Ford anounces new 2017 F-150 RAPTOR: Twin Turbo V6, 500lbs lighter, 10 speed

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by shaffe

Those numbers are fine and dandy but that is not what is being discussed. ( and I had already agreed with you that GM outsless FoMoCo) What was being discussed was F-Series which is sold under The FORD Brand, which is why even if combined GM outsells F-series, F-series is still number 1 selling truck because it is a single model under a single brand. Call it a technicality if you want, but its true ( and I will agree with you that its a technicality but it is what it is).

Which is why I posted the numbers for the Ford brand and the respective models in segments compared to Ford brands direct competitor of GM which is the Chevrolet brand.

And F-Series outsold Silverado and Sierra combined in January US sales

F-Series 54,370

Silverado 36,106 + Sierra 12,621 = 48,727

FACT

The Raptor is nothing like a F-450 Super Duty, yet all get lumped into "F-series" because that is how Ford chooses to market. The fact remains, as uncomfortable as it is to you, that 0.13% separate pickup sales between ALL the pickups FoMoCo sold in 2014 and ALL the pickups GM sold. As of January 2015, GM sold 56,876 pickups and FoMoCo sold 54,370.

GM caters to more people in more segments with more offerings. FoMoCo surrenders most markets knowing it can't compete. Ford's mainstream cars compete with Chevrolet on PRICE. Lincoln competes with Buick in the upscale segment. Ford has no answer for GMC and no answer for Cadillac.

Given the Raptor represents 1.5% of all FoMoCo pickups, I don't think it matters what engine, transmission they put in it, it is merely a drop in a very large bucket.

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

The Raptor is nothing like a F-450 Super Duty, yet all get lumped into "F-series" because that is how Ford chooses to market. The fact remains, as uncomfortable as it is to you, that 0.13% separate pickup sales between ALL the pickups FoMoCo sold in 2014 and ALL the pickups GM sold. As of January 2015, GM sold 56,876 pickups and FoMoCo sold 54,370.

GM caters to more people in more segments with more offerings. FoMoCo surrenders most markets knowing it can't compete. Ford's mainstream cars compete with Chevrolet on PRICE. Lincoln competes with Buick in the upscale segment. Ford has no answer for GMC and no answer for Cadillac.

Given the Raptor represents 1.5% of all FoMoCo pickups, I don't think it matters what engine, transmission they put in it, it is merely a drop in a very large bucket.

Correct, and GM chooses to market Chevrolet, as a single brand and GMC as a different brand. Which is why they are treated as two seperate truck lines vs F-series being a single line. Which is why no matter how you try and slice it to make yourself feel better, until Silverado outsells F-series the F-series will remain best selling truck. What do you not get about that? Even if GM twins combined outsell F-series guess what F-series would still be best selling truck


yes GM when you incorporate Silverado, Colorado, Sierra, Canyon has out sold F-series this month. Guess what F-series is still the best selling truck, because it is a single model. again call it a technicality if you want but its true

What you are doing is the equivalent of me saying this "Expedition, Explorer, Navigator," outsold the Tahoe. Tahoe remains the best selling vehicle bc it is one line from the Chevrolet brand vs different lines from Ford Motor Company as a whole. That is the argument you are making.

I am comparing the Ford brand, not the Ford Motor Company as a whole, you keep going to FordMotorCompany vs GM

[trademaster]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

LOL and GM still has the best selling small cars, large cars, sporty cars, small SUV's, large SUV's, and large luxury SUV's in America, so what's your point? GM sold more pickups in Jan 2015 than FoMoCo too. We'll see how the rest of the year unfolds.

OK and the Detroit Tigers play baseball. Does that change the fact that F-series is the best selling truck? Why are you so defensive about Ford truck sales? I don't see anyone saying Ford is the best brand in the world and GM makes crap because Ford sells more trucks. You seem to have an issue with anyone saying that Ford F-Series is the best selling truck brand in America, but that's just a simple fact. Take that to mean whatever you want.

[TommyTheCat]

I don't really like the rear end, they should keep the iconic grille where it belongs and not exaggerate it all over the place.

[MEDISIN]

Originally Posted by shaffe

I am comparing the Ford brand, not the Ford Motor Company as a whole, you keep going to FordMotorCompany vs GM

After the demise of the Premier Auto Goof, Ford and Ford Motor Company are now one and the same. Lincoln, dangling by a thread, is wholly insignificant. So you are comparing an entire automobile company that happens to market its products under one brand, to one brand (out of four) from the crosstown rival. You don't see that as an apples to oranges comparison?

I find it amusing that "best selling truck" means something to you. Despite the fact that it's not a single truck, rather a full line of multiple pickups in countless variations, capacities and prices. The same variety of trucks that GM sells under various names. If GM renamed every pickup A1-A12, then GM would have the best selling truck in America in 2015 lol. I guess you're easily influenced by marketing slogans.

