KB BAP or a ZL1 pump?

[ginsberg2@hotmail.com]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

There are Many factors that play in to this, it is not really this cut and dry.

Here are a Bunch of Examples to chew on.

The Vortech supercharger is more efficient than a PD blower so you will see Higher RWHP numbers before any fuel pressure loss is recorded.

You also have to Define LS3 or L99, for an L99 you would have to lower your predictions by 50 RWHP.

You can also Chop your numbers by about 25-50 RWHP for PD blowers

There is a Big difference if your recording Fuel pressure with a Full tank of fuel or a 1/4 tank of fuel.

At a 1/4 tank of fuel Pressure will drop at significanly quicker than a full tank.

The Other Factor is How long your at WOT on a Dyno VS on the 1/4 Mile, this is when we really start to see Fuel Pressure Drop Texas Mile cars can have issues that 1/4 mile cars would never see.

Actual AFR will Play a Roll in Fuel Pressure, If We command 12.0 and the fuel pressure might be OK but command 11.3 and the fuel pressure could tank.

Larger injectors also allow more wiggle room since the injector opening time is less than with smaller injectors which can get in to a situation where all the injectors are open at (Nearly) the same time.

There is More time between injector events for the fuel system to recover with larger injectors.

I have made the recommendations many many times but they seem to fall on Deaf Ears.

I always listen to big daddy jannetty.

[BLACK10]

Originally Posted by JANNETTYRACING

I know You Know this but your post comes off as just a fuel pump discussion, then you say you are on 100% meth.

Just to educate the public I share this.

To run 100% Meth your Not putting a load on the fuel pump to support anywhere near the power you are producing as 100% Meth is a Secondary Fuel system that is really reducing the load on the Fuel Pump so by right you could get away with a stock pump.

I have tested the stock pump against the ZL-1 Pump with MSD Voltage booster on the same car the same day at 640 RWHP LS3 Maggie Cam Headers, Due to Fuel Pressure Drop.

The fuel pressure was dropping to 52 PSI with the stock pump, So we installed a New ZL-1 Pump ran it on the dyno, then put a second ZL-1 Pump in because I thought there was something wrong with the first one as NEITHER ZL-1 Pump did as Well as the Stock Pump, Pressure was dropping to 48 PSI on both ZL-1 Pumps.

Weird I know but We did the Leg Work to test it, and did not see any improvement.

I am testing some different calibrations to run with the ZL-1 Fuel pump on the Regular SS Camaros.

The ZL-1 Pump is Great in a ZL-1 but I have not been impressed with it on the Regular SS Camaro.

Ted.

Yea that's why I mentioned the meth. Didn't want to mislead the o.p.

The injectors also play a big factor in the fp also.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by JProberts

Can someone here explain to me the difference between the KB-Bap and a MSD voltage booster. Are they doing the same? Forgive my ignorance just trying to understand how all this works together and why I would want one vs the other if i were using a blower on my 2SS with stock pump.

Thanks

They both do the same thing, increase voltage to the fuel pump control module when needed.

I prefer the MSD since it pulls power directly from the battery vs the stock wiring and it has a boost reference and Programable.

Ted.

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by realsquash

It will be available around Christmas time. We had it at Sema. It is plug and play, no relays, circuit breakers, fuses, etc to run either. At this time you'll still have to disable FSCM control and unplug the stock FSCM, but our unit has the CAN hardware already built in, just not programmed yet (firmware upgrade later). I think most people will be fine running it standalone though - you can boost reference with it, too.

Attachment 441757

Andy

Cool Can't wait to try one out.

Ted.

[mercedestech]

I was running a stock pump with my kenne bell bap turned all the way up and was losing pressure at 600rwhp (dropping to 48-49 psi). I have a whipple with 60lb FIC injectors. Only wanted to drop the tank once so I went with a LPE dual setup. Works flawlessly. ZL1 may work for some, but I didn't want to take a chance and I know it's a safe setup with room to grow.....having the alarm on my fuel pressure gauge go off at WOT under full boost was not something I ever want to happen again! Engines are expensive!

[East Coast Supercharging]

For those in need of a fuel pump booster, these are sold separately but come with an ECS supercharger kit.

They are preset ready to go, no dials to mess up or get moved by mistake.

