New LFX M6 Nitrous Build - Info/Help Wanted

[cliffdog89]

I have a '12 LFX M6 that I am looking to get better than SS numbers out of without dropping 7K+ on a twin turbo or supercharger. After looking at a few LFX Camaro Builds - Specifically ETMS183 I have decided that a Nitrous system is probably my best bet to keep the upgrades under 3K

I am not in a rush to make the upgrade, I want to get all my ducks lined up first and figure out exactly what and what not to do ---- so I am turning to Camaro5 for help. I have listed out a lot of questions that I have below. If you can answer any or all awesome! If you have anything to add that I am completely overlooking please post. Thanks everyone in advance! I am looking forward to beating some V8s

As a final note, this car is a DD (Although I do have another car to drive while it is being worked on and I do most of my own work). With that said, I need to keep this car drive-able - I do not want it to be a track only car.

My current performance mods include:

Solo Mach-X exhaust (incorporated X-pipe)
Solo HFCs
Cold Air Inductions CAI
Vmax Ported throttle body
Apex Airscoop and washer bottle relocation kit

1. Probably the most obvious questions - which nitrous system? I am leaning most heavily toward the Ny-Trex Triple threat system but if there is another system I should consider please let me know.

2. Is a rear upgrade required? Obviously the stock 3.27 will blow up at a certain point but how much HP can I put into without concern?

3. If it is required - what goes into upgrading the rear? Is the 3.91 1LE gearing overkill for a V6?

4. And now for a very basic question How does the nitrous system work? (I am going to be researching into this but I figured someone could fill me in from your first hand experiences. some specific things I would like to know - how easy is it to install? Is it on (engaged) all the time? I know it is illegal outside of the track but say it were to be used on the street during normal everyday driving - does it only kick in at a certain RPM? Is there an on/off switch?

5. What sized shot should I be looking to use? 100? 125? 140?
5B. How long will an average sized can (fill in the blank) last using some of the above values?
5C. How much HP will each shot put out?

6. How far can I go without having to upgrade the clutch?

7. If a clutch upgrade is required, which should I go with?

8. How hard is it to get a good tune setup for daily driving with the nitrous system?

9. Are there any shops in the tri-state area that you would recommend for tuning the car?

10. Are rear suspension upgrades necessary (trailing arms and toe rods)?

11. I like my stock rims - yes I know they are ridiculous heavy but I like the look lol. Will the stock tires/rims hold up with hard launches from this system?

12. Upgrading the fuel pump - ZL1 pump seems the route of choice for this option, do we know what voltages need to be set to make this work?

13. Are there any upgrades or things to consider that I am overlooking?

I'm not a street racer and the car is my DD - but my goal for my build is to be able to beat semi stock V8s off the line and go to the track every now and then to put down decent times.

Any help and advice you can give me would be greatly appreciated!

[PoorMansCamaro]

Originally Posted by cliffdog89

1. Probably the most obvious questions - which nitrous system? I am leaning most heavily toward the Ny-Trex Triple threat system but if there is another system I should consider please let me know. Nitrous outlet is another good option. look at those two, and see which is the best deal. You can PM Nitro Dave. He can answer any questions that we might not be able to.

2. Is a rear upgrade required? Obviously the stock 3.27 will blow up at a certain point but how much HP can I put into without concern? With the manual, you have the same rear as the SS. Changing out the rear or the gears is not necessary.

3. If it is required - what goes into upgrading the rear? Is the 3.91 1LE gearing overkill for a V6? I would go with the nitrous, before the gears.

