Kenne Bell vs Whipple

[MARZ]

Originally Posted by HufferSS

Clearly you are not reading what everyone seems to be saying with any objectivity either.....because you somehow think that your opinion matters more than others.



You might not care about any of the other "respected tuners" who have posted but I think most of the fence sitters in this thread do. What I fail to understand is why you think you bring anything different or better to the discussion.......inflated sense of self maybe?

I can say this...I am about to SC my car.....I have investigated all of the major SC manufacturers and still haven't decided what way to go....but there is one thing that is crystal clear and that is that it won't be a KB.

Not because of any quality issue or an IAT issue but rather the way they responded to negative publicity. That is always hard to take and not become defensive but I think the sign of a truly quality company is one that CAN and WILL listen. You don't need to agree....but you don't need guys like you and the ST guy coming in with a beligerent attitude as though these other tuners are idiots.

You might think it is putting you in a positive light or painting you as some kind of authority figure.....but you are WAAAY wrong.

I find it ironic that Jim Bell ended posts made to Ted Jannetty and the Torq guys with something along the lines of, "but you're Whipple dealers," when, seemingly, the only guys not having trouble with KB IAT's are Adam @ Spankin' Time Motorsports and Revolution, both of whom are KB dealers. I guess I'm with you -- are Mr. Jannetty, the guys at Torq and the rest of the folks having issues with KB incompetent idiots with an anti-Kenne Bell agenda? Are tests conducted by Kenne Bell dealers the only ones correct and relevant to the discussion at hand?

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by HufferSS

Clearly you are not reading what everyone seems to be saying with any objectivity either.....because you somehow think that your opinion matters more than others.

Just like you and everyone else on the forum I have a voice here and I am trying to let it be heard. Opinions are opinions and that is that.



You might not care about any of the other "respected tuners" who have posted but I think most of the fence sitters in this thread do. What I fail to understand is why you think you bring anything different or better to the discussion.......inflated sense of self maybe?

I have seen many calibrations including some respected tuners around the country one of which makes his living simply doing tunes and nothing more. Maybe before you start looking at what the tuners say is gospel you should see just how many successful builds they have that they have actually done more than load a file into the car. Where I come from we don't just do tunes we build cars from the ground up. You can call it inflated but the clients we deal with and the outcomes we deliver back themselves up.

I can say this...I am about to SC my car.....I have investigated all of the major SC manufacturers and still haven't decided what way to go....but there is one thing that is crystal clear and that is that it won't be a KB.

And Just like opinions, Everyone has one.

Not because of any quality issue or an IAT issue but rather the way they responded to negative publicity. That is always hard to take and not become defensive but I think the sign of a truly quality company is one that CAN and WILL listen. You don't need to agree....but you don't need guys like you and the ST guy coming in with a belligerent attitude as though these other tuners are idiots.

No one is beling beligerant. I am saying you want apples for apples I will physically unbolt a KB and bolt on a whipple and run the same damn car 8 hours later. And the simple fact is some of these other tuners have an agenda and are following it. Anyone with a shop address and a buisness licence can sell magnacharger and anyone that has the same thing plus about 5-6 blowers lined up to be sold can sell whipple..

You might think it is putting you in a positive light or painting you as some kind of authority figure.....but you are WAAAY wrong.

I never stated I am an authority figure. The fact of the matter is I not only grew up on procharger. They have supported me and vice versa for many years I invite you to google search RevolutionRaceWorks and see what you get from the silverado community. I am trying to get some other opinions out there on ken bell simply because this has been an out and out slaughter on their product by several people who are not infact dealers and are tuners. My Agenda is not at all to sell KB products let me tell you the straight facts on that. I make more money custom fabricating a turbo kit and can build more potential than I ever could with a twin screw. KB offers me no extra discounts no kickbacks I am a dealer like all of his other dealers. MY agenda is to show my OPINION on the situation with the information and research I have made on my own and seen first hand. If you don't like my opinions that's great move on. I am trying to offer another view to the people who are on the fence as you say. I don't see you guys attacking procharger on their kits because if you were I would be in that thread also giving my two cents. And if you would like a resume of where I come from what I have to offer and what my track record is with customers builds cars and how fast the vehicles I build are I would be glad to provide that to you.

[Turbo99]

test away.....but if you do an honest test, you will see the same as everyone else but KB.......

Can I ask if you get nothing for being a dealer....then why be a dealer? If you don't think the way they handled/represented themselves in this thread is wrong then I can guarantee nobody here will give 2 shits what your tests say if you think what KB has done here is right.

[Supercharged SS]

Then down with procharger too!! As a matter of fact, all the superchargers are garbage. I'm just gonna strap on a 1000 shot and be relieved of all my high iat problems for good!

[Revolution]

test away.....but if you do an honest test, you will see the same as everyone else but KB.......

If I was swayed by the dollar sir I would be building lifted trucks where I live. It's not about money to me, it's about doing what you like to do. It's always been that for me. My previous career paid me much more than restoring cars and doing performance work. I just couldn't stay in a career that was less rewarding. The only swinging I will ever do is off my own tree.

Can I ask if you get nothing for being a dealer....then why be a dealer? If you don't think the way they handled/represented themselves in this thread is wrong then I can guarantee nobody here will give 2 shits what your tests say if you think what KB has done here is right.

