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Old 11-14-2017, 09:48 AM   #1
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[ANSWERED] Camaro SS No-Lift Shift feature questions

Quote:
Originally Posted by vtirocz
Al,

My primary reason for asking this question is to confirm that the No-Lift Shift (NLS) algorithm is functioning properly on my 2017 1SS. At this year's Camaro Fest in Bowling Green, I asked during the Q&A about the NLS algorithm and you confirmed it was enabled on all 6th gen manual transmission Camaro SS cars. I recently tested the feature out and it did not work how I was expecting. Before I use it again, I'd like to confirm I'm executing it correctly and not just banging into a 6500 RPM limiter if that's not how the feature is supposed to work. Could you please help me clear up the following questions:

1. When the accelerator pedal is at 100% and remains there throughout the procedure, what should engine speed do as the clutch pedal gets depressed and the shift lever moved to the next gear? Does engine speed jump to and get held at 6500 RPM or is engine speed supposed to reduce?

2. What are the enable criteria for the no-lift shift algorithm?

3. Is the algorithm tuned exactly the same between the SS 1LE and SS without 1LE package?


Background information and follow-up questions:
When I perform a no-lift upshift, as I depress the clutch the engine speed will go to 6500 RPM and stay there.... I'm concerned that the feature is not working as intended and it might just be hitting a normal rev limiter....Does PTM in the 1SS 1LE impact the NLS algorithm?
AL's ANSWER:

First of all,

I’m glad you Camaro owners are using all of the functions of the car, including No-lift Shifting. Our engineering team is always looking for the best ways to combine performance and technology to improve the Camaro driving experience. This new “ask Al” forum seems like the perfect place to go further into detail on some of the features that may not get the proper explanation in the Press Releases or media outlets. I’d like to explain what the feature is, first, then explain how to use it on your Camaro. The Camaro has actually had ‘No-lift Shift’ since the 5th Generation. It is a feature that is intended for our drivers who want the performance feel of quick power shifting in our manual transmissions. The feature keeps the throttle at full open for both our boosted and non-boosted applications when passing through the Engine Over-speed Protection during a shift. In Engineering terms, when triggered, there is an immediate torque control, with fuel and spark, for a given period of time. Then, a predictive control takes over using the throttle to control torque. This allows the driver to take advantage of fast torque control for a short period of time (e.g. during the shift) without heating up or damaging the catalyst over time.

To address the most common question about the feature, you should know that there are both enable RPM’s and target RPM’s for each transmission, which are different for each engine application on the Camaro. We’ve put together a table below to show enable and target RPM by engine. To perform a No-lift Shift, simply put the throttle to the floor (i.e. WOT), and keep it there. Once the tachometer reaches the enable RPM, you can depress the clutch and shift as quickly as you can, and you’ll notice the tach will go to your target RPM during the shift. For example, if you are driving a 2017 SS Manual, with your throttle pedal to the floor, and the tach above 5000 RPM, say 5100 RPM, you can quickly upshift without lifting your throttle foot. The tach will reach the target RPM, in this example 6400 RPM, but not flare to redline. You can quick shift at any time during this RPM range. By the way, in our 2.0T Camaro (RPO LTG), if you are performing a No-lift Shift sequence, you will notice that you don’t lose boost during shifting, as you would with normal shifting. This adds up to an improved lap time or quarter mile. Also, you need to have a minimum speed of 15 kph (9.3 mph).

Name:  NLS Targets.png
Views: 1857
Size:  57.7 KB

I would like to address a few of the specific comments with regard to No-lift Shifting. As I mentioned, the feature is on all 6th Generation Camaro Manual Transmissions, with the exception of the 2016 2.0T and V6. Those were added in Model Year 2017 and beyond. With regard to the effect of Mode selection on No-lift Shift, there is no difference between Tour/Sport/Track/Snow-Ice mode or PTM mode on the ability to perform the quick shifts. Most people either don’t keep the throttle to the floor, or don’t wait until they reach their Enable RPM before performing their shift. Both are required criteria to execute the No-lift shift feature. Lastly, the Enable and Target RPM is different for each engine application, and even within an application (as in the SS and SS 1LE).

If you are having problems using the feature, give it a try as I’ve described in this response. It may seem counterintuitive to keep your throttle to the floor while shifting, and the V6 and SS target RPM’s seem close to redline, but trust that it works. It may just take some practice.

Good luck with our No-lift shifting! I hope this response is helpful, and the type of information you were looking to see from the Camaro team.

Until next time,
Al O.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:08 AM   #2
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:26 AM   #3
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That explains why the SS owners seem to go to red line while the 1LE seems to drop to the rpm for the next gear.

Thanks!
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:38 AM   #4
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No-lift shift is an awesome feature.
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Old 11-14-2017, 10:39 AM   #5
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This is the kind of info we always get from Al.
I think it is the reason so many of us have such great trust in the Camaro
team, and also, so much love for our Camaros. Show me another product
that you purchase where you get to talk to the folks who design it, engineer it and build it.
Thanks to Al, Tom, Mark, Jim(2), Ann, Rosanna and all the others who show up
at our get togethers to talk with us about our mutual love of the Camaro.
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:14 PM   #6
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Awesome answer! I don't believe it was known that the 2016 turbos did not have this feature (generally speaking...
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:17 PM   #7
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Very cool information and some insight on how the executed the feature!
Two things though:
First, is that a typo for the target rpm on the LTG? 3400 seems real low
Second, I have a MY16 LTG manual and can confirm that I have no lift shift. Target RPM seems to be 5300 when I shift from 5000-6000 rpm. however when I NLS below 5000 it seems to pull 700 rpm fairly consistently.

