Question on LLT Tune - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

menendez1293 · 12-15-2012, 10:07 PM

I posted this in the Tuning sub fourm but am posting it here as well to see if it gets a little more response.

Alright I am contemplating on getting the trifecta tune for my LLT simply because my car seems to be running rich.

Awhile ago I installed my MRTs back in mid September and at first my car was running lean and pretty rough. This I thought was normal since the ECU had to learn. I pulled the battery to make it learn a little quicker and it did. I no longer had any soot on my tips, all that black dust on the rear bumper was gone, and it wasn't rough either. Jump foward to December I drove the car and I had a lot of soot on the tips, the black dust was back again, and the motor sounds rough again. I checked for any vacuum leaks or exhaust leaks and I can't find anything. Now Today when I went to go and wash the Camaro I smelled a very rich smell coming from the exhaust. Which makes me believe its running rich now.

My only mods are a Cold Air Inductions CAI, a Rx Catch Can, and the MRTs V2. Let me also say that this is a weekend only car so even though it has been 3 and a half months since the exhaust instal its only been about 300 miles.I don't really want to do a tune because it will void my warranty but if I have to I will. My question to you guys that might know more than I do in tuning and on the ECU is do you actually believe I need the tune to fix the ratio? To me it is very strange that it went from a balanced ratio to a unbalanced one. What are some other things I might be able to do other than a tune? And is there anything that I can find pretty easily and inexpensive that could tell me what my Air to Fuel Ratio is?

Thanks for the help guys.

SIXJAK · 12-15-2012, 11:08 PM

JSYK, there are two other options. Hypertech has a hand held and IPF has a tune as well. I had the Trifecta tune in my car and IMO, it was ok. I still felt like I was running pretty rich. I would wipe the soot off of them every fill up. I think these motors inherently run rich anyway. Let us know what you go with.

KMPrenger · 12-15-2012, 11:23 PM

Soot on the tips is very common. I've had to clean my tips since I changed the stock exhaust to magnaflows. This car does run a bit more rich than what we normally see.

If you have an android phone you can monitor your fuel trims with a very useful apparently called Torque and by purchasing an OBDII Bluetooth adapter. I use it for that among other uses and my fuel trims look to be fine. Total cost about $30. Pm me for details.

BaylorCamaro · 12-15-2012, 11:27 PM

The torq ap cannot tell you what your afr is. The only way to do that is with a wideband. However you can monitor the command fuel trims, so it gives you an idea.

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy S III using telekinesis.

menendez1293 · 12-16-2012, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SIXJAK

JSYK, there are two other options. Hypertech has a hand held and IPF has a tune as well. I had the Trifecta tune in my car and IMO, it was ok. I still felt like I was running pretty rich. I would wipe the soot off of them every fill up. I think these motors inherently run rich anyway. Let us know what you go with.

I was debating with IPF and trifecta and I think I will go with trifecta if I need it done simply because of the fact that you get lifetime tunes in the normal price as well. Flight now it's on sale so I was looking at taking advantage of that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

Soot on the tips is very common. I've had to clean my tips since I changed the stock exhaust to magnaflows. This car does run a bit more rich than what we normally see.

If you have an android phone you can monitor your fuel trims with a very useful apparently called Torque and by purchasing an OBDII Bluetooth adapter. I use it for that among other uses and my fuel trims look to be fine. Total cost about $30. Pm me for details.

While it is normal to sometimes run rich I think this is a little over the normal. It has a very rich smell coming from the tips and in 35 miles after I wash the car my tips are full of the soot and the dust is back on the rear bumper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by BaylorCamaro

The torq ap cannot tell you what your afr is. The only way to do that is with a wideband. However you can monitor the command fuel trims, so it gives you an idea.

Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy S III using telekinesis.

Thanks for the heads up that the torq app doesn't read the afr. I almost just ordered it and the Bluetooth adapter to read it either on my dads galaxy or my old HTC since I just upgraded to a 5.

h2oplay · 12-16-2012, 07:03 AM

I have the trifecta tune, but still have some soot, these cars are always running a bit rich, it seems to be a trait of the LLT. perhaps you don't drive it enough for a good relearn.

menendez1293 · 12-16-2012, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by h2oplay

I have the trifecta tune, but still have some soot, these cars are always running a bit rich, it seems to be a trait of the LLT. perhaps you don't drive it enough for a good relearn.

