2 sides of a tune

[motor1]

I have read all the threads about tuning and see now that 1 of them has been closed. I have read where the Mods speak of fraud, etc when the consumers try to circumvent the warranty denial by returning their car back to stock before taking it in for repairs. The problem I have is that this type of behavior would not take place if the manufacturers stepped up and repaired things under warranty when they should be. I have NO personal experience with warranty denials but have read the STORIES. If you destroy a transmission due to a TCM tune which changed the shift points past redline, etc..and a warranty is denied then that is understandable. On the other hand if you mildly changed the shift points for a better shift and the warranty is denied due to just having a tune then that is ridiculous. It is this type of blatant warranty denial across the board just because a tune was installed that makes no sense. Maybe I am missing something but manufacturers seem to just deny it immediately if you have a tune regardless of the specific reason for part failure. Maybe someone can provide an example of warranty claims because I do not have one to refer to.

[Eric Baker]

The problem is, the dealer making the repair has no way to tell how severe the tune is. As far as they know, the tune did cause the failure, even if it really didn't, because they can't go in and look at the parameters and values.

[FLYNNZL1]

Be careful, it seems like Facebook is influencing everything, have a discussion on a hot topic, and have your tread closed. At lest give the reason on the last post way it was closed, this will give all of the followers and posters a heads up.

[Milk 1027]

Originally Posted by Flynnaz

Be careful, it seems like Facebook is influencing everything, have a discussion on a hot topic, and have your tread closed. At lest give the reason on the last post way it was closed, this will give all of the followers and posters a heads up.

wut?

[motor1]

Originally Posted by Eric Baker

The problem is, the dealer making the repair has no way to tell how severe the tune is. As far as they know, the tune did cause the failure, even if it really didn't, because they can't go in and look at the parameters and values.

That is my point, if they cannot prove it was the cause then why just assume. I can destroy a transmission without a tune and they have to prove it was abuse..just saying

[FLYNNZL1]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

wut?

I am not trying to "flame" the fire, on the last post of the last closed "Tuner" thread, it was closed with little to no explanation, if you got the power to close a thread, at lest give a brief explanation, like, I have closed this tread because ..... Thats all, please don't boot me for speaking up jk

[Milk 1027]

It was closed because some people can't discuss like adults when someone else thinks they are wrong or has a different opinion than them. The thread was just beating on a dead horse. Tunners can't prove that their claims are true and they seem to not want to. So what's the point of arguing in a circle?

[FLYNNZL1]

I agree, I get frustrated too at endless loop discussions on this subject. Lets talk about how cool our cars are

[DSteck]

Originally Posted by motor1

That is my point, if they cannot prove it was the cause then why just assume. I can destroy a transmission without a tune and they have to prove it was abuse..just saying

It's easy to say that when it's not your money being lost.

The fact of the matter is that they warranty their vehicle in the state that it leaves the factory. That is the state that it's been tested in, and that is the state that the OEM will stand behind. If you change the tune, however trivial it may be, they did not gaurantee the vehicle in that state, and consequently have no liability to stand behind it if there's a failure. On top of that, THEY WARN THE CUSTOMER ABOUT VOIDING THE WARRANTY! That's like having a sign posted that you're entering a construction zone, and the speed limit is lowered... yet you still speed anyway, get pulled over and ticketed, and then bitch about the ticket.

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

Tunners can't prove that their claims are true and they seem to not want to.

Yep. I tell everyone that I have zero gaurantee that the tune will go undetected after being flashed back to stock, and on top of that, tell everyone I don't support doing it.

[motor1]

Originally Posted by DSteck

It's easy to say that when it's not your money being lost.

The fact of the matter is that they warranty their vehicle in the state that it leaves the factory. That is the state that it's been tested in, and that is the state that the OEM will stand behind. If you change the tune, however trivial it may be, they did not gaurantee the vehicle in that state, and consequently have no liability to stand behind it if there's a failure. On top of that, THEY WARN THE CUSTOMER ABOUT VOIDING THE WARRANTY! That's like having a sign posted that you're entering a construction zone, and the speed limit is lowered... yet you still speed anyway, get pulled over and ticketed, and then bitch about the ticket.


Yep. I tell everyone that I have zero gaurantee that the tune will go undetected after being flashed back to stock, and on top of that, tell everyone I don't support doing it.

I understand exactly what you are speaking of and agree, my problem arises when I read about warranty work being denied when it was OBVIOUS that the tune had absolutely NOTHING to do with the problem. I cannot site an example because it was a while back. The perception is that if they see a tune all bets are off and I feel that is what has consumers worried. Now if you Cam your car and drag it then theres no question, but a simple CAI and a tune should not be the catch all for the manufacturer and that is how it seems to be.

[Dr Jkel]

Am I wrong? If you mod your car and have it tuned, the reason you have it tuned is to make the car run and if you change back to stock your car will not run, well at least mine won't. So why would you want to change it back. Thoughts

[DSteck]

Originally Posted by motor1

I understand exactly what you are speaking of and agree, my problem arises when I read about warranty work being denied when it was OBVIOUS that the tune had absolutely NOTHING to do with the problem. I cannot site an example because it was a while back. The perception is that if they see a tune all bets are off and I feel that is what has consumers worried. Now if you Cam your car and drag it then theres no question, but a simple CAI and a tune should not be the catch all for the manufacturer and that is how it seems to be.

Please provide me a case where somebody blew their engine and was denied warranty work because of a tune. Dealers don't just randomly check for aftermarket calibrations, and decide to deny your warranty.

I have zero problem with a dealer denying ANY powertrain warranty if there's a tune on the vehicle.

[2SSCAMARO]

Originally Posted by Milk 1027

It was closed because some people can't discuss like adults when someone else thinks they are wrong or has a different opinion than them. The thread was just beating on a dead horse. Tunners can't prove that their claims are true and they seem to not want to. So what's the point of arguing in a circle?

The fact that the thread was beating a dead horse was very obvious many pages prior. Many times readers were advised that if anyone has any reservations about the effects on warranty and are not willing to take that risk,then they should not mod or tune. Is there any ambiguity in that advice?

Those interested in looking out to help members who would like to mod or tune could do this... Write to Obama and his minions who favor redistribution of wealth and debt and who now owns and operates GM on behalf of the tax payers. Based on that premise they could increase the price of all cars sufficiently so that the warranty costs experienced from tuners and modders are spread out among all vehicle owners. Seeing as non-modder/tuners outnumber modders probably thousands to one and many of the non-modders violate their warranties in numerous other ways yet reap repairs fraudulently, it seems an equitable way of doing business.

[FLYNNZL1]

Originally Posted by 2SSCAMARO

The fact that the thread was beating a dead horse was very obvious many pages prior. Many times readers were advised that if anyone has any reservations about the effects on warranty and are not willing to take that risk,then they should not mod or tune. Is there any ambiguity in that advice?

Those interested in looking out to help members who would like to mod or tune could do this... Write to Obama and his minions who favor redistribution of wealth and debt and who now owns and operates GM on behalf of the tax payers. Based on that premise they could increase the price of all cars sufficiently so that the warranty costs experienced from tuners and modders are spread out among all vehicle owners. Seeing as non-modder/tuners outnumber modders probably thousands to one and many of the non-modders violate their warranties in numerous other ways yet reap repairs fraudulently, it seems an equitable way of doing business.

Your first part, I understand, the second just does not make sense . GM has paid off it's debt already, back in April, where have you been?
Source: http://money.cnn.com/2010/04/21/auto...ment/index.htm
and the rest is the dead horse you were refering too.