The BEST Break for a new car. "very long"

[CV3435]

Originally Posted by chappy48

He answered your first question already...see below. About your second question, I was wondering myself, but I don't think the mobil 1 that comes in the car will really hurt anything, maybe just take a little longer to break in the engine then with a non-synthetic.

Ahhh I see...... so engine decelerations arent necessary. And the car comes with mobil 1 synthetic? In the link provided it says synthetic is just too slippery to break in and seal the piston rings.... I'm assuming you are just to use non-synthetic 10w-40 oil for the first 20 miles pushing the car hard then rechange with the same oil up until 1500, then switch to whatever oil you want.

[Darin Morgan]

Originally Posted by Silver Surfer

Darin,

should the traction control be ON or OFF during break-in??

Doesn't Matter.

[Darin Morgan]

Originally Posted by Red SS

Hey D,
What are your thoughts on the following. My car is going to be on the dyno ( its involved in the cai test and Janetty) with around 200 or so miles on it. Should I break the car in some more or will I be ok testing the cai's then continue to follow the break in procedure? Thanks for your time.



Jamie

I personally never use an engine that is not broke in, stabilized and baselined for tests of any kind. Your engine may be fine. I dont know. Your asking a question that's impossible for me to answer unless I have the engine on the dyno and verify that the engine is indeed stable and baselined.


"Stable" Meaning that its not still gaining power every pull you make because its not finished breaking in

"Baselined" Means that every pull you make is the same or with in about 1-2%


If you can make three pulls on the dyno while maintaining stable temps between pulls and those pulls are within 1-%2% of each other I think you could say that the engine is stable and the tests will be valid. If this is indeed the case your engine is already broke in.

[Darin Morgan]

Originally Posted by CV3435

Ahhh I see...... so engine decelerations arent necessary. And the car comes with mobil 1 synthetic? In the link provided it says synthetic is just too slippery to break in and seal the piston rings.... I'm assuming you are just to use non-synthetic 10w-40 oil for the first 20 miles pushing the car hard then rechange with the same oil up until 1500, then switch to whatever oil you want.

Just use the manufactures recommended oil brands and viscosity if in doubt.

As far as changing oils during break in. Not necessary! Just use the oil that's in there. I didn't even change the oil out when I broke mine in. I thought about it but never wanted to go through the hassle. It just takes a little longer with the Mobil1 to get things to come around that's all.

[Darin Morgan]

Originally Posted by Red SS

I wonder if Ted thought about using a motor that may still be breaking itself in.

Your thoughts on the matter are spot on. You NEVER use an engine that is not broke in (stabilized) and baselined before the test is conducted. Most people dont consider this when testing components on new vehicles. Most of the time the power changes during the break in are incrementally small so evaluating power changes with one or two component changes over 5-6 hours on the same day may be statistically insignificant. If your engine is gaining 2hp per pull on the dyno and you try three different CAI on that day in 4-6 pulls that's a max variant of 8hp. If you find that the last intake is worth 12hp over the first, the results would be 12 hp-8hp= 4hp

This is the reason you dont use an engine that you know for sure is still gaining power. The results are skewed. You CAI that's worth a whopping 12hp could actually be worth only 4hp!

This is why you BASELINE! No one can argue with a three or four pull baseline that's total variance is 2-4hp.

ALL professional dyno testing is done a certain way. First have the engine baselined so the power band is not fluctuating. Then do three pulls and average those into a BASE pull. Change what ever component you wish to test. Make three more pulls with the new component and average those pulls into a single one. Then put the original component back on the engine and do three more pulls and average those. If there is a statistical variance from the first BASE to the last base the data is thrown out. If the first and last BASE are the same or within exceptable limes then then you can quantify your results for the component that was changed.
A-B-A testing.

Oh yea, the oil temps, water temps, head temps air temps can not fluctuate either. Not even a little bit. 10 degrees of oil temp can be an easy 2hp increase in power. Drop engine coolant temp by 10 degrees and that's 4hp more you just made. Now think what happens when your testing a CAI, your oil temp just shot up by 10F and you water temp dropped 10F. Your engine just jumped up by 6hp and the CAI your testing just showed a 16hp increase.

No, it made 10hp not 16hp.

Dyno testing is a very scientific proceadure whos underlying variables are often overlooked or worse yet, totaly dimised.

[Silver Surfer]

Darin,

Question on after you put the car into neutral.. i know you want us to let the car slow its self down.. but my space is limited on where i can break the car in.. so is it ok to hit the brakes a little bit when the car is in neutral.. reason y im asking is becuz ill be going on and off the highway and if a car is in front of me and i need to slow down faster than its slowing down so i dnt hit the car, is that ok..?? Thanks for your Help...

