08-19-2011, 03:23 PM | #281 |
knows 2 facts about ducks
Drives: ...and they're both wrong Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: The HMS Invincible
Posts: 25,072
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Sorry, I wasn't trying to attack you Chris. I just feel like you are saying the vibration is no big deal and that we (using "we" as a collective here) need to suck it up and stop complaining.
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08-19-2011, 03:44 PM | #282 | |||||
Truth Enforcer
Drives: anything I can get my hands on Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: anywhere and everywhere
Posts: 22,797
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definition of perfect is lacking here... Quote:
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tires could be part of the problem. but that doesnt explain Randy's video where he spins the wheel and you can watch it move nearly an inch up and down (out of round). Jekyl, ship the wheels and get your money back.
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Never race anything you can't afford to light on fire and push off a cliff
A group as a whole tends to be smarter than the smartest person in that group until one jackass convinces everyone otherwise. Quote:
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08-19-2011, 03:50 PM | #283 | ||
Booooosted.
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I did, documented, and posted the following: Local shop tested for runout. (5 or 6 different times, even after Savini did them) Videoed the wheels bouncing up and down while being spun. (2 different times) Mounted and balanced and mounted and balanced and rotated the tires on the rims and mounted and balanced again. (Several times) Completely replaced two tires do to a flat and a tire shop screw up. Mounted DIFFERENT tires on the wheels and still vibrated. Savini had them back twice and finally after my last video showed them well out of tolerance they made two new wheels for the WORST two. They were MUCH MUCH better. Smooth as glass compared to previous. But still a slight vibration I could live with. There is plenty more if you want to read through a couple threads with page after page. Bottom line is once I got finished with them and had an acceptable wheel situation the paint started coming of in large chips. I mean like a bad sunburn peels. I washed my hands of them and will never ever ever recomend them EVER. I even paid my own damn shipping at 325.00 the first time they went back. I amply deleted the tire/car factor. It was the wheels. When they remade them they were ok. NOT until then. And just ok. Rent&Roll let me use some tires for my Savinis to rule them out AND showed me some wheels that were there the same size that had NO bounc in them at all. Feel free (anyone) to call Darren at Rent&Roll in Mobile Alabama to verify all of this. (251)345-3347 I also have plenty of documentation from all the other shops as well. I know this isn't my thread, but I just want to make it clear here that this isn't a case of an overly sensitive customer. I'll be happy to show ALL of my evedence that Savini makes a shitty product for the money. Considering all the help that they DID give me, and I still end up with shitty wheels, I can only conclude that they make a shitty wheel. |
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08-19-2011, 07:09 PM | #284 | |
Drives: Several Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 206
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I know Butler Tire is a top-notch organization and has the means and resources to help him out. In fact, when I was sitting with the SoCal Pirelli rep today, I asked him which company he would send someone to in Dr Jkel's area if that person were experiencing difficulties with a new tire/wheel setup. His first response was Butler Tire in Atlanta. Dr Jkel is not a customer of ours (as far as I'm aware), but none of us like to see a Camaro5 member struggle as he has. We also work with Savini Wheels (they are about 2 miles from us) and have had excellent results so far. No company is 100% perfect, and I do know they are constantly making improvements in their production processes. We've even made some paint and finishing suggestions that could be taking hold over there soon (we have a certified BASF Glasurit lifetime guarantee paint department here and are often experimenting with the latest finishing products before they are on the market). All that said, have the hubs been checked for runout? Have the wheel bearings been checked? Has the steering rack, mount bushings and tie rod ends been checked? How about the upper strut bearings? There is a long list of things that need to be gone over if balancing does not cure a vibration issue. We know only the wheels and tires changed, but sometimes moving to a larger, heavier set of wheels and tires will expose a weakness not previously seen with the OE set. Look, there is no way for anyone to diagnose this issue from a distant or through the forum. But if a wheel company told me they checked the wheel for runout (and I knew they had the equipment and expertise to do it right) and it was well within tolerance, I would also spend time looking at other potential causes. Maybe the wheels do have a problem, but the engineer in me would keep me from jumping to a conclusion without more data. I've seen just about every possible suspension/wheel/tire failure or problem possible over the years. Believe me, I've eating more than my share of crow after jumping to a conclusion too quickly just to find out it was something else causing the problem -- sometimes even the least expected thing can bite us. I truly hope Dr Jkel gets the issue handled to his satisfaction. If anything I've written here helps at all -- great. If not, pass this comment by and read on! If Savini is at fault, they need to stand behind their work just like the rest of us in the industry. But it is tough watching the tribe frog-marching them to the boiling cauldron if there could possibly be another cause that has yet to be determined. It's very hard to "un-hang" someone once they are dead!
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Chris Bernal
Brake Maven |
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08-19-2011, 08:26 PM | #285 | |
Booooosted.
