1LE?

[MikesZ]

Originally Posted by djsnoflake

Hey sorry I misunderstood you through the magic of internet typing. I take "Heavy Duty" suspension to mean that it takes more of a beating and is actually made for supporting a heavier weight (Like on a truck or all the extra weight of police gear).

And I am not saying they don't already have some of the parts they might need. I am also not saying it wouldn't be easy to put together. It is relatively easy to get some new parts made in the grand scheme of things.

What I am saying is that it will be difficult to make a profit off of the low sales volume that having such an option would generate. And that more diversity equals a higher cost for all Camaro models.

I think that suspension/performance wise, GM would do best by mimicing Ford and making a Track-Pack type option that adds handling components and maybe some shorter gearing. Not a whole lot of people are interested in taking options like A/C off their cars anymore.


GM isn't really jumping back into low volume niche vehicles/models right now. They need to make a profit before they can start playing this game. If they could make niche vehicles, we'd know cause the Z/28 would be announced already.

All a 1LE would really need is the L99 + tranny in an LS body, the 18" steel wheels are already there, add BF Goodrich Ultra High Performance radials over the stock BFG radials, add stiffer suspension, heavier brakes (not Brembo though). Keep the LS interior features but just delete the XM and Onstar. Bingo, you've got the 1LE and at least the bones for your police package (they usually run oil and tranny coolers as well + HD alternators + center console delete + radio delete). Just saying, the package would not be that difficult to offer.

[LOWDOWN]

Every time you ADD a new potential part, you have to go through validation/certification...and possibly even crash testing, depending on the parts/system affected. Which means time and expen$e...

"Why GM"? Warranty...and the wish for most NOT to "mess" with their new car... Heavy duty mechanical unfits on Brand New cars is clearly NOT the majority's wish.

The Brembos are already "validated/certified". Bars and bushings are do-able, quickly. Perhaps springs, too, although a "drop" should NOT be expected (crash testing of new bumper heights!). The aftermarket already has THIS item...in spades.

Combined with the RS 20s on an LS/LT with it's lower curb weight, it's "1967" all over again (the original Z28, NOT the quickest/fastest, but certainly THE most "drivable"!)!

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by bballr4567

Yes, you could buy the parts over the counter IF you knew the part numbers. Back in 98-02 not many people did because the internet wasnt known so it was basically a back door type of order. Only way to know what it was, you had to have an inside guy.

1LE option would be amazing. Give the Camaro a "track pack" and watch how many people will check the box. I read somewhere that Ford is expecting like 20k orders of the track pack. That is A LOT of extra cash going into the car.

Also, they are Brembos!! They will squeak. That means they are working. Cant have awesome braking without the noise. Either take the noise or get worse braking.

BTW, Had a ZR1 pull up next to me about 3 weeks ago and talk about loud braking. However, they stop in an ungodly amount of time.

I don't mean to be rude but I just about spit water on my monitor when I read the statement I bolded above. You make it sound like ancient times LOL!

That information was widely available on the internet back then and still is now. There was nothing back door about it.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by MikesZ

By heavy duty suspension I was referring to parts such as sway bars that improve handling...these parts are standard in police vehicles that need to maintain handling at high speeds. And that my man is VERY MUCH part of what makes a sports car! If you don't know that, then there is no sense commenting further. As for the 1LE option, GM's fleet division already has parts that could be used. Really, it would not be that difficult to put together the package.

As an aside I have a friend who is a police mechanic. Police Versions (9C1, etc). are not some magical special package. Realize the cars they are based on are floaty comfort based cars. The police packacges are just factory based suspension upgrades to make the car handle in general, as if you've ever driven a NON police Crown Vic you would know it handles like a dump truck with a flat tire.

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by MikesZ

All a 1LE would really need is the L99 + tranny in an LS body, the 18" steel wheels are already there, add BF Goodrich Ultra High Performance radials over the stock BFG radials, add stiffer suspension, heavier brakes (not Brembo though). Keep the LS interior features but just delete the XM and Onstar. Bingo, you've got the 1LE and at least the bones for your police package (they usually run oil and tranny coolers as well + HD alternators + center console delete + radio delete). Just saying, the package would not be that difficult to offer.

Don't you mean LS3

As well I don't understand the fascination (in this post and others) with making the 1LE package have an "LS Body". The body is identical aside from the plastic nose and tiny spoiler that I doubt weighs more than an ounce less. Its not like the past where you'd have some sort of substantial weight savings by cutting out the chrome bits and body parts. Theres nothing to cut.

Suffice it to say IF GM ever did make a 1LE package it would have an SS nose/spoiler as they are much more about brand identification today and they would want the V8 car to be identified by its looks no matter what.

