UPDATE: Carmakers May Face New Emissions Standards

[bigralph]

http://money.cnn.com/news/newsfeeds/...5_FORTUNE5.htm

UPDATE: Carmakers May Face New Emissions Standards
November 14, 2008: 12:39 PM EST

Updates with details about current fuel-efficiency mandates in second paragraph and details about California greenhouse-gas rules in last paragraphs.)

By Siobhan Hughes

Of DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

WASHINGTON -(Dow Jones)- U.S. automakers could face new rules limiting tailpipe greenhouse-gas emissions after President-elect Barack Obama assumes office, even if Congress fails to pass broader legislation to reduce emissions across the economy.

Any new rules would be in addition to higher fuel-efficiency standards automakers are already required to meet under a 2007 law. General Motors Corp. ( GM), Ford Motor Co. (F) and Chrysler LLC (C.XX) are due to receive $25 billion in government loans to make more fuel-efficient vehicles. The new emissions standards contemplated by federal regulators would mean even more advanced cars, such as plug-in hybrids, but could pose an additional burden on the already struggling industry.

The U.S. Environmental Protection Agency's staff is preparing to advise the Obama transition team that rules to cut vehicle greenhouse-gas emissions are necessary because the approach contemplated by Congress won't be enough to fully curb the release of heat-trapping gases from cars, trucks, and other vehicles.

"We believe that cap-and-trade legislation is going to be a very effective way to address greenhouse-gas emissions from all sectors," Margo Oge, the director of the EPA's office of transportation and air quality, said Thursday at a conference in Washington, D.C. "But also we believe that in addition to a cap- and-trade program we need complementary programs that deal with the transportation sector - cars, trucks, offroad equipment and fuel."

At issue is a plan in Congress to create a cap-and-trade system, which sets a maximum limit, or "cap," on emissions. Emitters can then buy or sell allowances, giving them the option to exceed their limit, or an incentive to stay below it. Obama has endorsed a cap-and-trade program that would reduce greenhouse gases by 80% by mid-century.

Regulators' concern: While transportation accounts for 28% of all U.S. greenhouse-gas emissions, the sector's gases would be reduced by an estimated 9% under a Senate bill pushed earlier this year, even factoring in vehicle- efficiency standards.

That is because an emissions-trading system is projected to tack on only 22 cents to 49 cents to the price of a gallon of gasoline by 2020, based on an analysis by the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

"The price signal is very low," Oge said.

The EPA staff spelled out some of its ideas in a document published earlier this year that could provide a roadmap for regulating greenhouse-gas emissions across the U.S. economy. The document said between 2020 and 2025, vehicle fuel- efficiency standards could be well above 35 miles per gallon, based on technologies such as plug-in hybrid vehicles. The 2007 law raised fuel- efficiency standards to an average of 35 miles per gallon by the 2020 model year.

California has already written greenhouse-gas emissions rules for vehicles, but EPA Administrator Stephen Johnson last year blocked the state from adopting the regulations. The move prevented other states from taking their own action, since states have the option to adopt the California standard.

The California standard may take effect as soon as this year. California Air Resources Board Chairman Mary Nichols, who is considered to be a contender for the job of EPA administrator under Obama, told reporters Thursday she expects states to ask for a waiver that would allow the California rules to go forward as soon as an EPA administrator is named.

"California and other states that have joined us in adopting the California standards will send a letter to the President-elect asking them to initiate the action to rescind the denial of our waiver," Nichols told reporters Thursday. " We do expect favorable consideration based on his statements during the campaign."

-By Siobhan Hughes, Dow Jones Newswires; 202-862-6654; Siobhan.Hughes@ dowjones.com

Click here to go to Dow Jones NewsPlus, a web front page of today's most important business and market news, analysis and commentary: http:// http://www.djnewsplus.com/al?rnd=Zl4...spLZ%2Bg%3D%3D. You can use this link on the day this article is published and the following day.

END) Dow Jones Newswires
11-14-08 1239ET
Copyright (c) 2008 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.

[The_Blur]

No government has ever engaged an industry without consulting the industry's leaders. The EPA is one side of the issue, and the government will consult with the automotive industry before coming to some sort of compromise.

[RCowan]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

No government has ever engaged an industry without consulting the industry's leaders. The EPA is one side of the issue, and the government will consult with the automotive industry before coming to some sort of compromise.

You say that but I can't help but think that they just pull most of these numbers out of their asses like the new CAFE requirements.

You have a much more positive attitude than I do. I'll just sum it up by saying that it will never be in the parasite's best interest to kill its host, but it sure can make it sick as a dog and keep it from performing at its best.

[Hesh]

All I can say is what a load of crap.

[Supermans]

It is always in the Environmentalists interest to kill off all gas-guzzling vehicles including high powered sports cars. Setting stricter standards and so forth is the way to do it. In other words the car company would have to pay a penalty to make the car the way it currently is and we the consumer would pay the difference if the item in question isn't changed. Eventually the Camaro or Corvette will no longer resemble the cars we love today because in order for them to remain in an affordable price range, they have to get rid of the powerful V8 engine we love and replace it with a supercharged 6 for example and even further down the road all electric.. It is coming thanks to people like Al Gore and Barack Obama in America, land of the free...