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But I'm satisfied when I put another set of 22 inch wheels same dimensions and weight on my car and it rides perfectly smooth. AND put my Savini wheels on another two other Camaros and they vibrate. This was before they remade the two wheels but it was good enough for me. Also, when you spin the wheel and see it bouncing up and down there is a problem. I say all that to say this............... I don't believe Savinis problem is capability but give-a-shitability at the right places. They got my wheels back and told me they changed parts and didn't change a damn thing. They got them back and did a 'Runout', was satisfied and sent them back to me. When Darren at R&R got them back he asked me what they did and I told them what I was told by Savini. That parts were changed 'Despite being within tolerance." Darren asked if they told me specifically what was changed. I told him no. Darren showed me my wheels and asked if I thought it appeared that anything was changed. There were no parts changed. I know you SoCal guys like to stick together, and that's fine. But I know what I know. I learn while I go and what I learned during this whole thing is that equipment and people can both be defective. In this case I can't quite put my finger on it but I got screwed by Savini. Of that there can be no doubt. My point? If they did it to once, twice and three times that we know of, they'll do it again. |
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08-22-2011, 06:05 AM | #286 |
Drives: 10 1LT SIM; 91 B4C sleeper Z Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Ft. Mitchell, Alabama
Posts: 7,199
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Holy crap!!! John put stock 20"s back on the car and NO vibration. He put the Savini's back on and they vibrate.
Unless I'm missing something, how in the world could that be due to wheel bearings, steering rack, mount bushings or tie rod ends? I'm not bashing anyone's post, but it just seems to me that if I put "A" on the car and it's fine; then put "B" on the car and it vibrates, then "B" would seem to be the logical conclusion for the vibration.
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08-22-2011, 07:03 AM | #287 | ||||||||
and MR. HYDE
Drives: 2010 2SS RJT/BLK 6Spd Man Join Date: May 2009
Location: Oxford, Alabama
Posts: 4,375
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Could it be the tires????? Well sure it could.......but my question to BFXAUTO was " Were the tires checked?" NOPE sure wasn't. Why I have no clue, an answer BFXAUTO would have to give but anything is reasonable like tires etc..... As far as I know they were not checked. Quote:
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They checked they wheels and tried to balance them three different ways. BUTLER told me that the wheels were NOT hubcentric and that was part of the reason they vibrated........I send them back to Savini and Savini says no they are perfect. Now I may not be a rocket scientist but I do know you can make numbers read what you want in measurements. You seems like a smart person Chris so you explain why when I put the factory wheels on my car that they did not vibrate and when I put the Savini's on that they do. I do understand your point but it is not the cars fault. I have 9200 miles on my car in over 2 years. They tires are not roasted. I asked for a tread depth test to prove that....was it done? Well of course not. Why? Because you can look at the tires and tell I have not abused them. You ask for the car to be checked. On Who's dime? Why should I have to jump through hoops just because I bought a set of wheels. They should be able to be bolted on and ride smooth, correct? I have a 06 2500HD 4X4 Diesel Crewcab truck with 20" Gear Wheels AND 35" Nitto Terra Grappler tires. That is A LOT tire and wheel combo and I hve ZERO vibration issues, I MEAN ZERO. I know you are trying to help me and I really appreciate your knowledge and experience. If you know of a local Pirelli rep in MY area (36203) please by all means PM me their information so I can get in contact with them. It will not hurt at this point. I find it strange that others who do not have Savini wheels are not having issues.......maybe they are and the Manufacturor fixed the issue???? Quote:
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Exactly Norm....... BFXAUTO sent me an e-mail that stated " Savini says they are perfect so they are perfect because that is the only thing I have to go on, SO you will not get a refund" I figured as much. I went to Butler for help, but since I did not buy wheels from them all they could do was try to balance them. They did call Savini for me and tried to help but again I am not their customer and basically was told by Savini to BUTT OUT......hmmmmmmm wonder why? Maybe because Butler knew they wer jacked up wheels. |
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08-22-2011, 08:37 AM | #288 | |
I'm not totally useless..
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I am by no means a fan of legal recourse but I dare say the time has come!