4. And now for a very basic question How does the nitrous system work? (I am going to be researching into this but I figured someone could fill me in from your first hand experiences. some specific things I would like to know - how easy is it to install? Is it on (engaged) all the time? I know it is illegal outside of the track but say it were to be used on the street during normal everyday driving - does it only kick in at a certain RPM? Is there an on/off switch? Nitrous is very easy to use. Most nitrous systems are now connected to the Throttle positioning system (TPS). meaning, the nitrous will start spraying once you go Wide Open Throttle (WOT). You will have a switch to turn on the nitrous (arm the nitrous), a switch to purge the line (need a purge kit. most sold separately, but ny-trex comes with it). You will also want a window switch. Which is a module that will prevent the nitrous from spraying too early and stop the nitrous from spraying at the top end, before hitting the rev limiter. You don't want to spray under 3k rpm. So the window switch is a preventative measure, so you don't spray early. Just smash the gas, and the nitrous will kick in at 3k rpm, or whenever you set it up to start spraying. You can also get a remote bottle opener, so you don't have to open your trunk to open and close the bottle. You will also want a bottle heater/warmer.

5. What sized shot should I be looking to use? 100? 125? 140? I would recommend starting off at 50 - 75shot. It's very easy to switch the jets (aka pills) for higher shots.
5B. How long will an average sized can (fill in the blank) last using some of the above values? I've never run more that 100 shot. I was able to get about 5 or 6 passes on the 1/4 mile with a 10lbs bottle
5C. How much HP will each shot put out? depending on who you go with, but the shot rating should be the HP rating. (ZEX for example, a 100shot gave me 100WHP). Some systems estimate their 100shot to give you 100crank HP.

6. How far can I go without having to upgrade the clutch? Nitrous should not affect your clutch use too much, as you will not be spraying until you are already rolling and up around 3krpm before you start spraying. So I would think the clutch would have normal wear and tear as racing without nitrous.

7. If a clutch upgrade is required, which should I go with? Don't know this answer.

8. How hard is it to get a good tune setup for daily driving with the nitrous system? with the LFX, tuning should be no issues. You will want a street tune, and a nitrous tune, that you can switch back and forth between. I would talk to a shop that has either EFI live or HP tuners.

9. Are there any shops in the tri-state area that you would recommend for tuning the car? Not sure

10. Are rear suspension upgrades necessary (trailing arms and toe rods)?Not necessary, but suspension work is always a big plus, when racing. I would recommend, at some point.

11. I like my stock rims - yes I know they are ridiculous heavy but I like the look lol. Will the stock tires/rims hold up with hard launches from this system? yes, they will hold up fine.

12. Upgrading the fuel pump - ZL1 pump seems the route of choice for this option, do we know what voltages need to be set to make this work? I don't know anything about this.

13. Are there any upgrades or things to consider that I am overlooking? You will also want to get 1 step cooler spark plugs. Some of the other LFX guys will chime in on what kind, i'm sure.

see blue text.

[cliffdog89]

Thanks PoorMansCamaro! Much Appreciated! I have searched around trying to verify that the M6 has the same rear as the SS and have found conflicting reports - do you have a source I could verify this? I will try searching some more myself.

EDIT: Apex chase knows all as usual: http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187735

[ksspeed]

Id say you guys hit it right on the head. The plugs have been a tough argument on some of the post, the best advice i can give at this point is to contact the different nitrous companys and ask their tech support, they are there for these questions. I personally also added fuel pressure safety switch, window switch, and a back to back nos solenoid to my system. Safety to myself and my investment is pretty important, but isnt required.

[cliffdog89]

Thanks - I definitely do not feel I can have too much safety with this system. Since I will be completely voiding my warranty I want to make sure this is as safe for the engine and car in general as possible.

Originally Posted by ksspeed

Id say you guys hit it right on the head. The plugs have been a tough argument on some of the post, the best advice i can give at this point is to contact the different nitrous companys and ask their tech support, they are there for these questions. I personally also added fuel pressure safety switch, window switch, and a back to back nos solenoid to my system. Safety to myself and my investment is pretty important, but isnt required.

[scrming]

Originally Posted by cliffdog89

Thanks - I definitely do not feel I can have too much safety with this system. Since I will be completely voiding my warranty I want to make sure this is as safe for the engine and car in general as possible.

You are NOT completely voiding your warranty... GM may deny your powertrain claims but you still have your warranty.... you need to understand your rights...