*mind you I try to not stare dead at my tach when boogying down the road*
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Old 11-14-2017, 01:59 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stmbtwilli View Post
This is the kind of info we always get from Al.
I think it is the reason so many of us have such great trust in the Camaro
team, and also, so much love for our Camaros. Show me another product
that you purchase where you get to talk to the folks who design it, engineer it and build it.
Thanks to Al, Tom, Mark, Jim(2), Ann, Rosanna and all the others who show up
at our get togethers to talk with us about our mutual love of the Camaro.
If you have been over on CorvetteForum at all they have had an "Ask Tadge" section for atleast 2 years now I think.
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Old 11-14-2017, 02:04 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Wyndham View Post
AL's ANSWER:

First of all,

Im glad you Camaro owners are using all of the functions of the car, including No-lift Shifting. Our engineering team is always looking for the best ways to combine performance and technology to improve the Camaro driving experience. This new ask Al forum seems like the perfect place to go further into detail on some of the features that may not get the proper explanation in the Press Releases or media outlets. Id like to explain what the feature is, first, then explain how to use it on your Camaro. The Camaro has actually had No-lift Shift since the 5th Generation. It is a feature that is intended for our drivers who want the performance feel of quick power shifting in our manual transmissions. The feature keeps the throttle at full open for both our boosted and non-boosted applications when passing through the Engine Over-speed Protection during a shift. In Engineering terms, when triggered, there is an immediate torque control, with fuel and spark, for a given period of time. Then, a predictive control takes over using the throttle to control torque. This allows the driver to take advantage of fast torque control for a short period of time (e.g. during the shift) without heating up or damaging the catalyst over time.

To address the most common question about the feature, you should know that there are both enable RPMs and target RPMs for each transmission, which are different for each engine application on the Camaro. Weve put together a table below to show enable and target RPM by engine. To perform a No-lift Shift, simply put the throttle to the floor (i.e. WOT), and keep it there. Once the tachometer reaches the enable RPM, you can depress the clutch and shift as quickly as you can, and youll notice the tach will go to your target RPM during the shift. For example, if you are driving a 2017 SS Manual, with your throttle pedal to the floor, and the tach above 5000 RPM, say 5100 RPM, you can quickly upshift without lifting your throttle foot. The tach will reach the target RPM, in this example 6400 RPM, but not flare to redline. You can quick shift at any time during this RPM range. By the way, in our 2.0T Camaro (RPO LTG), if you are performing a No-lift Shift sequence, you will notice that you dont lose boost during shifting, as you would with normal shifting. This adds up to an improved lap time or quarter mile. Also, you need to have a minimum speed of 15 kph (9.3 mph).

Attachment 906630

I would like to address a few of the specific comments with regard to No-lift Shifting. As I mentioned, the feature is on all 6th Generation Camaro Manual Transmissions, with the exception of the 2016 2.0T and V6. Those were added in Model Year 2017 and beyond. With regard to the effect of Mode selection on No-lift Shift, there is no difference between Tour/Sport/Track/Snow-Ice mode or PTM mode on the ability to perform the quick shifts. Most people either dont keep the throttle to the floor, or dont wait until they reach their Enable RPM before performing their shift. Both are required criteria to execute the No-lift shift feature. Lastly, the Enable and Target RPM is different for each engine application, and even within an application (as in the SS and SS 1LE).

If you are having problems using the feature, give it a try as Ive described in this response. It may seem counterintuitive to keep your throttle to the floor while shifting, and the V6 and SS target RPMs seem close to redline, but trust that it works. It may just take some practice.

Good luck with our No-lift shifting! I hope this response is helpful, and the type of information you were looking to see from the Camaro team.

Until next time,
Al O.
Very nice and informative answer Al and Camaro team! Thank you very much for the detailed response.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:18 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boost Creep View Post
That explains why the SS owners seem to go to red line while the 1LE seems to drop to the rpm for the next gear.

Thanks!
Yeah, not sure why NLS on a regular SS would have such a high rpm chosen? I mean it seems you would want it to drop down a little during the NLS to get ready for the next gear like on the SS 1LE/ZL1's? Having it stay at redline seems kinda odd no?
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:24 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SS 1LE View Post
Yeah, not sure why NLS on a regular SS would have such a high rpm chosen? I mean it seems you would want it to drop down a little during the NLS to get ready for the next gear like on the SS 1LE/ZL1's? Having it stay at redline seems kinda odd no?
Not really. It's more optimized for drag racing to help lurch the car into the next gear without loss of acceleration in the standard SS. The SS 1LE however, is clearly set to promote smooth NLS gear changes so it won't upset the car mid turn on track. Makes sense. Track calibration for the track pack car.
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Old 11-14-2017, 03:47 PM   #12
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Thanks Al!

This would make a nice addition to the high-performance owner's manual supplement.

Last edited by travislambert; 11-14-2017 at 04:17 PM.
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Old 11-14-2017, 04:04 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scoooter12 View Post
First, is that a typo for the target rpm on the LTG? 3400 seems real low
Shot in the dark - they are targeting peak torque or horsepower? Will be lower on a turbo car compared to NA. When the shift is over, you want the motor pulling hard.

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Old 11-14-2017, 04:32 PM   #14
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To get this clear, this is how it works?

e.g. on SS
-> 2nd Gear, reaching 5.500RPM
-> Pressing the clutch while staying on full throttle, the RPM raises to a maximum of 6400RPM
-> Going into 3rd Gear the active Rev Match get's the RPM to the optimum, so you can shift as fast as you can and release the clutch

Am I right?

Also: Is this feature included in european models?
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