Originally Posted by trademaster

OK and the Detroit Tigers play baseball. Does that change the fact that F-series is the best selling truck? Why are you so defensive about Ford truck sales? I don't see anyone saying Ford is the best brand in the world and GM makes crap because Ford sells more trucks. You seem to have an issue with anyone saying that Ford F-Series is the best selling truck brand in America, but that's just a simple fact. Take that to mean whatever you want.

Not defensive at all, just pointing out the facts. Wondering why Sigelitest and crysalis_01 brought sales into this thread in the first place. I suspect you and shaffe would be prime candidates for a blue oval market research group.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

After the demise of the Premier Auto Goof, Ford and Ford Motor Company are now one and the same. Lincoln, dangling by a thread, is wholly insignificant. So you are comparing an entire automobile company that happens to market its products under one brand, to one brand (out of four) from the crosstown rival. You don't see that as an apples to oranges comparison?

I find it amusing that "best selling truck" means something to you. Despite the fact that it's not a single truck, rather a full line of multiple pickups in countless variations, capacities and prices. The same variety of trucks that GM sells under various names. If GM renamed every pickup A1-A12, then GM would have the best selling truck in America in 2015 lol. I guess you're easily influenced by marketing slogans.



Not defensive at all, just pointing out the facts. Wondering why Sigelitest and crysalis_01 brought sales into this thread in the first place. I suspect you and shaffe would be prime candidates for a blue oval market research group.

Actually, post 42 on page 2 of this thread mentions first sales numbers. My post on sales is post 66 on page 3, which was in direct response to post 64.

[Blownhotrodder]

The FORD on the back gate ruins the whole truck. Terrible.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by Blownhotrodder

The FORD on the back gate ruins the whole truck. Terrible.

While I don't agree that it ruins the whole truck. I do feel It's extremely garish. To a point where I can't help but wonder if a standard F-150's tailgate will fit.

[72MachOne99GT]

I have a good one...wait..here...

GM sells more vehicles globally as a company......automatically better than Frod..period...

Ford sells more trucks than GM as a company...automatically...wait wait wait..this this this and that.

Boom brought to you by bud light

[derklug]

McDonalds sells a lot of burgers, their burgers must be the best. Funny that I always end up at Chubby's Bar when I want a good burger.

[BobDigi5060]

Comparing F-Series to Silverado 1500, 2500HD, 3500HD, etc makes sense, but throwing GM Canyon/Sierra in the mix or combining the two is a reach. It obviously doesn't work that way and MEDISIN needs to accept that. Sorry bud.

[shaffe]

Medisin you and I will not see eye to eye on this. I have agreed with the points you have made about GM vs FoMoCo as whole. you continually keep saying I can't compare the Ford Line of FoMoCo to chevrolet as a line of GM.

So just want to make sure I understand your logic then.

Toyota brand of Toyota can only be compared with GM as a whole
Honda brand of Honda can only be compared with GM as a whole
Nissan brand of Nissan can only be compared with GM as a whole

Expedition sales can not be compared to Tahoe sales, but Tahoe, Escalade, Yukon.

If RAM Pickups outsold Silverado in a month it wouldn't count bc you have to add Sierra sales to it right?

Best selling truck doesn't mean anything to me. I like good debates like this when work is dead as it passes the time. You are one who likes facts and numbers to prove your point. I have listed my facts of the F-series vs Silverado, Sierra. The segment it competes in.

[titanfan]

Originally Posted by MEDISIN

FoMoCo does well with the Fusion and Explorer but gets dominated in every other category. Pickups are a whopping 0.13% difference between the two. Not only does GM sell more cars, they sell them at a higher price point.

Small Car
GM 499,111 vs FoMoCo 282,826: GM by 55%

Small/Midsize Luxury Cars
GM 84,340 vs FoMoCo 42,169: GM by 67%

Midsize Car
GM 229,884 vs FoMoCo 306,860: FoMoCo by 29%

Large Car
GM 194,227 vs FoMoCo 62,629: GM by 102%

Sporty Car
GM 122,446 vs FoMoCo 82,635: GM by 39%

Small SUV
GM 432,257 vs FoMoCo 306,212: GM by 34%

Small/Midsize Luxury SUV
GM 53,578 vs FoMoCo 41,872: GM by 25%

Midsize SUV
GM 250,215 vs FoMoCo 342,676: FoMoCo by 31%

Large SUV
GM 224,056 vs FoMoCo 44,632: GM by 134%

Large Luxury SUV
GM 30,522 vs FoMoCo 10,433: GM by 98%

Pickup
GM 752,806 vs FoMoCo 753,851: FoMoCo by 0.13%

_________________________________________________

U.S. Sales 2014
GM 2,935,008 vs FoMoCo 2,471,315: GM by 17%

Worldwide Sales 2014
GM 9.92 million vs FoMoCo 6.32: GM by 44%

Like I said, double-digits.



LOL and GM still has the best selling small cars, large cars, sporty cars, small SUV's, large SUV's, and large luxury SUV's in America, so what's your point? GM sold more pickups in Jan 2015 than FoMoCo too. We'll see how the rest of the year unfolds.

I'd like to see the margins for both organizations.

[crysalis_01]

I'd like to see the ratios of the new 10-speed.