On a previous vehicle I had a faulty throttle position sensor replaced even though my nitrous kit was wired up in plain site... heck still had my numbers on the windshield from the track and my helmet in the back seat... service writer even asked, "Why do you have a helmet in your car?" and gave me a knowing smile... replaced my TPS under warranty...

[etmx183]

NGK = LTR7IX-11 plugs. Plug gap @.040" is what I run. Gap is something you may need to play with some, not every car likes the same thing. Low fuel pressure cutoff switch is a bare minimum safety MUST!!! NyTrex includes one in their kit. I'm sure Nitrous Outlet has one if it is not included in their kit.

[cliffdog89]

Originally Posted by etmx183

NGK = LTR7IX-11 plugs. Plug gap @.040" is what I run. Gap is something you may need to play with some, not every car likes the same thing. Low fuel pressure cutoff switch is a bare minimum safety MUST!!! NyTrex includes one in their kit. I'm sure Nitrous Outlet has one if it is not included in their kit.

Thanks for all the info guys. I have a few more questions.

So for safety I have so far:
Window switch - what range do you guys use? 3K-6K? With this setup I am guessing you launch the car at 3K or do you launch at 2500 and let the nos kick in a split second later?

Low fuel pressure cutoff.

back to back solenoids.

Some new questions I have from research.

The Ny-Trex triple threat system says it is good up to 100HP - If I would want to go further - say 125HP can I do that with this system?

Does the stock camaro rev limiter cut off fuel or ignition spark? If it cuts off fuel should I consider switching this out for a ignition cutoff to protect the engine if/when I hit the limiter?

Should I remove the rev limiter through a tune or play it safe and keep it?

Should I raise the rev limiter and if so to what level?

I understand that for a manual I should also have a clutch switch so I am not feeding nos into the engine while shifting - do you guys have a recommended switch to use?

This question is slightly unnecessary since I plan on tuning the car as soon as I install the nos system but prior to the tune is premium fuel necessary?

With adding premium fuel and nos into the system how much timing retardation is necessary to avoid knocking?

Having the two tunes (track vs street) - how quickly can these be swapped between? Do I just need to have a laptop in the car and switch between the two? Is it possible to tie the tune to the NOS on/off switch so that both are loaded on the ICU and only one is activated at any given time?

Does the Ny-Trex kit include a remote bottle opener? If not, which would you guys recommend?

What bottle heater would you suggest? is it safe to install the bottle and bottle heater in the spare tire well?

How do you guys route the nos from the rear of the car to the front? Are these components included with the Ny-Trex kit?

[Brandon@NitrousOutlet]

Originally Posted by etmx183

NGK = LTR7IX-11 plugs. Plug gap @.040" is what I run. Gap is something you may need to play with some, not every car likes the same thing. Low fuel pressure cutoff switch is a bare minimum safety MUST!!! NyTrex includes one in their kit. I'm sure Nitrous Outlet has one if it is not included in their kit.

We recommend a Brisk RR14S plug for these cars. Its a copper non-projected plug. Why we recommend copper plugs in particular is we want the plug to melt down as a last line of defense against a lean condition/hot cylinder. I agree a FPSS is always recommended.

[Brandon@NitrousOutlet]

Originally Posted by cliffdog89

Thanks for all the info guys. I have a few more questions.

So for safety I have so far:
Window switch - what range do you guys use? 3K-6K? With this setup I am guessing you launch the car at 3K or do you launch at 2500 and let the nos kick in a split second later?You want to be sure to cut the system off a couple hundred RPM before the Rev limiter to keep from banging the rev limiter and cutting fuel to the motor while the nitrous is engaged.

Low fuel pressure cutoff.

back to back solenoids.

Some new questions I have from research.

The Ny-Trex triple threat system says it is good up to 100HP - If I would want to go further - say 125HP can I do that with this system?IF the system says it maxes out at 100HP that is because of a restriction somewhere in the kit. Most likely in the solenoid. It sounds like 100 is all it will do. Our vehicle specific kit can flow 225 right out of the box.