As for police packages, for their interceptor cars they don't delete the console, and on all cars they definitely don't delete the radio. I know tons of cops, and all of em enjoy listening to the radio during the day....

[LOWDOWN]

1LE availability, and knowledge of it, by '98 was reasonably widespread, IF your Dealer/representative took the time to look in the Vehicle Order Guide. Not many Dealers stocked 'em, though, so if your local sales guy/gal was unwilling/unable to "search", to "him/her" it would be "rare" or "difficult to get". But it was in the VOG.

Earlier in the Gen4's life, 1LE was VERY difficult to get. In '95, it took a personal letter to GM Canada's President Maureen Kempston-Darkes to get a 1LE Formula built for a client...which turned out to be one of only TWO built that year, making it THE rarest Gen4 RPO F-car ever built...

[LOWDOWN]

The "fascination" with V6 cars, as mentioned earlier in this thread, comes from GM's NEED to better promote V6 sales...

A "modern" 1LE based on the V6 would answer the true heritage question/example: 1967 Z28s were neither the quickest nor fastest Model offered...but were DEFINITELY THE MOST "fun" to actually drive. THAT was the car that the "legend" was created from... It was a "basic" car with a rev-happy-but-relatively-torqueless engine and better brakes/handling, for a "budget" price. Something an LS/LT w/RS and Brembos/bars would suitably provide, inexpen$ively.

Fuel savings and insurance rates would "seal the deal"...

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

The "fascination" with V6 cars, as mentioned earlier in this thread, comes from GM's NEED to better promote V6 sales...

A "modern" 1LE based on the V6 would answer the true heritage question/example: 1967 Z28s were neither the quickest nor fastest Model offered...but were DEFINITELY THE MOST "fun" to actually drive. THAT was the car that the "legend" was created from... It was a "basic" car with a rev-happy-but-relatively-torqueless engine and better brakes/handling, for a "budget" price. Something an LS/LT w/RS and Brembos/bars would suitably provide, inexpen$ively.

Fuel savings and insurance rates would "seal the deal"...

Which could just be accomplished by stripping a 1SS (as if it isnt stripped enough) but the difference between a 1SS and 1LT is literally the engine, wheels, brakes, and suspension, all things youd want in a 1LE (altho the wheels are like lead bricks, I'd install something lighter). Otherwise you have the spoiler and nose, which is barely any savings, there was a lot more body differences in the old cars, and huge amounts of equipment differences none of which exist now. I question the fascination with the V6 nose because you gain nothing otehr than it looking like a lower model, theres no weight savings, nothing.

JMO a 1SS stripped down would make an excellent start to a 1LE, it would retain the brand identification of the V8 with the SS nose, but be lighter than all and therefore a great base to start from....

You can't get away from the insurance rates, the car would still be rated based ont he fact theres a V8 under the hood. Insurance companies are far wiser than they were many years ago.

[LOWDOWN]

The LS/LT, like the original Z28, WEIGHS LESS than the SS without all the "complicated/expe$ive" Production Line deletes...

So put the "missing items" on the cheapest lightest Camaro (which is what Piggins did in '67 on the original Z28), and make it the ultimate handling Production Camaro because of its lighter Curb Weight (which is what Piggins ALSO did in '67). A 100lbs is 100lbs... Add your own 91-octane, 350hp w/CAI and exhaust (IF the Factory won't do it for you as part of this "package"...), and you'd have a quick nimble canyon-carver...just like a '67 Z28... A "1LE 350" will sell by the TRUCKLOAD...EVERYWHERE!

When you get into A/C-A31-AG1 deletes, you actually end up INCREASING the price of the end Product, and it's manufacturing "complexity". Porsche has made a small fortune with their "Club Sport" (or whatever name they choose to use) packages by charging more for less...

Insurance $avings accrue because a V6 rates a lower premium that a V8...and that's VERY significant to the "Under 25/Male" segment, the Target Market for this lil darlin'...

A super-handling, mega-power SS is, if I'm NOT mistaken, where the reconstituted Z28 will reside...which is robbing from Gen4 "heritage", NOT the Gen1s the car was "styled" from...

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

The LS/LT, like the original Z28, WEIGHS LESS than the SS without all the "complicated/expe$ive" Production Line deletes...

So put the "missing items" on the cheapest lightest Camaro (which is what Piggins did in '67 on the original Z28), and make it the ultimate handling Production Camaro because of its lighter Curb Weight (which is what Piggins ALSO did in '67). A 100lbs is 100lbs... Add your own 91-octane, 350hp w/CAI and exhaust (IF the Factory won't do it for you as part of this "package"...), and you'd have a quick nimble canyon-carver...just like a '67 Z28... A "1LE 350" will sell by the TRUCKLOAD...EVERYWHERE!

