucks for my time. Would be much cheaper vs the dealer. Sorry this happened to you.

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[PaVaSteeler]

Originally Posted by Superman09

I have heard a final resolution from GM.
However, first I want to say a huge thank you to everyone in here, I was simply hoping to air my story and see what happened. I never dreamed it would turn into what it did. The idea of a petition never crossed my mind, and I am very grateful for Mr Stacy and the things he did for me in this. I am grateful for everyone who signed the petition, and those that didn’t sign, but offered words of encouragement or advice, and the ones who sent me PM’s to encourage me. As anyone can imagine this whole situation felt like a kick in the nuts, and everyone here has really helped me pull through it.

GM’s final verdict is that my entire powertrain warranty will remain blocked, and they will not fix my car. The catch can may or may not have been the causes of the failure, but according to the owner’s manual any modification can void your warranty. I knew going in to this, like everyone, else that what I was doing could void the warranty, but I listened to the stories online of “I have X, Y, and Z mods and I got warrantied”. I took a calculated risk that adding the catch can would not void my warranty, and I was wrong.


GM will not be fixing my car, and I understand and agree with them on why they won’t. If they fix mine because I only have a cold air intake and a catch can, where does it end? What about the guy who only has intake and shorty headers but no tune? What about the guy who has only this or only that? Where do they draw the line? GM drew the line at NO modifications, and that is ok with me.

Now again before ya’ll rush off to sell your cars or burn them down or picket GM, please understand something else. I did not take what I was told by GM to be if you have fuzzy dice on your mirror your warranty is done or if you have different tires, or used none GM fluids. I took it to mean that if you added modifications to the vehicle. If you added something that was not originally there or significantly altered your vehicle with none OE equivalent parts then you were voiding you warranty. I took it as so long as the parts used were OE or OE equivalent replacements you would be ok, and that makes sense to me, and I agree with it.

Could I continue to fight this and take it all to court? Sure. However I don’t have the money, time, or energy to go to court over this. I need my car up and running, and can afford to do so, so I will be fixing my car myself. I greatly appreciate everyone who donated money to the GO FUND ME (you should be getting a refund) but I don’t want to fight this in court.

On a positive note, now that my warranty is done, I am free to mod to my hearts (or atleast my wallet’s) content. Again THANK YOU to everyone who has supported me in this, I cannot express how helpful all of this was for me. And please don’t let this shake your faith in GM, they are a company that got put in an awkward situation and had a choice to make, and made the one that protected them, and I do not blame them at all. GM still makes a great product, and I will probably continue to be a customer in the future.

DODGE CHALLENGER OWNER HERE - and I come in peace.

I applaud the OP for his even-toned comments, even with the original post, given the circumstances. However, I feel in all honesty he is doing both himself and all other car enthusiasts around the country a great dis-service by publicly supporting GM's stand on this issue.

We, the readers, do not know all that went on behind the scenes, and thus can only go by what was originally posted as being all the facts.

On the basis of that, I believe the OP is surrendering far too easily; many of the comments recently posted before mine spell out low cost measures by which the OP can get his car back up and running while not surrendering the moral, ethical and legal high ground his case (as stated) indicates he has.

What bothers me the most, and seems to be lost in all the kerfluffle, is the fact that the dealership drove the car a mile despite it suffering from a lack of oil pressure. If the engine is truly jackpotted, suffering far more damage than simply a failed oil pump discovered upon attempts to start the car, then it is to the dealership that I think legal eyes should turn.

What is causing the "strange sound" they claim the engine is making? How exactly did the dealership rack up even 1/10th of a mile on the odometer without risking further damage to the engine, knowing that it was being brought in with a CEL indicating a failure of oil pressure?

And GM: the OP repeatedly states his support of what GM has written in its manual, that any modifications made to the car voids the warranty....but OP, it is exactly this kind of stance from a manufacturer that brought about the Mag/Moss act in the first place.....such a stance is unsupportable, and merely a dodge (pardon the pun) for the manufacturer to disavow any real culpability for defective parts they install.

I wish the OP good luck, but further wish he would reconsider his meek acceptance of GM's position. For what GM can successfully get away with, Dodge surely will try to mimic.

In the end, it is groups like SEMA that need to step in more aggressively to protect the car parts aftermarket. This, the foundation of what us enthusiasts rely upon in pursuing our passion for fast cars, is under attack on many fronts; for example, the automakers' position under the DMCA (Digital Millennium Copyright Act) that we don't own our cars, that we're merely leasing the software.

At play here also is the Law of Unintended Consequences: The OP's capitulation to GM's position merely strengthens and embolden's the manufacturers to work in cahoots with the EPA, who may next start enforcing their interpretation of regulations, so they too will go after Catch Can owners, for "altering the emissions" of the cars....

...where does it stop?

When it comes to issues like this, Challenger owners and Camaro owners need to put aside their differences and speak as one voice. That's why I gladly signed the petition that was started, and then spread it around all the social media I'm on to garner support.

For in the end, if they come for GM owners, and I sit silent, one day they'll come for me.

[Retro69]

^^^^ this is to whole point!

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[Mr. Stacy]

^^^ Thank You PaVaSteeler!

From what I understand, as I was not privy to the actual excuses GM provided, was their stance was "Where do we draw the line?".

Well.... you don't, the line has been blurred for many years as owners installed CAI's and Catch Cans with their Dealer's approval. I have read many testimonials to this.

Most warranty decisions of this degree are enforced on a CASE-BY-CASE basis. There would be no precedence set by GM reversing their stupid decision in THIS case.

I think we all know what GM did to the owner in this case.

It's obvious to anybody with half a brain it simply was not fair, or even legal.

[LuckyZL-1]

Yes this made it to the Corvette Forum and this is crazy!!!!!
I traded in my ZL-1 with a CATCH CAN and all supporting mods listed in this siggy when I went and bought my Zo6. The only thing they were concerned about was that it had no cats. I split the cost of the cats with the dealership put the 93octane tune in the car and gave them the keys. The service dept then went through car and test drove the heck out of it. We made the deal and I drove off in my new Zo6.
I then returned 3 days later with extra set of keys for the ZL-1 and noticed it was for sale with certified pre owned sign giving it 1yr warranty!!!!!!!
They actually are warrantying a car with a catch can and all these mods!!! Albeit it may be warrantied by the dealership and not GM but if one dealership thinks its ok (get my point?)!!!!!!
I would have had that dealership tear engine down and find the true cause of failure (oil pump) and then worried about who's gonna pay the bill after they found the problem. Under no circumstance would I have taken possession of the car again until its running again or settled!!!!!!