Does the stock camaro rev limiter cut off fuel or ignition spark? If it cuts off fuel should I consider switching this out for a ignition cutoff to protect the engine if/when I hit the limiter? It will cut fuel. To counter-act this you can run a window switch that will cut the system off before you get to the rev limiter.

Should I remove the rev limiter through a tune or play it safe and keep it?It could work as some added insurance but I wouldn't want to over-rev the motor.

Should I raise the rev limiter and if so to what level?see above

I understand that for a manual I should also have a clutch switch so I am not feeding nos into the engine while shifting - do you guys have a recommended switch to use?You can wire the kit to cut off when the clutch switch is engaged. If you're running a TPS/Window Switch it will cut the system off in between shifts if you lift the gas pedal.

This question is slightly unnecessary since I plan on tuning the car as soon as I install the nos system but prior to the tune is premium fuel necessary?The higher fuel octane you run will help prevent detonation.

With adding premium fuel and nos into the system how much timing retardation is necessary to avoid knocking? By the time the motor is knocking the odds are high something could be hurt. We recommend pulling 2 degrees of timing for every 50 horsepower you're adding. This is conservative and will help prevent knocking. You can add timing back to the motor as you get familiar with nitrous but to start I would keep from running a tune up that is on the ragged edge.

Having the two tunes (track vs street) - how quickly can these be swapped between? Do I just need to have a laptop in the car and switch between the two? Is it possible to tie the tune to the NOS on/off switch so that both are loaded on the ICU and only one is activated at any given time?

Does the Ny-Trex kit include a remote bottle opener? If not, which would you guys recommend?Here is a link to our remote bottle opener: http://www.nitrousoutlet.com/nitrous...le-opener.html

What bottle heater would you suggest? is it safe to install the bottle and bottle heater in the spare tire well? Yes that's perfectly fine. We also offer this bracket that will mount the bottle on the back wall of the trunk

How do you guys route the nos from the rear of the car to the front? Are these components included with the Ny-Trex kit?Our kit comes with a 192" -4AN main feed line. We recommend routing it through the interior of the car through the sail panel, down by the door and through the fire wall.

I replied within your quote. Let me know if you need anymore help getting lined out with a system! One thing to look into would be a wideband to monitor A/F in the case you have something happen with a solenoid a wideband will tell you really quick. We also recommend on all 2010+ Camaro's to upgrade the fuel crossover line. We noticed with the amount of 90* bends that fuel flow was significantly hindered. I can put this together for you as well.

[cliffdog89]

Originally Posted by Brandon@NitrousOutlet

We recommend a Brisk RR14S plug for these cars. Its a copper non-projected plug. Why we recommend copper plugs in particular is we want the plug to melt down as a last line of defense against a lean condition/hot cylinder. I agree a FPSS is always recommended.

Thanks for the info Brandon! I looked up the plug and the gap is .32 - it was recommended to me to vary it between .35 and .4 - what are you thoughts on this?

your 225 rating - is that to the wheels or at the crank? I am probably not looking to exceed a 125 shot but I would like the flexibility to go past the 100HP point. Anything past 125 and I feel I will need to upgrade a lot more on the car than I want to - at least right now.

I like the bracket - but I think I will be going for more of a stealth install for my system.

I will definitely be adding a wide band monitor to monitor the system so thanks for the tip!

Once I have some more information collected I will be contacting several nos system suppliers to determine which system I want to go with. Thanks for your input!

[cliffdog89]

another question - I would like to go with a dual gauge in cabin setup - probably mounted on the driver side window support (I can't remember the technical name lol). One for the fuel/air ration and the second for the pressure on the nos bottle. I am going to mount the nos canister in my trunk and would like a way to monitor the pressure remotely. Is there a simple way to do this?

[MagnumForceGB]

Pillar gauge pod, Autometer makes a dual one. I have it along with a wideband and boost gauge. Wideband is a must if you do boost or nitrous.

[Joe@CPR.com]

I know you have had a lot of your questions answered already but feel free to pm or email me with any other questions. We only sell nitrous outlet products and do so many kits it's not even funny Currently we have the 15% off sale going on for nitrous outlet products also