When you get into A/C-A31-AG1 deletes, you actually end up INCREASING the price of the end Product, and it's manufacturing "complexity". Porsche has made a small fortune with their "Club Sport" (or whatever name they choose to use) packages by charging more for less...

Insurance $avings accrue because a V6 rates a lower premium that a V8...and that's VERY significant to the "Under 25/Male" segment, the Target Market for this lil darlin'...

A super-handling, mega-power SS is, if I'm NOT mistaken, where the reconstituted Z28 will reside...which is robbing from Gen4 "heritage", NOT the Gen1s the car was "styled" from...

I don't know where you get your data but if you exclude the fact that the engine is bigger in the SS the LS/LT does not weigh less its the same damn chassis, frame, sound deadening, etc. They are identical vehicles aside from the engines and suspension components. They are all built off the same thing. You won't get any sort of extra weight savings of using a 1LT vs a 1SS they are the identical car. If you took a "1LT" and put all the 1SS performance parts in it you would have a 1SS its identical. The 1SS weighs more because it has a physically bigger engine that weighs more. The LS loses a couple details like the foglights and the ability to add certain options which would be easy enough to do to a 1SS.

Back in the day the lower V6 models had less equipment, options, chrome etc, which made a stripper V8 car a novelty as you just plain couldn't buy it. Thats just not the case today, a 1SS and 1LT are identical aside from the obvious shape of the nose (which probably weighs the same) and the wheels, suspension, engine and brakes, all of which would be added to a "1LE" package to make it a performance car.

* almost forgot we've established from fbodfather the engine cradle on a V6 frame vs a V8 frame has different mounting points, so you couldn't even install a V8 engine in there anyway. As I said they are identical cars so this makes no sense anyway.

[LOWDOWN]

V6 ENGINE WEIGHS LESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm NOT talking about a V8-powered car...and I THOUGHT that was fairly obvious...but apparently NOT...

A V6 CAR!!!

Which happens to weigh less...costs less to insure...gets better mpgs...costs less to purchase and pay for...and helps to Market-Drive the V6 Models...which Camaro/GM desperately needs... instead of floggin' 'em to Rent-a-Wreck fleets, only to eventually undercut the New Car Department with "distressed merchandise" from the Used car lots...

As stated, the "original" Z28s were NOT the quickest/fastest, but they WERE the most fun...and so would this "special" V6...

Read it again...V6!

NOW does it make sense?!

[BRKLYN]

bare bones muscle, with composite quarter panels

[Rogue Leader]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

V6 ENGINE WEIGHS LESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'm NOT talking about a V8-powered car...and I THOUGHT that was fairly obvious...but apparently NOT...

A V6 CAR!!!

Which happens to weigh less...costs less to insure...gets better mpgs...costs less to purchase and pay for...and helps to Market-Drive the V6 Models...which Camaro/GM desperately needs... instead of floggin' 'em to Rent-a-Wreck fleets, only to eventually undercut the New Car Department with "distressed merchandise" from the Used car lots...

As stated, the "original" Z28s were NOT the quickest/fastest, but they WERE the most fun...and so would this "special" V6...

Read it again...V6!

NOW does it make sense?!

AND you missed why I was asking whats the fascination with the V6 BODY. SO far a lot have said make a 1LE that has the V6 Body with the V8, which I am saying makes no sense as there is no savings that way. Thats why I was confused as it seemed like YOU were talking about the V6 style, not the whole car being V6 engine based.

As well if you were making a 1LE which was a factory "race car" option making it a V6 would be nothing short of useless as there is no way you could lighten it enough to make it competitive in anything. Now if it was turboed like the one in your profile pic (the Leno car) then we are talking. Unfortunately this will never happen.

The bottom line is you were talking about something completely different than the point of the thread which was a lightweight weekend racer V8 option, the 1LE.

[djsnoflake]

Originally Posted by Rogue Leader

AND you missed why I was asking whats the fascination with the V6 BODY. SO far a lot have said make a 1LE that has the V6 Body with the V8, which I am saying makes no sense as there is no savings that way. Thats why I was confused as it seemed like YOU were talking about the V6 style, not the whole car being V6 engine based.

As well if you were making a 1LE which was a factory "race car" option making it a V6 would be nothing short of useless as there is no way you could lighten it enough to make it competitive in anything. Now if it was turboed like the one in your profile pic (the Leno car) then we are talking. Unfortunately this will never happen.

The bottom line is you were talking about something completely different than the point of the thread which was a lightweight weekend racer V8 option, the 1LE.

Not to stir the pot, but if you Turbo a V6, how much weight do you save over the V8, once you add in an intercooler, and all the piping, yo end up at roughly the same HP as a V8 SS..............?