Valvetrain etc plans and questions

[Marknbacon]

Hello all. I have decided that I just don’t have enough power. After some extensive searching and research, I came up with a plan, but it also left me with some more questions, and the more research I do the more questions come up.

I’ll start with the basics: 2015 camaro SS, 6-speed manual, bone stock except for a k&n CAI and some cosmetic upgrades (LED headlights, Phastek sequential tail lights.) As of today, 36,500 miles. It is also daily driven and must remain so.

Plans: cam (and associated components), headers, and hopefully eventually a supercharger, and of course a custom dyno tune whenever appropriate.

I’m open to suggestion on brand/specs of parts, but I’ve got my eye on certain hardware.
Cam: TSP stage 2 supercharged, with dual coil springs and trunion upgrades.
Headers: kooks long tube with high flow cats.
Eventual supercharger: whipple 2.9L twin screw.

Questions:
Cam 1: I’ve read that supercharger cams are fine to run NA while you save for superchargers but is there a limit on this that anyone has seen? Obviously an NA cam would do better but I would like to save some money. Or should I just swap the cam again once I get the SC? It would only be a few hundred more since I would have already done the springs, trunions, etc.
cam 2: I’m not planning on changing my lifters from stock. I’ve read that they’ll be fine as they’re hydraulic rollers but I’ve gotten some feedback from friends that they should probably be changed. I don’t particularly want to pull the heads but I will if I need to.
Cam 3: I’ve read 100 different opinions on break in. Should I use break in oil? I’ve read the zinc will ruin cats but those are a lot easier to change than a cam. I know I’ll need to heat cycle the springs. Any other break in knowledge I should know going into this?
Cam 4: spring height. Should I check it and shim or will it be fine?
Cam 5: push rod length. I have the stuff to check it but I cannot for the life of me find the stock full travel specs on stock lifters. I suspect I’ll end up ordering 7.4” rods but I want to check to make sure.

Header 1: did anyone have any trouble changing headers without a car lift? I’m probably going to put it on cribs so I can actually fit under the car.

Supercharger 1: this will have to wait for a while. Im not strapped for cash but I’m also not made of money. I would love to see some installs of the whipple system. Yes I’ve considered a pro charger centi system and I think I would rather have the twin screw system.

Thanks in advance all. If I think of more questions I’ll post them here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[olblue75]

I would buy a quality lifter like Johnson or Morels.
If your pulling heads to swap lifter go through the heads and machine shop should check them also, might wanna change springs as well to keep up with the cam.
I did headers on my SS with jack stands wasn’t the funnest task ever but I took my time cleaned all the bolt holes and bolts with brake cleaner and a retreader, used anti seize on everything like header bolts and plugs good time for new plugs as well.
Might wanna buy new lifter trays as well with new lifter cheap insurance.

[gtstorey]

How much power are shooting for and still keep it a daily driver? In my mind the power levels for a daily driver could be met with a supercharger alone plus maybe headers. All of the other stuff will go along way toward paying for a supercharger.

[Marknbacon]

Originally Posted by gtstorey

How much power are shooting for and still keep it a daily driver? In my mind the power levels for a daily driver could be met with a supercharger alone plus maybe headers. All of the other stuff will go along way toward paying for a supercharger.

I was hoping for the low 500’s rwhp but I’m to the point of “I guess we will see what we can get.”

Interestingly enough, the cam, valve springs, trunion upgrade and all the tools, fluids, and gaskets to change the cam are the cheapest part.

The headers I’m looking at are around $1700.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RobZL1]

Lots of opinions on this stuff. Here are mine:

Stock lifters should be fine at 36k miles. As long as it's not some crazy high lift and ridiculous spring pressure (which it won't be with a TSP stage 2 cam), you'll be fine. None of the big-name shops would replace lifters at 36k miles.

Springs and pushrods- if you're not pulling the heads, just throw the pushrods and springs in there, and check preload on a couple of rockers. The factory didn't check the pushrod length when they built the motor - and those big-name mod shops don't check the length either when they use a known/proven package.

No need for break-in oil for a cam swap. Just use assembly lube on the cam, put in your oil of choice, and go to town. I'd recommend 5w30 in Joe Gibbs, Redline, or Amsoil. I use Redline in my cammed car.

Throw that supercharger cam in there while N/A, and you'll be fine. It will still be a hotter cam than stock.

[gtstorey]

Originally Posted by Marknbacon

I was hoping for the low 500’s rwhp but I’m to the point of “I guess we will see what we can get.”

Interestingly enough, the cam, valve springs, trunion upgrade and all the tools, fluids, and gaskets to change the cam are the cheapest part.