That is always a possibility. I haven't driven but 300 miles since the install and about 250 since the battery pull. It's a weekend car that only gets out when there is nice weather or a Camaro meet. It has around 4500 miles on the ODO right now.

spyderbuddy · 12-16-2012, 07:16 AM

I have the trifectia tune and love it. I've also noticed that if I run Murphy Gas my tips get dirty quick, Shell on the other hand while they still get dirty it takes longer.

Trifectia will retune the car for free as long as it is NA. Ok you buy the tune add a cold air intake, get a data log, Vince will look at it and send you a reflash, say a year later you add headers, do a data log, send it to Vince get a reflash for free. Now you add a Supercharger, Turbo, or N2O, that WILL cost you.

And Vince will work with you if you have any issues. You can get the Tune from BMR (great bunch of Guys) or you can pay full price and get it from Trifectia.

PS Got to love the ghost camm.

scrming · 12-16-2012, 07:20 AM

None of the OP's mods should require a tune... especially a simple axle-back exhaust.

Sooty tailpipe are the normal not only for the LLT, but I believe for "Direct Injection" in general. I've had a few other DI motors and they all have incredibly sooty tail pipes! DI motors also seem to run on the rich side... I've given up on keeping my tips clean...

250 miles is plenty to relearn... Personally i would hold off on a tune and simply drive it some more..

h2oplay · 12-16-2012, 07:21 AM

try to get it out more, I drive mine most nice days, of course, I'm only 3 miles from work, but do take it on extended cruises now and then.

I got the tune because I changed my diff ratio, the extra HP from the tune is a nice plus, Vince claims about 13HP net. Not sure I would have done the tune otherwise, but since I have it, I've added LT headers, so for me it was worth it in the end.

menendez1293 · 12-16-2012, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scrming

None of the OP's mods should require a tune... especially a simple axle-back exhaust.

Sooty tailpipe are the normal not only for the LLT, but I believe for "Direct Injection" in general. I've had a few other DI motors and they all have incredibly sooty tail pipes! DI motors also seem to run on the rich side... I've given up on keeping my tips clean...

250 miles is plenty to relearn... Personally i would hold off on a tune and simply drive it some more..

I am planing on driving more through the end of the year simply just to see how it acts. If I feel that it is still not right I will take advantage of the sale BNR has. I just can't explain how it went from lean to balanced to rich.

lscamaro · 12-16-2012, 12:28 PM

If I remember correctly, trifecta can't tune afr except for at wide open throttle. If you want afr to be corrected by vince, you have to get on a dyno and have him remote tune

'11CamaroLS · 12-16-2012, 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lscamaro

If I remember correctly, trifecta can't tune afr except for at wide open throttle. If you want afr to be corrected by vince, you have to get on a dyno and have him remote tune

well he can never see afr cause we dont have factory widebands, but he can give a commanded afr. i think the best bet if your worried about warranty is jump on a dyno that monitors air fuel with a wideband, even better is to find a dyno that also monitors paramaters from the ecm as well, like fuel trims, etc. find out for sure if your running rich, cause the LLT adapts pretty well to mods and i think jerry has said before that soot on the tips is commonly mistaken for running rich when its not.

menendez1293 · 12-17-2012, 03:24 PM

Alright so after spending the day yesterday trying to narrow down what it was causing the problem. I believe the car was running rich because of a vacuum leak in the Catch can. I have talked to Tracy over at Rx and I will sending out my old can tomorrow to get a replacement one.

