Can ZL1 compete with GTR

[HumanWiki]

I'd love to have launch (1-2 gears) only awd on the Camaro... As long as it didn't kill the weight, which it would... Front wheel electric motors, etc.. Something... That would really cut some of our 1/4 mi times down with the added benefit of being able to turn it off and go in to RWD only mode..

[GoldenBear]

At $90,000 the GT-R is not in the same price category as the ZL1. For $35,000 plus more, I would expect the GT-R to have better performance numbers than the ZL1.

For me the ZL1 has a better price/performance ratio.

[JusticePete]

Our differences in opinion stem from our optics. While I disagree with you I do not claim you are wrong.

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

If it's a Ferrari from 2012 yes in the same way a Camaro LS/LT isn't a Muscle Car because it cannot complete with the Muscle Cars of Today, 40 years ago means nothing.

Fair enough.

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

The Porsche Panamera Turbo is the fastest Production Sedan Nurburgring not the CTS-V just to let you know.

The Panamera sells in limited volume at about 2,500 units a year while the CTS has averaged 50,000 per year since it was introduced. Bentley builds and sell about 5,000 automobiles a year. You would be hard pressed to convince a Bentley owner they just bought a production car. I am not convinced that the sales of the Panamera qualify it as a production car.

A year after the CTS-V set the production sedan record and stunned the Euro MFGs, a Porsche Panamera did beat the CTS-V time set by John Heinricy. The Porsche was fit with an over boost option and ceramic brake option as they were IMO desperate to prove the value of the limited production Panamera. From my view, the CTS-V still holds the record for the World's Fastest Production Sedan and I also believe the current CTS-V would be significantly faster that with one John drove.

Originally Posted by The IOM Ninja

The ZR1 is a Sports Car every Corvette is a Sports Car as was the Ford Thunderbird.

The Ford Thunderbird and the Corvette occupied the same space for two model years as a two seat American car. The Thunderbird was described as a two seat personal luxury car for those two years and then grew to four seats. When it returned to the two seat format in 2002 it was still a personal luxury car 300HP while the Vette was shipping with 400HP. T-Bird never was and never will be a Corvette which does not detract from legend of the T-Bird.

The 1965 Corvette had a Big Block option and IMO became a Muscle car during the Golden Age of Muscle Cars. We are now in the Platinum age of Muscle Cars and the Corvette is available with a 427 / LS7. Every Vette comes with a ground pounding AMERICAN V8. The Corvette is without a doubt world class in all round performance, but still a Muscle Car and I would hope proud of it.

[The IOM Ninja]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

Our differences in opinion stem from our optics. While I disagree with you I do not claim you are wrong.

Fair enough.



The Panamera sells in limited volume at about 2,500 units a year while the CTS has averaged 50,000 per year since it was introduced. Bentley builds and sell about 5,000 automobiles a year. You would be hard pressed to convince a Bentley owner they just bought a production car. I am not convinced that the sales of the Panamera qualify it as a production car.

A year after the CTS-V set the production sedan record and stunned the Euro MFGs, a Porsche Panamera did beat the CTS-V time set by John Heinricy. The Porsche was fit with an over boost option and ceramic brake option as they were IMO desperate to prove the value of the limited production Panamera. From my view, the CTS-V still holds the record for the World's Fastest Production Sedan and I also believe the current CTS-V would be significantly faster that with one John drove.



The Ford Thunderbird and the Corvette occupied the same space for two model years as a two seat American car. The Thunderbird was described as a two seat personal luxury car for those two years and then grew to four seats. When it returned to the two seat format in 2002 it was still a personal luxury car 300HP while the Vette was shipping with 400HP. T-Bird never was and never will be a Corvette which does not detract from legend of the T-Bird.

The 1965 Corvette had a Big Block option and IMO became a Muscle car during the Golden Age of Muscle Cars. We are now in the Platinum age of Muscle Cars and the Corvette is available with a 427 / LS7. Every Vette comes with a ground pounding AMERICAN V8. The Corvette is without a doubt world class in all round performance, but still a Muscle Car and I would hope proud of it.

Then the CTS-V is the fastest regular production sedan.

[Ltespd]

The Corvette has muscle car aspects...but its a 2 seat sports car.

When you look at all the "muscle cars" there is usually a low budget, low powered, entry version of it. Then various bolt on parts are added to increase the performance. A sports car, much like the Corvette, was designed and built to be a performer. Even the base Corvette.

[JusticePete]

Sports Cars?





















So what is a Sports Car?

[Cowboy from Hell]

I think it'd really difficult to define nowadays what makes a car a "supercar"... a lot of journalists seem to slap the term on pretty much any vehicle with 500+BHP.

But really it comes down to the individual, everybody has a slightly different take on what makes a "supercar"..... lets face it they have classed some of the new ultra performance cars as "Hypercars".

One publication defined the phrase supercar as "a car that is superior to all others".

For me though a Supercar has to be something very special, it has to have a sense of occasion about it, it has to make me feel like a kid a Christmas every time i even think about it.

The GTR (although great) is a little too pedestrian to be in that category, as are a lot of others that are called supercars by the press.

That's just my opinion.

[Cowboy from Hell]

I sports car is generally defined as a 2 Door, 2 Seat car that is light weight, designed with great handling and performance in mind.

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by Cowboy from Hell

I sports car is generally defined as a 2 Door, 2 Seat car that is light weight, designed with great handling and performance in mind.

Exactly. Then I started thinking about the range of cars that have fit that category over the years. A Corvair and a Ferrari? A Vette and a Miata? Sports Car covers a LOT of very different vehicles.

[Ltespd]

Originally Posted by Cowboy from Hell

I sports car is generally defined as a 2 Door, 2 Seat car that is light weight, designed with great handling and performance in mind.

[Wesman]

Originally Posted by MY1STCAMAR0

I'm going to say no...

You can find a 2009 GT-R for about $55k. If the ZL1 is in that range I'm probably going to go with the used GT-R. I really do hope the ZL1, is about $47-50k.

Yea, and you better set aside another $25,000 for a new transmissions for the GT-R as well. They are garbage.

[Wesman]

Originally Posted by DarkneSS

GTR is a 1/4 king. From a rolling start stock for stock Id put all my money on a ZL1, especially a higher roll(40 mph+).

Both the Z06 and the ZR1 destroy the GTR from a rolling start.

Its not even a race, especially with the ZR1.

They Z06 and ZR1 are much more powerful cars with much broader powerbands, better top end, and hundreds of pounds less weight.

Being that the ZL1 will weigh about the same as the GTR and have more horsepower and a better powerband, it should walk the GTR from a rolling start as well.

[Brad02SS]

From a rolling start the ZL1 will do fine with a GTR simply based on power to weight. The AWD gives the GTR an advantage on launches from a stop and for handling. I'd like to see a dyno graph for both cars to compare the power band rather than just looking at peak numbers.

[b4z]

I understand your point but Porsche sells more than 2500 Panameras a year.