Alignment Help Thread

[njdad61]

Originally Posted by JusticePete

We can do that!

Front
Caster: No Factory Adjustment
Camber: -.75
Toe: ZERO

Rear
Camber: ZERO or as close to ZERO as possible
Toe: IN .10

Improved rear tire wear, better on center steering feel all round better driving feel.

Thanks Pete!

I notice that all of these are outside the measurements that BMR recommends for Performance Street. Is this just a case of opposing opinions on the best alignment settings or are BMR's settings intended for something other than a Daily Driver?

I'm a suspension newbie so just trying to learn everything I can from the best!

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by njdad61

Thanks Pete!

I notice that all of these are outside the measurements that BMR recommends for Performance Street. Is this just a case of opposing opinions on the best alignment settings or are BMR's settings intended for something other than a Daily Driver?

I'm a suspension newbie so just trying to learn everything I can from the best!

Pedders is right and they are wrong

All kidding aside, it is a difference in approach to setup. Try it, you won't be disappointing.

[JusticePete]

Here are the newest FE2, FE3, FE4 and FE5 OEM and Pedders Alignment Specs.




Bush Timing

Step 1. Lift the car on a two post lift and raise it.

Step 2. Loosen the following bolts/nuts:
Front:
---Inner Control Arm Bushing
---Inner Radius Rod
Rear:
---Trailing Arm Bushings (both ends)
---Toe Rod Bushings (both ends)
---Lower Control Arm Bushings (Inner)
---Upper Control Arm Bushings (Rearward)
---Lower Strut Bushings

Step 3.
Lower the car and drive it around the parking lot SLOWLY and on to the alignment lift.

Step 4.
With the weight of the car on the wheels tighten all of the nuts/bolts to spec.

Step 5.
Align the car at the new ride height.

[CamaroBC]

Originally Posted by Rob@WretchedMS

or hit something really hard, evenly on both sides, once.

I think that happened to me. Hit a huge pothole. Now something aint right in there. Maybe the Shock. But when I hit bumps now I here a bing sond.

[CamaroBC]

lol my dealer shop won't adjust my alignment to my desired specs. lol
he said we're not NASCAR. lol
he wasn't rude but he's not entertaining the thought at all.


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[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by CamaroBC

lol my dealer shop won't adjust my alignment to my desired specs. lol
he said we're not NASCAR. lol
he wasn't rude but he's not entertaining the thought at all.


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[CamaroBC]

lol I know.
I'm here for a related issue and hopefully realignment will be part of the remedy. *crossing fingers*. but if that's the case I figured Id also get the specs changed to ones you previously suggested. guess I'll have to do that some place else.


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[CamaroBC]

Im a bit confused. And i may be a bit angry after I sort things out. But as I read this entire thread, it seems Camber and Toe are normal operations of wheel alignment. And Caster alignment is an entirely different process that requires more work. How much more work is it to align the camber (not caster) as opposed to aligning the toe? Is it alot more work?

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

Front requires two bolts to be loosened at the bottom of the strut, and then either the tire manually moved, or a Camber adjusting bolt installed to make it easier.

Rear, the Camber and Toe should be adjusted together to get the proper results.

why do you ask

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by CamaroBC

Im a bit confused. And i may be a bit angry after I sort things out. But as I read this entire thread, it seems Camber and Toe are normal operations of wheel alignment. And Caster alignment is an entirely different process that requires more work. How much more work is it to align the camber (not caster) as opposed to aligning the toe? Is it alot more work?

Camber and Toe are adjustable from the factory on the 5th Gen Camaro. Caster is not adjustable from the factory. The provisions are there to make caster adjustable, but it requires the use of either Pedders Caster Eccentric (PDUSACAMCASTER) bolts or using OEM rear camber bolts and grinding the round hole the radius arm bolts into a slot.

[CamaroBC]

I went to my shop to address my issue, and at the very least get my normal OEM alignment specs met to try and eliminate the possible causes of resulting issues ive received after hitting a huge pot hole (exaggerated steer pull on rugged roads, and un-cushioned thud on the left front wheel over bumps).

The end result seemed like a waste of my time and money. This is my dealer GM shop, they were preparing to send me home without telling me that they never touched the camber on the wheel that hit the pot hole. And told me "i wouldnt feel the difference." And I can clearly still feel the difference. The guy said that changing the camber would require extensive work. So hes basically saying hes just lazy? At that point I had stayed there from 9am-2pm and very patient, to come to the conclusion that the car has to be put on another machine that acts as an MRI to locate if there is structural damage in the wheel area or not, which they couldnt do that day, nor by appointment, but only by taking my ride over night and getting back to me when they were able to. So that didnt happen.

I will post my before and after Sheet, But My issue is,
1-If proper alignment is within their capabilities shouldnt they have properly aligned the car...THEN informed me of what other treatment was necessary to get my car back to form?