The headers I’m looking at are around $1700.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The supercharger/headers alone would get you to that point.

Headers for $1500? You aren't getting anything extra for your money.

[acammer]

Lifter decision is really dependent on the car (L99's doing a AFM delete need lifters), the cam and the intended RPM usage. Under 7000 rpm LS3/7 lifters are just fine. Once you cross that mark you're creeping into the danger zone, although many of us have taken them a lot further. Stick cars also always have the potential for an unintended free-rev, or worse, mechanical over-rev, so if you're a gear banger some added insurance is something to consider as well.

All that said, if you're doing a PD blower cam, then I don't think you'll plan on swinging north of 7,000rpm, and I would run those 36k lifters (assuming you're not doing a AFM delete in an auto car).

I also suggest take a hard look at what we offer with a GPI camshaft. We have a dedicated line of PD blower cams for all applications, mild to wild. We've got one of the best cam lobes in the business, and we've poured a TON of R&D into our grinds to optimize performance for every application. What's even more important is that we have a strong commitment to top notch customer service.

If you're interested in a cam package from GPI, I'd be happy to help. You can feel free to shoot me a message on here and we can talk through exactly what would be right for you. Also, we carry Kooks, so we can handle that too if you're so inclined. No pressure.

[Avenging Orange]

Best advise I can offer....find a reputable speed shop and talk to them. So many things depend on others.
Personally, if I were going the forced induction route...id stick with stock cam or a small upgrade....so I could stay stock valvetrain. Let the super/turbo charger do what it was meant to do.
I wish you luck. Take your time...ask questions and read, read, read.

[WHAMMO]

Originally Posted by Marknbacon

Hello all. I have decided that I just don’t have enough power. After some extensive searching and research, I came up with a plan, but it also left me with some more questions, and the more research I do the more questions come up.

I’ll start with the basics: 2015 camaro SS, 6-speed manual, bone stock except for a k&n CAI and some cosmetic upgrades (LED headlights, Phastek sequential tail lights.) As of today, 36,500 miles. It is also daily driven and must remain so.

Plans: cam (and associated components), headers, and hopefully eventually a supercharger, and of course a custom dyno tune whenever appropriate.

I’m open to suggestion on brand/specs of parts, but I’ve got my eye on certain hardware.
Cam: TSP stage 2 supercharged, with dual coil springs and trunion upgrades.
Headers: kooks long tube with high flow cats.
Eventual supercharger: whipple 2.9L twin screw.

Questions:
Cam 1: I’ve read that supercharger cams are fine to run NA while you save for superchargers but is there a limit on this that anyone has seen? Obviously an NA cam would do better but I would like to save some money. Or should I just swap the cam again once I get the SC? It would only be a few hundred more since I would have already done the springs, trunions, etc.
cam 2: I’m not planning on changing my lifters from stock. I’ve read that they’ll be fine as they’re hydraulic rollers but I’ve gotten some feedback from friends that they should probably be changed. I don’t particularly want to pull the heads but I will if I need to.
Cam 3: I’ve read 100 different opinions on break in. Should I use break in oil? I’ve read the zinc will ruin cats but those are a lot easier to change than a cam. I know I’ll need to heat cycle the springs. Any other break in knowledge I should know going into this?
Cam 4: spring height. Should I check it and shim or will it be fine?
Cam 5: push rod length. I have the stuff to check it but I cannot for the life of me find the stock full travel specs on stock lifters. I suspect I’ll end up ordering 7.4” rods but I want to check to make sure.

Header 1: did anyone have any trouble changing headers without a car lift? I’m probably going to put it on cribs so I can actually fit under the car.

Supercharger 1: this will have to wait for a while. Im not strapped for cash but I’m also not made of money. I would love to see some installs of the whipple system. Yes I’ve considered a pro charger centi system and I think I would rather have the twin screw system.

Thanks in advance all. If I think of more questions I’ll post them here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would go step by step. Exhaust, gears, tune and maybe see how you like it.



Then youll see if you want a cam. Get a custom cam or just dont care and go with a texas speed stage 3 231-236(old version). Get light wheels, a rod mod manifold intake, ported TB, UD pulley.



I think its a waste of time to go half mod because you think youll goo supercharged; life is full of surprise and by the time you'll be ready to buy supercharger, you might change your plans, sell the car , etc.


If you are set on FI, just buy the supercharger now. I went the NA road and I am over basic supercharger setup, but the car is a beast.



So youll be stuck with a half as s setup at every step if you mod things for FI and you never go FI...

[Marknbacon]

Thank you all for your input. I’ve got some answers I need and here’s what I’ve gathered:

Lifters: unless I’m running a crazy cam or had a high mileage car, don’t worry about them. I don’t have vvt or afm so I shouldn’t have to worry about pulling the heads unless I want them worked on.