I have no problem answering that at all, I am a dealer because I being able to offer people every choice out there. In fact the reason I am not a Whipple dealer has zero issue to do with cost. Their policy asks that as a dealer if you carry other products you try to sell the customer theirs above all first. I don't agree with trying to sell someone something they don't want or need. There are several cars I am in the works with now two of which are Mopar's I don't love the Mopar I grew up a bowtie guy, but I like the vision of the end product. If the customer wants to do a procharger or a turbo or god forbid a KB then I want to be able to offer that to them. It's about being able to give people whatever they want. If you come in with a rat rod and want me to do a body drop and it's something I can do I am all for it. But if you come in and ask me to do that and I don't own a welder I can't help you. It wouldn't be smart business to not have a welder. I will be perfectly candid and say that I have no loyalty to any dealer but only to the project and the customer which in turn is loyalty to what I want.

And if no one really cares about the outcome of a test then if that is the case I will really not waste my time then. I really have more important things to do like get the turbo kit mockup squared away.

[DarricSS]

All the regulars on this board that have been around a while have heard the "I will do an Unbiased test" for you guys before...

There are only 2 people/shops that have actually stuck to their word and done a test similar to what you are offering...and that has gone a LONG LONG way in credibility and proving that they truly are top notch stand up types...

[honeybucket99]

Originally Posted by Revolution

And if no one really cares about the outcome of a test then if that is the case I will really not waste my time then. I really have more important things to do like get the turbo kit mockup squared away.
[/I]

Actually, I'd be thankful for any testing you or anyone else could post. I don't understand the cult of personality that seems to have infected this board lately The data posted thus far does not settle the issues raised imo, so please test and post.

[mikepage0007]

Originally Posted by honeybucket99

Actually, I'd be thankful for any testing you or anyone else could post. I don't understand the cult of personality that seems to have infected this board lately The data posted thus far does not settle the issues raised imo, so please test and post.

i agree, there can never be enough testing done..if it was not for this posts, kb would of never found the whipple calibration issue..now that is fairly new issue that has yet to be determined....but if it is indeed a incorrect calibration, how long would that have gone on un noticed..some of us are on our own trying new and diff things..i think our own chiller/unchiller track tested et, will also shed some light on whether iats play a role in time slips..test away , please...wouldn,t mind hearing how the turbo,s are cooming along...too

[Turbo99]

I think the cooler is only going to allow us to run more safely by lowering IATs, maybe not so much power gain/loss. Your tuner should be able to tell you at what point of IATs he starts pulling timing and how much. So instead of having to run some race fuel we can stick with 93 and not be on the edge.

[Stark]

Originally Posted by honeybucket99

Actually, I'd be thankful for any testing you or anyone else could post. I don't understand the cult of personality that seems to have infected this board lately The data posted thus far does not settle the issues raised imo, so please test and post.

I'll 3rd this, test away.
Never hurts to have another set of eyes looking at a issue....

[red 2011 ss]

Originally Posted by honeybucket99

Actually, I'd be thankful for any testing you or anyone else could post. I don't understand the cult of personality that seems to have infected this board lately The data posted thus far does not settle the issues raised imo, so please test and post.

[mikepage0007]

Originally Posted by Turbo99

I think the cooler is only going to allow us to run more safely by lowering IATs, maybe not so much power gain/loss. Your tuner should be able to tell you at what point of IATs he starts pulling timing and how much. So instead of having to run some race fuel we can stick with 93 and not be on the edge.

i agree on the cooler, just a safety precaution ...but i have to disagree on the 100 octane ...i feel much safer hitting the track with a 5 gallon hit of race gas to top off my 1/4 tank of 93, just in case i were to get some bad gas...we know it only takes one bad tank and bammmm....the 5 gallon 100 octane should help to balance whats in my tank..in case ...just another safety precaution..would not run any higher then the 100 as it runs hotter..

[Supercharged SS]

Originally Posted by mikepage0007

i agree on the cooler, just a safety precaution ...but i have to disagree on the 100 octane ...i feel much safer hitting the track with a 5 gallon hit of race gas to top off my 1/4 tank of 93, just in case i were to get some bad gas...we know it only takes one bad tank and bammmm....the 5 gallon 100 octane should help to balance whats in my tank..in case ...just another safety precaution..would not run any higher then the 100 as it runs hotter..

5 gallons! After loosing one engine to detonation I haven't run at the track without a full tank of 104. $200 is quite a bit less than a rebuild and no breaks = no downtime. The worse part is actually using the car enough to empty the tank.

For all you few gallon adders....remember that the Camaro gas tank is like two separate tanks. Adding 5 gallons to a car with say a half tank doesnt mean you'll get it to the pump. Last year we were experiment on teds dyno and we found that 7 gallons added to a half tank car never fully mixed and we got knock and subsequently timing pulled. Even with 195 degree iat's in 85 degree heat with the full tank if 104 we have yet to see any knock. Just some food for thought! Don't won't to see anyone grenade an engine!

[Revolution]

Originally Posted by Supercharged SS

5 gallons! After loosing one engine to detonation I haven't run at the track without a full tank of 104. $200 is quite a bit less than a rebuild and no breaks = no downtime. The worse part is actually using the car enough to empty the tank.

For all you few gallon adders....remember that the Camaro gas tank is like two separate tanks. Adding 5 gallons to a car with say a half tank doesnt mean you'll get it to the pump. Last year we were experiment on teds dyno and we found that 7 gallons added to a half tank car never fully mixed and we got knock and subsequently timing pulled. Even with 195 degree iat's in 85 degree heat with the full tank if 104 we have yet to see any knock. Just some food for thought! Don't won't to see anyone grenade an engine!

You do know that just throwing 104 in when the car is tuned for 93 it will not perform quite right.. I am hoping you have a 104 tune for it if you run 104.. We only have 91 available in Vegas or 100 I run E85 but it's a totally different calibration for the higher octane fuel. Just throwin it out there. I am sure you have it dialed in for it.