2-The reason I want a normal alignment is to see if the sound goes away, they aligned every other wheel, but not the pot hole wheel. Can you think of any circumstances that they would align the other wheels but not the camber on the pot hole wheel?

3-After looking at the sheet they seemed to have adjusted the Camber on the rear right wheel,..... Am I missing something? Is there that much more work involved in doing the front than the rear? Plus they put the rear camber outside of OEM specs...to balance out the misalignment of the front left one? What? Im only assuming this because they failed to mention that to me as well.

4-If for any reason that the car sustained damage where they knowingly could not perform a normal alignment to the front wheel, shouldnt they say that?, instead of doing this crappy alignment and charging me full price knowing that I have to come back and get some other work done on the same area?

5-My caster on the pot hole wheel is off 2 degrees or maybe 3 according to OEM specs. This was not mentioned either.

I dont know maybe im wrong, but I feel like they just wanted to charge me for an alignment, and gauge me knowing that I'd have to get some other work done. Dont get me wrong I intend on going back there and raising hell if need be, but I want to get all the facts straight beforehand.

Here it is:




If its too Blurry it reads:

Before

-1.4 -0.3
5.7 5.9
0.39 0.34
0.73
0.02


-0.6 -1.3
-0.05 -0.30
-0.35
0.13

[CamaroBC]

*note the Front left wheel is the one that hit the pot hole.

[Info@PeddersUSA.com]

My opinions here

You have a bent left front strut more than likely
Alignment will not make the noise better, it's likely the strut that is making the noise, unless the mount has been damaged.
The alignment is not good at all.
Is your car lowered? Any Suspension Upgrades?

You caster is fine for an stock alignment, and the offset is close so you are good there too.
The Camber wasn't adjusted, likely due to either laziness, or lack of knowledge, i'll hope for the later.

In order to adjust the rear camber/Toe you need to adjust both of them at the same time to get them in, or it will take forever to get it close, it looks like the tech didn't know how to do this and just made sure the toe was made better.

I'd ask the dealer for your money back, or for someone more experienced to work on your car. But keep in mind, you very likely have a bent strut.

You don't need to have your car put on a frame machine, you just need to have it worked on by someone that a, has a clue what he's doing, and b, cares a little.

i may sound a bit harsh, i'm sorry for that, but it's things like this that shouldn't happen.
If one of my techs had done that he would not have been paid for the alignment and i would have given it to someone else to do over again and paid them for it.

[CamaroBC]

Originally Posted by Info@PeddersUSA.com

My opinions here

You have a bent left front strut more than likely
Alignment will not make the noise better, it's likely the strut that is making the noise, unless the mount has been damaged.
The alignment is not good at all.
Is your car lowered? Any Suspension Upgrades?

You caster is fine for an stock alignment, and the offset is close so you are good there too.
The Camber wasn't adjusted, likely due to either laziness, or lack of knowledge, i'll hope for the later.

In order to adjust the rear camber/Toe you need to adjust both of them at the same time to get them in, or it will take forever to get it close, it looks like the tech didn't know how to do this and just made sure the toe was made better.

I'd ask the dealer for your money back, or for someone more experienced to work on your car. But keep in mind, you very likely have a bent strut.

You don't need to have your car put on a frame machine, you just need to have it worked on by someone that a, has a clue what he's doing, and b, cares a little.

i may sound a bit harsh, i'm sorry for that, but it's things like this that shouldn't happen.
If one of my techs had done that he would not have been paid for the alignment and i would have given it to someone else to do over again and paid them for it.

No not harsh at all. Thank you. This is what I thought.

1-I have not had anything lowered. I bought it preowned at 9000, if it was lowered I am not aware of it, nor do I know how to go about figuring if it was. Any advice?

2-Which raises the question if the camber on the front wheel wasnt done due to lack of knowledge, how liable does that make them as a GM service center to tell me everything is ok and send me home like that? Also lets say they are aware it may be a bent left strut, would that make them UNABLE to adjust the front camber? Im guessing no. As you have stated it would not alleviate the dead thud noise...but my issue was twofold as I also am experiencing steering pull. And I think would be reason enough to do a complete proper alignment.

3-So I want to get this veeeryyy clear, it does not need to be put on the car frame, to be able to be diagnose something like a bent strut? Is that correct? Because when I go back there I dont even want entertain the thought of them trying to claim that it needs to be done, and try to charge me or hold my car for that.

4-A bent strut is going to require a replacement right?

5-Based on the before and after Specs, how should I proceed when I go back and force a proper alignment from them? Do the before specs indicate that the previous owner might have readjusted them to street or aggressive street settings or do they seem they were closer to OEM settings prior to the pothole hit?

Because what im thinking is forcing them to finish the job, and do the exact specs I desire, at no extra charge then go to someone else to get the inner work done, whether it be bent strut mount damage.