Cam: from what I’ve read, if I were to go crazy on the lift I would need to rebuild the bottom end anyway to put pistons with better valve clearance in anyway. I’m not so it should be fine. That being said the more I think about it the more I realize that it may be a better idea to build it for NA first, then put on a SC and do another cam swap once I get there.

Headers: ok so I realize where I was looking had them marked way up. GPI has a much better price so I’ll probably get them from them. Speaking to the price, that’s with the cats. I’m not going straight pipes. If this wasn’t a daily, I would probably consider straight pipes but I’ll need to have cats on them.

Valve spring tool was supposed to be here yesterday but it’s running late, so hopefully today I’ll actually have time to work on it a bit to double check the pushrod length.

As far as break in goes, I’ll just plan on heat treating.

Thanks again. If anyone has any additional input feel free to add.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[taz1727]

Originally Posted by Marknbacon

Thank you all for your input. I’ve got some answers I need and here’s what I’ve gathered:

Lifters: unless I’m running a crazy cam or had a high mileage car, don’t worry about them. I don’t have vvt or afm so I shouldn’t have to worry about pulling the heads unless I want them worked on.

Cam: from what I’ve read, if I were to go crazy on the lift I would need to rebuild the bottom end anyway to put pistons with better valve clearance in anyway. I’m not so it should be fine. That being said the more I think about it the more I realize that it may be a better idea to build it for NA first, then put on a SC and do another cam swap once I get there.

Headers: ok so I realize where I was looking had them marked way up. GPI has a much better price so I’ll probably get them from them. Speaking to the price, that’s with the cats. I’m not going straight pipes. If this wasn’t a daily, I would probably consider straight pipes but I’ll need to have cats on them.

Valve spring tool was supposed to be here yesterday but it’s running late, so hopefully today I’ll actually have time to work on it a bit to double check the pushrod length.

As far as break in goes, I’ll just plan on heat treating.

Thanks again. If anyone has any additional input feel free to add.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm running a GPI SS3 cam which has a pretty high lift (for a shelf cam), I'm spinning to 7K and a bottom end build is not necessary at all. Now if you're gonna go crazy on boost through FI, then yes build the bottom end. If you think you'll spend a long time between the cam and supercharging, I would go N/A cam as well, if only a couple of months in between then just get a PD cam. The guys at GPI are a great source source of info and can guide you through your build, give em a call. Good luck!

[christianchevell]

Run at least some br30 driven racing break in oil for 500 miles or so and get a 8620 core, down the road many things you can do like bushed rockers, go with high volume pump, better chain, read up things matter.... things like toes and trailing arms, seperate reservoir for a clutch, even a catch can.....etc good luck a good shop is essential or at least a good dyno tuner in your area as remote tuning has to be done with shops that do that and a hand held and does not always work out so then you have to data log etc.... and a supercharger is expensive investment on a non forged engine.... best advice.... think of everything.....first, even a good balancer can help longevity...

old article ..god advice...... still true
https://www.hotrod.com/articles/hrdp...parts-failure/

[Marknbacon]

Alright so I learned some things today. First I learned that using a pushrod length checker is a bit of a pain in the butt. I believe I got 10.75 turns, which would be about 7.3375 inches. But, stock length is 7.4 so I’ll probably go with that when purchased.

I also learned that the pushrod needs to be in the same way it was taken out. And extra attention needs to be taken when reinstalling the rocker arm. I put it all back together and had a tick. I didn’t notice it before but I wasn’t paying as close attention before now. Well I tore it back apart, flipped the pushrod and tightened everything back up and made sure the rockers were seated correctly then reassembled. Fired it up and it sounded bad. Real bad. Turned it off and realized that I forgot to plug the spark plug wires back in.... did that and fired it back up and besides the gas smell it ran great. No tick. So I’m back to where I was before. Actually it sounds better I think. Probably just the “I low key messed with my car and didn’t screw it up” effect.

Now I know what to order. Anyone have any idea when TSP will have 8620 cores available again? Says they’re out of stock. As far as GPI goes they look like they have a solid product. I’m considering them but I know some people that know people at TSP, and have several other positive experiences from people I work with that have used them.

Now let’s talk trunion upgrades. Comp seems to have a failure rate on their bearing. Are the CHE ones that much better? I’m a little Leary of putting brass bushings in instead of bearings. (I work in industrial maintenance.) what do y’all recommend? Any other brands with good long term durability?

Thanks guys!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RobZL1]

CHE. There's a thread about this not too long ago. I'll find it and add to my post.

Edit:
https://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=576258

See page 2.
.
.