160 degree Tstat question

[Rickh]

SOTP feeling is a loss of power especially with engine oil running 220 plus.

My target is to keep the engine oil when fully warmed up at 212 MAX, no higher."

I monitor the engine oil closely and when it hovers around 215-220 plus I can indeed begin to feel a loss of power. Once oil temp. 220-225 it becomes obvious.

"208-212" or so seems to be the target for a fully warmed up engine oil temp. and no loss of PCM engine timing.

[Synner]

Let me try again. OIL TEMP IS NOT YOUR ISSUE IT'S THE TUNE.

[thahemp]

Originally Posted by Rickh

SOTP feeling is a loss of power especially with engine oil running 220 plus.

My target is to keep the engine oil when fully warmed up at 212 MAX, no higher."

I monitor the engine oil closely and when it hovers around 215-220 plus I can indeed begin to feel a loss of power. Once oil temp. 220-225 it becomes obvious.

"208-212" or so seems to be the target for a fully warmed up engine oil temp. and no loss of PCM engine timing.

The engine oil temp might correlate with what you're feeling, but it's not causing it. If your tuner says your IATs are too high, then that's a good place to start. There is a table for pulling timing based on intake air temp. There are lots of tables for pulling timing. You're gonna have to log the car to figure out your problem. Or you can try the shotgun method and spend money on parts and spend time screwing with the tune until you accidentally fix your issue.

[Rickh]

Originally Posted by thahemp

The engine oil temp might correlate with what you're feeling, but it's not causing it. If your tuner says your IATs are too high, then that's a good place to start. There is a table for pulling timing based on intake air temp. There are lots of tables for pulling timing. You're gonna have to log the car to figure out your problem. Or you can try the shotgun method and spend money on parts and spend time screwing with the tune until you accidentally fix your issue.

Thank you for the clarification and direction. This info. provides better understanding.

If I went back to my tuner and have my fans turn on as low as say 165-185 coolant temp. on a progressive scale how come the IAT would not be reduced too? I just thought with the fans on sooner blowing air it would reduce all (3), coolant more, engine oil more and in turn IAT further. More air blown onto the engine by the fans and intake area would keep the IAT lower.

I'll read up on IAT forums and ask the tuner about doing some monitoring.

Again, thank you for the direction.

[thahemp]

No problem. The CAI you are using is going to have the biggest effect on intake air temps. My Fastlane intake heat soaks bad while I'm sitting still. Location of the IAT sensor, type of tubing, isolation from hot engine bay air, etc... all affect your intake air temp. Your engine temp and fan settings aren't going to do anything to help your IATs unfortunately.

[Rickh]

Ok. Understood and makes sense.

Currently I'm running the stock intake box, inlet snorkel attached, K&N drop in filter with the odd looking resonator tubing ditched for the plastic SLP Blackhawk tube.

I did order the Cold Air Inductions intake, will install it next week. Thinking it will increase air flow and has some material in it that combats heat and IAT too.

I'll look into relocating the IAT sensor too, wise idea.

[thahemp]

I wouldn't think you should be battling intake air temps with the setup you have now. You could very well be dealing with what Jannetty said... knock retard from overly aggressive timing advance. You start to see what I mean by having to log it. You could spend forever guessing.

[2012LS3VERT]

If your tuner changes your fan settings with HP tuners, they can't be turned on below 192* anyway unless you go to the custom operating system.

[Rickh]

Ok. I'll ask the tuner to monitor and log the KR.

[2012LS3VERT]

And monitor the IATs. The stock tune pulls timing at as little as 88 degrees. If I left mine that low I'd pull timing at idle here in alabama.

[thahemp]

Yep. I was gonna post the table but I'm not booted into windows right now.

Rickh
Your tuner should know what to do. If you have to tell him what to log, then you probably ought to find a different tuner.

[GONIF]

This is dead right ......"Your tuner should know what to do. If you have to tell him what to log, then you probably ought to find a different tuner."

[Rickh]

Visited the tuner after shop hours last evening, and we both reviewed the HP Tuners software file.

1. Want to say you are all correct. Even with a high of 223 engine oil temp., it has absolutely nothing to do with pulled engine timing. Tuner said that correct, it's mostly based off both the coolant temps. and IAT timing table temps.

2. Next, tuner showed me the tune file section in regards to coolant temperature. We're all good here now, fans are set on a progressive level to turn on at approx. 195 degrees. By 201 coolant temp. they're at max. speed, setting from 201 or so upwards all says 91, meaning 100%. This is while running with the SLP 160 t-stat. Vast majority of the time driving now the coolant averages 174 low to 187 high. Only if romping on the throttle over and over or heavy traffic does the coolant heat up to 198. By then the fans are ON and then the coolant temps. drop back down. Combination of the t-stat and fans certainly seem to have helped with performance.

3. Next, tuner showed me the section in regards to "IAT timing reduction." Tuner advised based on his experience tuning vehicles there was way too much IAT timing that was being pulled. My initial base tune file included the IAT table from Diablosport Intune. No idea even if there tune file included any partial IAT table changes. Tuner did make a conservative scale reduction to the IAT timing table using HP Tuners.

Next, 80 degree ambient July weather, warmed the "coolant way up to 195-198" and made many, many WOT passes throughout all the gears, upshifts and downshifts at WOT. Even with the intake IAT heat soak did not "hear" any knock whatsoever. Also, even with heat soak maxed out car feels more responsive throughout the gears. So, overall happy.

Is it possible the computer is compensating for IAT timing reductions made and KR is alleviating any sound of knock?? I asked the tuner about it and he said it's a pain in the ass to monitor KR as so many variables. Also, that road testing the car and how it feels and responds in hot weather during which both the coolant and IAT temperatures are real high is a good indicator.

Confident we made progress, yet what about IAT and KR monitoring?

[thahemp]

Sounds like he got you pointed in the right direction.

I don't really agree with the statement that it's a pain in the ass to monitor KR. It's pretty straight forward if you have the means to do it. Maybe he just didn't want to get into an hour long conversation on all the things that could cause KR. Basically... it's simple to monitor it. It's a little more difficult sometimes to determine the cause. It could be burst knock or false knock. It could be from bad gas. It could be too much timing. You would need a handheld + logging software or a seat of HP Tuners or similar to log your car. Not cheap, but a nice tool to have in your shed.

If you didn't have any knock on the dyno last night and he put it through its paces warm like you say, then I wouldn't worry about it. It sounds like he at least put in a reasonable effort to check for KR.