[Jayrcr3]

FWIW, a few weeks ago in a thread much like this one, I stated I was making 650 rwhp with no issues on a ZL1 pump and MSD BAP. Ted told me while I may not be having issues with my car because it was tuned by one of the best, he told me to log my fuel pressure and see what was really happening.
The other day I finally got around to hooking up the EFI Live and doing some runs. With the booster set on 17.5v after 3lbs of boost my FP was falling off to about 49 psi as the engine reached red line. My A/F is rock solid at 11.4, but I will be looking for a new fuel pump before spring rolls around. The ZL1 pump doesn't have the ass for big hp. Many would argue that dropping the psi isn't bad as long as your tune is correct and the ecm can maintain the proper A/F ratio. This is probably correct, but I would think that the ZL1 pump is just sufficient at best, and probably not the safest option.
I can post the log in EFI live format if anyone would like to see it. I believe you can download a trial version of efi live and it will allow you to see my log for free, but I could be wrong about that.

Jay

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

[UNRIVALED SS]

I would like to see some real world test done on some these components to see exactly what volume of flow they are capable of. It's the same old issue. We all wan to make the most power for the least expense. The power cost money but we all still seem to be curious as to what one part will do versus another so forth and so on. Understanding that pressure is inversely related to flow, that pump must increase volume to maitain pressure. I really hate to do it but I may have to break down and play mad scientist with this stuff to get to the bottom of it . However, I have a feeling some guys a whole smarter than me already have the real hard numbers on this stuff (don't pull your hair out Mr. Jannetty). There are so many variables between engine combos what works for one isn't useable for another. Real world flow numbers through X size injector and max duty cycle for Y amount of time. I think that might be the only way to kill this question once and for all.

[realsquash]

That might be 49 psi today but it might be 40 next summer. You should have at least a little breathing room.

Andy

[ss/rs-matt]

Andy can you PM me a price on your set up? Thanks!

[ss/rs-matt]

I wired my KB BAP input straight to the battery. Would there be any harm in wiring the output of the BAP to the fuel control module and the pump in parallel? Has anyone tried this? I understand the pump receives PWM at part throttle but its still just a DC motor. I would think that a momentary bump at WOT would work to keep pressure up.

[SUKXOST]

I have a 1LE build monday. The 1LEs come with the ZL1 fuel pump and I have FIC 850 injectors so shouldn't be any problems but I'm concerned about the earlier statement that the stock pump did better. We will see I guess

[JANNETTYRACING]

Originally Posted by Jayrcr3

FWIW, a few weeks ago in a thread much like this one, I stated I was making 650 rwhp with no issues on a ZL1 pump and MSD BAP. Ted told me while I may not be having issues with my car because it was tuned by one of the best, he told me to log my fuel pressure and see what was really happening.
The other day I finally got around to hooking up the EFI Live and doing some runs. With the booster set on 17.5v after 3lbs of boost my FP was falling off to about 49 psi as the engine reached red line. My A/F is rock solid at 11.4, but I will be looking for a new fuel pump before spring rolls around. The ZL1 pump doesn't have the ass for big hp. Many would argue that dropping the psi isn't bad as long as your tune is correct and the ecm can maintain the proper A/F ratio. This is probably correct, but I would think that the ZL1 pump is just sufficient at best, and probably not the safest option.
I can post the log in EFI live format if anyone would like to see it. I believe you can download a trial version of efi live and it will allow you to see my log for free, but I could be wrong about that.

Jay

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

Exactly what I expected you to see.

[stanwilliams]

Originally Posted by Jayrcr3

FWIW, a few weeks ago in a thread much like this one, I stated I was making 650 rwhp with no issues on a ZL1 pump and MSD BAP. Ted told me while I may not be having issues with my car because it was tuned by one of the best, he told me to log my fuel pressure and see what was really happening.
The other day I finally got around to hooking up the EFI Live and doing some runs. With the booster set on 17.5v after 3lbs of boost my FP was falling off to about 49 psi as the engine reached red line. My A/F is rock solid at 11.4, but I will be looking for a new fuel pump before spring rolls around. The ZL1 pump doesn't have the ass for big hp. Many would argue that dropping the psi isn't bad as long as your tune is correct and the ecm can maintain the proper A/F ratio. This is probably correct, but I would think that the ZL1 pump is just sufficient at best, and probably not the safest option.
I can post the log in EFI live format if anyone would like to see it. I believe you can download a trial version of efi live and it will allow you to see my log for free, but I could be wrong about that.

Jay

Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

Were you logging the Injector pressure delta or do you have an aftermarket sensor on the fuel rail??? 49 psi delta with 10 lbs boost is really 59psi at the rail.