OHIO CAMARO ENTHUSIASTS/OWNERS REPORT HERE

[Arachnyd]

Originally Posted by ChriSS84

I agree, but this is to combat what Chevy came out with. I think it will be close to the ZL1 price. I'd say 58-60k and you are still getting alot of car for that price.

I was going to pick up a vette after the Camaro is paid off this year, but I think I might rethink that and look at this.

I dont know... I'm thinking we are going to see a divergence because both car companies are better off if they are each "best" at something. The ZL1 will dominate the GT500 on the track/skidpad. It will out handle it and out corner it. The GT500 will best the ZL1 on the 1/4 mile and probably top speed. The ford guys will say theres is best and they'll be right. The chevy guys will say the same. No one can be best at everything and still compete cost-wise. This works for chevy though because they are going to sandwich the GT500 between the ZL1 and the Corvette, which doesn't have the same level of price pressurea s the ZL/GT

[TLSTWIN]

ok, it is a good car, BUT.... the 54k start is not comparing apples to apples. If you go though the "build" function on Ford's site, you can't even get the same options that the ZL1 has at the same price.

When you do build it like the ZL1 (track package) the car is over $63K, then you still don't get the same things, not a huge deal, but it is pricey, is heated seats. The ZL1 comes with them, the GT500 is an adder that can't be added to the track package.... so it is one or the other, and it is over $1,600 adder for the GT500. There are few other things as well, but not major, but the prices do add up.

SO, the GT500 is a good car, but it is NOT the same price when comparing apples to apples

[SilverIceman]

There are lots of threads for this topic. Camaro vs Mustang and it'll never be solved. Both nice cars.
If they keep improving each one every two years they'll soon be $100K each and no one will buy them.
Will be interesting to see how high Chevy goes with these. If you can buy a $55k camaro and for $4 or $5k more at a speed shop make it 700+ Hp, why would you ever buy a corvette? Looks I guess.

[driyac]

Prices on cars have been inflating ridiculously. A new suburban is 80 k. Like really?

I'm sorry but even 42 k for this car is pushing it. Sorry just ranting

[SteveRS]

Im going to be comming back to Ohio from my overseas tour in July.. I have a buncha goodies lined up.. i need some help installing the HUD lol

[Qwkss]

Originally Posted by driyac

Prices on cars have been inflating ridiculously. A new suburban is 80 k. Like really?

I'm sorry but even 42 k for this car is pushing it. Sorry just ranting

$80K!??! WOW!! I got mine paid off (2007)and I guess Ill put another 100,000 miles on it!

[Arachnyd]

Originally Posted by ChriSS84

I don't expect it to be the same price. It has more horsepower, and we all know the cost of adding horsepower can get a little steep. I don't autocross, so the track package isn't something I give a shit about anyways.

I like the GT500 and when you pull up next to one and they smoke your ZL1 or SS don't come on here and bitch about Mustang drivers are jerks/idiots or whatever else. I want horsepower and that's what muscle cars are all about.

I'm the opposite. I let honda civics "smoke" me from the line, its not worth getting a ticket, arrested, or losing my car, but thats probably because I dont have to compensate for anything, nor do I have some crazy ego to stroke. The only way I have really found I enjoy legally using performance is: On crazy twisty back country roads, on the autocross track, and on tracks such as mid-ohio. In all those scenarios, the ZL1 will win out over the GT500. I also like performance for DD duties- getting on the highway, passing, etc, but in the real world you won't be able to tell a difference between the ZL1 and the GT500. Yes the GT500 can legally run at a drag strip and thats where it will win out, but personally, I dont find that all that enjoyable, plus even the GT500 will still get smoked by the custom drag cars that are hanging out there every weekend... However, if someone has to compensate to feel good about themselves, or loves the drag strip, more power to them- thats why there are different cars for different customers!

[Arachnyd]

Originally Posted by SilverIceman

There are lots of threads for this topic. Camaro vs Mustang and it'll never be solved. Both nice cars.
If they keep improving each one every two years they'll soon be $100K each and no one will buy them.
Will be interesting to see how high Chevy goes with these. If you can buy a $55k camaro and for $4 or $5k more at a speed shop make it 700+ Hp, why would you ever buy a corvette? Looks I guess.

What about performance? don't most people buy a corvette for performance? Put $10k into a camaro with 700 HP and its still going to lose out to a vette in the handling department. Spend $150k total and I'm guessing the vette is still the better platform., so I dont think the vette is going to get swallowed up by the camaro any time soon in performance...

Also remember MOST people don't modify cars isnt that like saying why would someone buy a $55k camaro if they can buy a 40k camaro and put 4 or 5k in at a speed shop and make 600 HP?

-however-

I was involved with some marketing research on these cars about a year ago.

Think about it from customer base Here's what Chevy has already admitted- the corvette customer base is dying. They are growing the camaro customer base largely for the US market. The corvette is planned to shoot up in price and compete internationally with the ferraris/lambos/etc. Chevy is anticipating a major decline in the Corvette here in the US, except for the serious performance buffs. This is where the ZL1 is sliding in, as the non-racers-who-spend-a-lot-on-cars are emerging as the pony/muscle car enthusiasts. The ZL1 will be competing for the corvette buyers of 10 years ago, and will be priced accordingly. It will also move up in price as this target group builds wealth, which will permit incredible performance improvements. This will also free up the corvette from having to capture these less affluent customers and allows them to spread further up the spectrum. For Chevy this will equal more overall sales internationally and domestically.