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by RCowan

You say that but I can't help but think that they just pull most of these numbers out of their asses like the new CAFE requirements.

You have a much more positive attitude than I do. I'll just sum it up by saying that it will never be in the parasite's best interest to kill its host, but it sure can make it sick as a dog and keep it from performing at its best.

I have more faith in some governments and public officials than others.

In all seriousness, recommendations do not necessarily become policy. Most of the time, in fact, recommendations are rejected.

[Zabo]

Heres to hoping that they don't force a clause that would include the standards for all cars that predate the 'mandate.' Knowing the treehuggers, they'd probably start going after the Prius, Insight, and Volt too in a few years on the grounds of "They aren't fuel efficent enough~!"

Well christ, why not fart in a bottle and make an air powered car with all that hot air.. <_<

[xl1200r]

49 cents per gallon isn't a lot? WHAT?! That's like $350/yr for the average driver.

I also think a lot of these standards are pulled out of their asses. Can anyone comfirm if the 35mpg mandate is for highway averages? Does is still exclude EPA exepmt vehicles, like large trucks?

Personally, I don't think we're in *that* much trouble. Things like this have been happening since forever, and look at us know - making the kind of power we're making and getting the kind of mileage we're getting. Our small-block run-of-the-mill Camaros are going to be making the same power as the top of the line big block engines did in the past, and we'll be getting more than twice the mileage.

And then there's cars like the Volt - there will be more like it down the road, and car that can not use any gas for the 40 miles really weights the averages in a favorable direction for high-powered cars.

[RCowan]

Originally Posted by xl1200r

49 cents per gallon isn't a lot? WHAT?! That's like $350/yr for the average driver.

I also think a lot of these standards are pulled out of their asses. Can anyone comfirm if the 35mpg mandate is for highway averages? Does is still exclude EPA exepmt vehicles, like large trucks?

Personally, I don't think we're in *that* much trouble. Things like this have been happening since forever, and look at us know - making the kind of power we're making and getting the kind of mileage we're getting. Our small-block run-of-the-mill Camaros are going to be making the same power as the top of the line big block engines did in the past, and we'll be getting more than twice the mileage.

And then there's cars like the Volt - there will be more like it down the road, and car that can not use any gas for the 40 miles really weights the averages in a favorable direction for high-powered cars.

Thing is if the govt is too heavy-handed we may lose a generation of fast cars before the technology can catch up. Things are cool now, but they SUCKED in the 80s / late 70s in the wake of the oil crisis. That's when you saw the only 4cyl fbody. Cats, EGR, OBD, CAFE, came about. etc. But yes, the technology did catch up...eventually... uh oh time for 'the man' to slap us back down again now that we got a leg up.

[Supermans]

http://www.time.com/time/specials/20...658522,00.html

http://www.time.com/time/specials/20...658527,00.html

[StuMac]

Originally Posted by bigralph

Regulators' concern: While transportation accounts for 28% of all U.S. greenhouse-gas emissions, the sector's gases would be reduced by an estimated 9% under a Senate bill pushed earlier this year, even factoring in vehicle- efficiency standards.

Hmmm, .29 * .09 = .0252 = an overall reduction of 2.52% ... well on their way to 90% reduction [/sarcasm]. Stop picking on cars! Just because the interest groups keep focusing on what they can see doesn't mean it's the right answer. This won't help much, and will make a lot of people very angry.

[Kyle2k]

Every time I see one stupid thread come to an end another one seems to start up.

Carmakers may face new emissions standards.

I may win the lottery.

Now may we please quit posting this annoyingly redundant crap.

[The_Blur]

You guys all need to take a class on interest group theories in government.

Allow me to explain why the EPA is trying to make a big deal of this. The EPA wants to get lots of money to operate, so it is trying to make itself appear necessary before a new administration comes into office. Since the EPA is aware of the large public support it has gotten for attempting to make multiple industries greener, the EPA can use this to improve its standing within the federal budget. Currently, the EPA could use more funding to enforce green policies. By seeming more necessary than it really is, the new administration may grant that funding. All agencies do this to secure their survival over time. Interest groups that support the goals of a given agency will lobby on its behalf because agencies are not allowed to lobby for themselves. As a result, the EPA is seeking out support from liberal groups. This is an effective approach because the incoming administration is liberal.

This is an application of interest group theory in political science. It is worth noting that most of these recommendations are not accepted. Every day, the President and other powerful individuals reject proposals in the bureaucracy. Don't worry yet. In any case, you should all be in touch with your elected officials telling them to support your beliefs. It really makes a difference when constituents tell them what to do. Most of the time, they do it.

[detroitboy]

I told everybody here last week that Nancy Pelosi and her crew were gonna do some horse trading to get the California emmission/milage standards nationally from the big 3 before before giving them any financial aid! Buy your hot rod now guys.

Darn...I should buy a crystal ball and a cape. I could be rich. But living in that wagon being pulled by a horse might get kinda smelly. Anybody wanting to know the future can send me a check first.