[Darin Morgan]

Originally Posted by Silver Surfer

Darin,

Question on after you put the car into neutral.. i know you want us to let the car slow its self down.. but my space is limited on where i can break the car in.. so is it ok to hit the brakes a little bit when the car is in neutral.. reason y im asking is becuz ill be going on and off the highway and if a car is in front of me and i need to slow down faster than its slowing down so i dnt hit the car, is that ok..?? Thanks for your Help...

I think you answered your own question. You dont have a choice.

[Darin Morgan]

Originally Posted by Red SS

Hey D,
Sorry that this is completely off the topic at hand but I know you frequent this thread to help and I wanted to ask your opinion on a question. Would you reccommend 1 3/4" headers or 1 7/8" for a L99 that will be tuned, a u/d pulley, cai, and headers? My thoughts are 1 3/4 but I've been hearing a lot of guys say go with 1 7/8. Thanks for your time.

I know a great deal about cylinder heads and over all induction system design and tuning but I dont know everything. I must rely on those who have done the research and development in certain areas just as you do. In order for me to quantify the power potential of different header designs I would have to have an engine on the dyno, buy many sets of headers and evaluate each one at great cost to myself and my company. What I am trying to say is this. Go ask the guys who know. There are many professional tuners that have evaluated different header tube sizes, lengths and designs. I went with the 1 7/8 because that is what was recommended to me by guys who have done the testing. I went with the 1 7/8 American Racing long tubes with high flow CATs and X pipe and some loud Mouth IIs because thats what the guys at New Era and the guys at American Racing told me would work best.

[ChevyThunder]

Originally Posted by Darin Morgan

Earlier in this thread a very perceptive individual pointed out to me that the Mototunes web site stated to accelerate and decelerate during the engine break in procedure. This worried me a bit because NO automotive engine should ever be motored down ( engine braked) during break in and I know this from 26 years of engine break in experience on literally thousands of engines. I was very perplexed as to why the guy on the Mototunes web site would say this. Then it came to me like a slap in the face. He builds motorcycle engines! These engines have Nickasil and or “chrome” coated cylinder walls! The rings wear characteristics and ring material itself is far different than what ever is used in an OEM engine. We have used Nickasil in Pro Stock engines before but just about everyone now runs cast iron (Compacted graphite) cylinder walls. The break in procedure for Nickasil is far different in the fact that the rings can loose lubrication, Gaul or micro weld in the ring groove and on the wall itself. For this reason the engine break in procedure is different in the regard to engine braking or “motoring down”. It’s a way of getting oil up to the ring to keep it from wiping out. Molly, PVD or coated faced rings used on cast iron cylinder walls have totally different wear characteristics and do not need the additional oil that comes from motoring down or engine breaking.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikasil
Nikasil is a trademarked electrodeposited oleophilic nickel matrix silicon carbide coating for engine components, mainly piston engine cylinder liners.

I have Mahle Nikasil cylinders in this and we take them right off the dyno after rebuild and race them cranked up to 18 lbs of boost . These cars were competative in IMSA for close to ten years in the late 70's to mid 80's and the oils were not as good as they are now and they lived and ran hard out of the box. So I always believed in breaking them like you have done ....

[Mr. Brownstone]

Hey Darin,

Is it true that the most critical break-in period is the first 0-20 miles placed on the vehicle?

If this is true, it seems I will do this just trying to warm her up when I pick her up from the dealer. Thanks for all your help.

[Darin Morgan]

Originally Posted by Mr. Brownstone

Hey Darin,

Is it true that the most critical break-in period is the first 0-20 miles placed on the vehicle?

If this is true, it seems I will do this just trying to warm her up when I pick her up from the dealer. Thanks for all your help.

No true.

[BLACK]

thanks Dr.Morgan, you helped me a lot.

i have a small question . I've understood that i should not hit the pedal from 0mph , so what is the perfect speed to hit the pedal to the metal until i reach 90mph?.

thanks again,

[Darin Morgan]

Originally Posted by BLACK

thanks Dr.Morgan, you helped me a lot.

i have a small question . I've understood that i should not hit the pedal from 0mph , so what is the perfect speed to hit the pedal to the metal until i reach 90mph?.

thanks again,

I was saying you dont have to hit it from a standing start. That doesn't mean you cant. If you want to spin the tires a little and have some fun then go for it. Some guys dont want to. If you dont want to burn some tread then just start from a 2-5mph roll.

[DFollis]

Darin,

Just wanted to get your opinion, if i had to guess i would say i have about 30 hard pulls on it with about 730 miles i have definitely noticed a differnece in the power but you say it will not reach its full potential till about 1500 miles? Also i still notice that the engine bogs down a lil bit from about 10mph roll is this still normal?

When do you recomend that i should change the oil and what type?

Thanks for your help!