Just some thoughts to chew on.

[Arachnyd]

Originally Posted by driyac

Prices on cars have been inflating ridiculously. A new suburban is 80 k. Like really?

I'm sorry but even 42 k for this car is pushing it. Sorry just ranting

I think your just jaded. Inflation was just delayed for a while and now they are catching up. We are seeing more inflation than the inflation numbers admit because of the type of products it tracks.

Official inflation is based on CPI. CPI is based on things like Housing, Food and Beverages, Apparel, Recreation, Education, Medical care, Tabacco, haircuts, similar. OK, so our official inflation rates are low, but those are the "cheap" things in the US? Do you realize that the nickel you have in your pocket is technically worth more in nickel than a nickel is worth? (Worth $5.62 in refined nickel).

In fact whats more amazing is how low the average car price is. you get more for less today than in any time in history.

In 1950, the average family made $3,200 a year. Today the average family makes $46,326. a car from the 50's lasted approximately 75k miles, while a car from today easily lasts 150k miles. Conveniently that means in the 50's you would have had to purchase two cars to do the same duty as one car today. So that would be comparing a $3,200 car from 1950 to a $92,652 car today.

Now for 15% over one years salary, you could have bought a chevy corvette for $3500 (1953). We'll compare this to what you could buy today for 15% over our equivalent amount, which would land us a ZR1 Corvette. .. with all its unreal performance, fuel economy, safety features, and luxury features....

or look at the cheapest cars... 1300 was the cheapest you could go in 1950. Today that would buy you anything under $37,000- Like a super safe, super fuel efficient car with more bells and whistles than a 50s car could dream of.

Average gallon of gas in 1950 was 18 cents... thats the equivalency of $2.15 in todays dollars, but cars received less than 1/3 todays gas mileage. Therefore your saving money in gas as well.

is 1950 too old for you? how about 1995? average car price was $15,500... but todays average car price is a whopping $30,000. Wow, double in 20 years? (mind you prices doubled just in the 70s too) But lets just take a good entry level car... the Honda Civic.
A simple DX Sedan cost $12,000. Thats $17,400 in todays dollars, which will buy you a a DX Sedan with 1.5k to spare. the only other differences?
in addition to saving $1.5k, you get 40 more HP, a longer warranty, ABS rbrakes, Traction control, stability control, tire pressure monitoring, trip computing, side airbags, child safety locks, antitheft, AIR CONDITIONING, automatic headlights, power windows, power mirrors...

In other words, cars are a STEAL right now. I think the only difference is what type of people americans have become. They don't want reliable transportation, since they have no problem affording all the car they need, they go after the WANTS- they want STATUS, they want IMAGE, they want POWER, they want features.

Today you can buy a new hyundai accent for $10,665. That would have been $7,062 in 1995, and you couldnt even buy a car that cheap in 95 not to mention the lack of all the safety benefits you have in a new car.

Now if you want to talk about USED cars, tahts a different story.

(dang I wish it wasn't raining because I want to be at mod day right now! Hope those who showed up are having fun... looking forward to pics!)

[blue-bayou]

Interesting. Where do you get all this information?

[Arachnyd]

Originally Posted by blue-bayou

Interesting. Where do you get all this information?

I'll admit it, I'm an academic dork... haha. I spend all week with this stuff as I have two primary jobs- Marketing for the Automotive and Trailer industry and being a college professor in Marketing & Entrepreneurship, and I love to pull the two together (I've spoken at the NAIAS and developed stuff for Chrysler, GM, and Toyota)

a few weeks back I was involved in a project analyzing CPI (and comparing to GDP Index and PCE index) and researching its connection to consumption of vehicular items, and thats where most of this stemmed from.

The base and numbers are sound, but in line with some of my other arguments, its just food for thought- plenty of room for disagreement... haha. I dont mean to drive anyone crazy, I know a lot of people will skip over them as its too verbose, but I love the research and I post on the basis that at least someone may be intrigued? Or maybe I'm just filling up board space... what can I say!

If you were actually looking for my sources:

CPI data can be found at the Bureau of Labor Statistics Income basis is derived from UC Berkeley's professor Emmanuel Saez (http://elsa.berkeley.edu/~saez/ ). Specific car data was found in various sources, much based on my encyclopedia of classic cars (ISBN 978-1571459909 ) this is the most likely part to be slightly flawed. Can't validate some of the specific 50's info besides checking a bunch of different sources and concluding based upon it. modern pricing and options based on http://www.edmunds.com and http://home.autos.msn.com/ . Refined nickel statements are based on a little somethign I wrote a few weeks ago I can send to you.

[gahammerle]

Originally Posted by Arachnyd

I know a lot of people will skip over them as its too verbose,

The generation before me had a decent attention span. Then my generation grew up on half-hour sitcoms and our attention span diminished. Today, people are living on 140 character tweets. What will the attention span be of the next generation - an emoticon?

[driyac]

Originally Posted by ChriSS84

Prices for new trucks and SUV's are insane. It's getting to the point where you need to be rich to owe a f*!*ing pick up truck. I'd be ok with picking up a used one and saving some money.

Agreed my silverado in 2010 was 47 k. Way more than a Camaro

[Arachnyd]

Originally Posted by gahammerle

The generation before me had a decent attention span. Then my generation grew up on half-hour sitcoms and our attention span diminished. Today, people are living on 140 character tweets. What will the attention span be of the next generation - an emoticon?

Your probably right. our children's forum discussion:

X writes:


R Responds:


X writes