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"You were really flyin' when I passed you back there!" - Born on 10/05/09 MyCamaroBuildInfo
Last edited by hypurone; 08-22-2011 at 09:59 AM. Reason: sp |
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08-22-2011, 09:03 AM | #289 | |
and MR. HYDE
Drives: 2010 2SS RJT/BLK 6Spd Man Join Date: May 2009
Location: Oxford, Alabama
Posts: 4,375
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So the wheels went back to Savini and I was told that they were going to re-drill the centers and place rings on them. Well Savini says the wheels are hubcentric at 67 mm's. How did they measure them, Ihave no clue, did they measure them...Not real sure about that either. Butler tried to to get them smooth and they did a good job of making the issue better. They re-indexed tires, re-indexed the wheels on the cars etc.....but I still have a vibration. I cruise in my car, don't race or track it so while I am crusing and have my hand on the steering wheel and my hand shakes, I KNOW there is a problem. When I have drink in the console and the straw shakes non stop during driving I know there is an issue, BUT SAVINI says they are in tolerance and they are perfect............ I re-sent an e-mail this morning to BFXAUTO. I am sure I will get the same response as before. I have an appointment to let someone else look at these wheels, again more money out of my pocket all because I bought Savini Wheels. I feel I should not have to re-index wheels on the car, re-index the tires on the wheels everytime I drive it. When I clean my car I take the wheels off to clean the fender wells, springs, etc......but according to them I need to ensure that I put the wheels in the exact same spot as they came off. Well fine tell me exactly how to do that. I torqued with a torque wrench the wheels to the car in a star pattern to 140 ft lbs. This is not some PERFORMANCE mod where the cam is out of timing, headers leak, tune is off etc.... this is freaking wheels, not rocket science....I should be able to bolt these wheels on with no issues. HERE IS THE BIG PROBLEM....I am in Alabama and they are in California...kinda out of sight out of mind. They have my money and basically screw me, just like they did PQ. They brow beat you into accepting sometihng that is not right like they are doing you a favor. That is the main reason for this thread..To let people know about Savini and apparently BFXAUTO as well. They do not stand behind the product they sell, they even tried to blame it on my car...Really? They are progressing...at first on PQ's car they blamed everything under the sun. When that was disproved they finally made him another 2 wheels. Now because they can't blame the tire mounter ( since they did it) they are blaming the CAR. BFXAUTO claims he does not have the money to refund mine....OK do you really want to buy things from someone who does not have the funds to operate a business? OF course we know how Savini operates. The thing I am trying to do is inform people about these people...If it hurts their sales...oh well they should have taken care of the issue. I watch alot of automotive TV and everytime I see a person on TV recommend Savini, a nice letter goes in the mail to them.. Does it help? I have no clue but it lets them know what kind of peopl ethey are dealing with. |
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08-22-2011, 11:04 AM | #290 |
Blessed
Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Augustine FL
Posts: 28,444
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That's pretty telling right there....
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Click image to see build thread. PQ - "the love of cars. It's a boys first step toward manhood and a mans last hold on boyhood." Fbodfather - "We do not want to use the Z28 moniker on a car that does not deserve this hallowed name." The_Blur - "Let's not confuse competitors with equals." |
08-22-2011, 11:35 AM | #291 |
and MR. HYDE
Drives: 2010 2SS RJT/BLK 6Spd Man Join Date: May 2009
Location: Oxford, Alabama
Posts: 4,375
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The technician who worked on my car for nearly 3 hours told me that if I ever took the wheels off that I had to mark the wheels to ensure they went on exactly like they came off. He also told me that I needed to try and center the lugnuts and wheels when I was mounting them back onto the car........
So basically I have to stand on one foot, with my left hand in the air at 3:00 am while singing the National Anthem, try and balance the wheels and ensure they are perfectly centered before I run the lug nuts up onto the wheel all while ensuresing the wheel is centered and they lugnuts are centered. For some strange reason I don't think it should be this way........but then again I do live in Alabama. |
08-22-2011, 11:46 AM | #292 |
Drives: 10 1LT SIM; 91 B4C sleeper Z Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Ft. Mitchell, Alabama
Posts: 7,199
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You could do that and concentrate better if you could play a recording of the National Anthem.......or would that void the warranty?
I feel for you brother
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Pedders Pace Car Package, Injen CAI, Flowmaster AT, AAC Lighting, ZL1 fascia/skirts, RKSport Ram Air hood, vented fenders, painted stripes (Gary's Customz), Honor and Valor badged (Thank you, John)
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08-22-2011, 11:57 AM | #293 |
Booooosted.
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Well, John. Just wait til you get some real miles on the wheels and the car and it starts falling apart.
(I'm trying to get rid of them now) I just refuse to spend more money on wheels. I think a stock set is in my near future. NO, I can't confirm that my Lower control arm, driveline, sway bar end link, blown strut on both rear sides have anything to do with the vibrating wheels, but who knows. BOTH REAR STRUTS. How many people have had a problem with even ONE rear strut, end link, lower control arm? I've replaced ALL of these on BOTH sides do to failure. Personaly I am thinking it's the wheels. Now I have a drivline/UJoint problem. May not be the wheels but as I have been told by a good friend, "DUDE, GET THOSE F***ING THINGS OFF YOUR CAR!!!!!" Before Savini, no problems with ANYTHING. After Savini, my car could have gone back on lemon law had it been stock. Cooincidence. Very well could be. But these heavy ass donked out warped wheels with paint falling off doesn't help at all. |
08-22-2011, 12:17 PM | #294 | ||
Drives: Several Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: SoCal
Posts: 206
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Our Pirelli rep stopped reading his database when he saw Butler Tire. Pushing further, he says NTB is a large authorized dealer closer to you, but he is not sure if they will have solid diagnostics at each location. You might want to call ahead and see which one they suggest you go to. And, he is confident (being employed by Pirelli, of course) that the tires are not likely at fault due to that particular size being made on a robotic assembly line. But, in my experience, you just can't be sure until everything has been checked out!
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Chris Bernal
Brake Maven |
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