In case anyone wants to know one of the feedings was loose because it was stripped which caused air to leaks creating a vacuum leak. I will know for sure it's that when I get the new can buy I'm almost positive it's the can because the car ran fine with the stock PCV line. (I bought a replacement one fore situations like this)

12-15-2012, 10:07 PM	#1
menendez1293 Emerald Coast Camaros Drives: 2010 Camaro 2LT/RS M6 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Tallahassee FL Posts: 9,687 View My Garage	Question on LLT Tune I posted this in the Tuning sub fourm but am posting it here as well to see if it gets a little more response. Alright I am contemplating on getting the trifecta tune for my LLT simply because my car seems to be running rich. Awhile ago I installed my MRTs back in mid September and at first my car was running lean and pretty rough. This I thought was normal since the ECU had to learn. I pulled the battery to make it learn a little quicker and it did. I no longer had any soot on my tips, all that black dust on the rear bumper was gone, and it wasn't rough either. Jump foward to December I drove the car and I had a lot of soot on the tips, the black dust was back again, and the motor sounds rough again. I checked for any vacuum leaks or exhaust leaks and I can't find anything. Now Today when I went to go and wash the Camaro I smelled a very rich smell coming from the exhaust. Which makes me believe its running rich now. My only mods are a Cold Air Inductions CAI, a Rx Catch Can, and the MRTs V2. Let me also say that this is a weekend only car so even though it has been 3 and a half months since the exhaust instal its only been about 300 miles.I don't really want to do a tune because it will void my warranty but if I have to I will. My question to you guys that might know more than I do in tuning and on the ECU is do you actually believe I need the tune to fix the ratio? To me it is very strange that it went from a balanced ratio to a unbalanced one. What are some other things I might be able to do other than a tune? And is there anything that I can find pretty easily and inexpensive that could tell me what my Air to Fuel Ratio is? Thanks for the help guys.

12-15-2012, 11:08 PM	#2
SIXJAK Drives: MO's only SC'd LLT. Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Branson MO Posts: 2,574 View My Garage	JSYK, there are two other options. Hypertech has a hand held and IPF has a tune as well. I had the Trifecta tune in my car and IMO, it was ok. I still felt like I was running pretty rich. I would wipe the soot off of them every fill up. I think these motors inherently run rich anyway. Let us know what you go with. __________________ IPF supercharger kit, IPF tune, SW LT's, R. Tech HFC's, ARK DT-S catback, SS Brembo brake upgrade, BC Racing adjustable coilovers, Hurst STS, Pfadt rear arm package, Pfadt adjustable sways & end links, Pfadt diff bushings, BMR rear cradle full kit blk bezels,SS diffuser, Innovate gauges.

12-15-2012, 11:23 PM	#3
KMPrenger Drives: 16 Camaro SS, 15 Colorado Join Date: May 2009 Location: Jefferson City, Missouri Posts: 13,943	Soot on the tips is very common. I've had to clean my tips since I changed the stock exhaust to magnaflows. This car does run a bit more rich than what we normally see. If you have an android phone you can monitor your fuel trims with a very useful apparently called Torque and by purchasing an OBDII Bluetooth adapter. I use it for that among other uses and my fuel trims look to be fine. Total cost about $30. Pm me for details. __________________ 2016 Camaro 1SS - 8-speed - NPP - Black bowties 2010 Camaro 1LT V6 (Sold. I will miss her!)

12-15-2012, 11:27 PM	#4
BaylorCamaro Track > 1/4 Mile Drives: 2016 C7 Z51 Join Date: Sep 2009 Location: League City, TX Posts: 6,072 View My Garage	The torq ap cannot tell you what your afr is. The only way to do that is with a wideband. However you can monitor the command fuel trims, so it gives you an idea. Sent from my SAMSUNG Galaxy S III using telekinesis. __________________ Automotive YouTube Channel / Texas World Speedway / MSR Houston

12-16-2012, 07:03 AM	#6
h2oplay Winners find a way Drives: 2010 2LT/RS M6 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 1,137	I have the trifecta tune, but still have some soot, these cars are always running a bit rich, it seems to be a trait of the LLT. perhaps you don't drive it enough for a good relearn. __________________ Injen LT \| Magnaflows \| BBK LT & HFC \| Mace 25mm & P Spacer \|Richmond 3.73 \| Trifecta Tune RX Catch Can & Breather \| Pedders Inserts \| IDEALG Clutch MC & GTO Reservoir \| JDP Colorshift Halos \| Drake Bowtie Delete \|

12-16-2012, 07:16 AM	#8
spyderbuddy Drives: 2010 RS Inferno Orange Metallic Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Albany, Ga. Posts: 3,398 View My Garage	I have the trifectia tune and love it. I've also noticed that if I run Murphy Gas my tips get dirty quick, Shell on the other hand while they still get dirty it takes longer. Trifectia will retune the car for free as long as it is NA. Ok you buy the tune add a cold air intake, get a data log, Vince will look at it and send you a reflash, say a year later you add headers, do a data log, send it to Vince get a reflash for free. Now you add a Supercharger, Turbo, or N2O, that WILL cost you. And Vince will work with you if you have any issues. You can get the Tune from BMR (great bunch of Guys) or you can pay full price and get it from Trifectia. PS Got to love the ghost camm. __________________ PCP Hideaway Headlight Covers, BBK Headers & High Flow Cats, ZL1 Add-ons Wicker Bill, TL1/ZL1 Hood Insert, Gen5 DIY Frameless Mirror, ABL Dash Lighting an My link Navigation, Blacked out Rear Bowtie, all Sylvania led Turn Signals, Ceramic Window Tint By Nicks, MBRP Exhaust tips, GEN5 DIY Virginia Legal DRL Harness, Painted Brake Calipers, Vittesse Throttle Controller, Heritage Grill, Diode Dynamics Led Lighting, Manual Shifter Boot, Paddle Shifters, CNC Throttle Body, Trifecta Tune, RX Catch Can & Breather, Trunk Black out and Side Grills, Chevorlet door Sills.

12-16-2012, 07:20 AM	#9
scrming Red Brick of Vengeance! Drives: 12 Second Brick Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: at my pulpit Posts: 7,745	None of the OP's mods should require a tune... especially a simple axle-back exhaust. Sooty tailpipe are the normal not only for the LLT, but I believe for "Direct Injection" in general. I've had a few other DI motors and they all have incredibly sooty tail pipes! DI motors also seem to run on the rich side... I've given up on keeping my tips clean... 250 miles is plenty to relearn... Personally i would hold off on a tune and simply drive it some more.. __________________ 2011 Ford Flex EcoBoost Limited - 12.727 @ 109.790 MPH

12-16-2012, 07:21 AM	#10
h2oplay Winners find a way Drives: 2010 2LT/RS M6 Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: NE Ohio Posts: 1,137	try to get it out more, I drive mine most nice days, of course, I'm only 3 miles from work, but do take it on extended cruises now and then. I got the tune because I changed my diff ratio, the extra HP from the tune is a nice plus, Vince claims about 13HP net. Not sure I would have done the tune otherwise, but since I have it, I've added LT headers, so for me it was worth it in the end. __________________ Injen LT \| Magnaflows \| BBK LT & HFC \| Mace 25mm & P Spacer \|Richmond 3.73 \| Trifecta Tune RX Catch Can & Breather \| Pedders Inserts \| IDEALG Clutch MC & GTO Reservoir \| JDP Colorshift Halos \| Drake Bowtie Delete \|

12-16-2012, 12:28 PM	#12
lscamaro Drives: 2011 CGM Camaro LS A6 Join Date: Jan 2011 Location: San Antonio, Texas Posts: 10,305	If I remember correctly, trifecta can't tune afr except for at wide open throttle. If you want afr to be corrected by vince, you have to get on a dyno and have him remote tune __________________ Click Picture for Build Thread

12-17-2012, 03:24 PM	#14
menendez1293 Emerald Coast Camaros Drives: 2010 Camaro 2LT/RS M6 Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Tallahassee FL Posts: 9,687 View My Garage	Alright so after spending the day yesterday trying to narrow down what it was causing the problem. I believe the car was running rich because of a vacuum leak in the Catch can. I have talked to Tracy over at Rx and I will sending out my old can tomorrow to get a replacement one. In case anyone wants to know one of the feedings was loose because it was stripped which caused air to leaks creating a vacuum leak. I will know for sure it's that when I get the new can buy I'm almost positive it's the can because the car ran fine with the stock PCV line. (I bought a replacement one fore situations like this)