Does your top have rub marks from being down?

[Xorshaik]

Originally Posted by Tiberious

Perhaps a thread on the care and feeding of a convertible top is in order. Any experts out there want to share their wisdom?

Tib

Where I've been involved with testing a top, namely cycling it up and down a number of cycles that represents the number of years the expected life of the car, including cycles in high temperature and low temperature environments... Wear marks have been something that, when seen at the end of the life, there is a subjective judgement as to whether they are acceptable or not. At the end of a test, marks that are barely visible may or may not be okay. Marks that are clearly visible, probably not okay. Wear that reaches the point of being a hole is definitely not okay.

When wear marks appear earlier in the cycle, the same rules apply, but basicly they get watched to see whether they get worse or not. They don't always get worse.

There shouldn't be any particular maintainance needed to keep this from happenning, it really just shouldn't happen with a vehicle in-warranty. With that said, doing your own mods or repairs risks losing your ability to have a warranty claim.

Let me say this about warranty: warranty is important to the OEM because it's a cost that the OEM wants to avoid, and when something is driving a lot of warranty cost it gets attention. Not just because of the cost, but because warranty also indicates that the OEM is at risk of losing customers and reputation.

[Xorshaik]

Originally Posted by Drago77

Not disputing your opinion at all, but I think we have two topics crossed here- there is another thread discussing the proper position for storing the car to maintain the tops longevity, while this particular thread is dedicated to the wear marks caused by the bracket placement....

The wear marks are aggregated by the driving vibrations causing the pinch to wear through the fabric. Whereas raising the top over extended periods reduces the risk of creases and excessive wearing-out of the top....

Maybe it was just me thrown a little off by the earlier response...I am still reeling from a horrible pre-season home opener....

Just started through the first of the 25 pages, bear with me.

[Xorshaik]

Originally Posted by CooG

Take a black piece of cloth and start rubbing something hard up against it.....and watch the dye start to fade. Just a natural reaction to dark fabrics wearing.

gaddied - never heard of a conditioner for a cloth top. Do they make one?

Second - has anyone considered ScotchGuarding their top? I'm thinking of masking the body up one day and spraying my top with ScotchGuard. Should help the wear some, but will definately protect it from water, bird crap, tree sap, etc.....

Two cans should cover the top easily. Something that could be done 1-2 times a year depending on weather in your area.

In case there's any doubt, white wear marks can be examined under a microscope and you'll be able to see broken threads. Fading from the sun will be corrected with dye, but this will be something you would see over a large area. In that case, though, fading from UV exposure is something that the fabric is tested for, and even in that case you shouldn't see sun fading to the extent you'd need to dye it while it's under warranty.

[dpartch]

OK Guys, I got the car back today. And what I was affriad of happened.
Top looks OK, excepts for 2 areas , that have wrinkles, so guess what, next week it will go back to the shop. Also after the only a 30 mile test drive. Rub marks. So as soon as I get the car back the top will stay up until the new fix comes out. Aslo the dealer did farm out the work.

Also do not fix the top your self, it will void your warranty. At least that is what me deal told me.

Nebraska also has a lemon law, so I think I will check that out as well.

GM - This is told Bull-S#$T.
Were is the fix. I paid good money for my car and waited along time to get it. It was delived in April and I have only put 1500 miles on it, as of today, because of this issue. I want it replace with a 2012.

I think I might go talk to attorney about a class action law suit.
Who would like the join in.......

[Xorshaik]

Originally Posted by oramac1

I was going to order the convert today and would arrive as a 2012...but after seeing this thread this is NOT GOOD, NOT GOOD AT ALL.

I have just sent the Chevy Rep a how to fix this problem via email for their engineering team.........

Here's your temporary fix.....take a washcloth, terry cloth towel, small piece of thin rubber matting, and place under and at the point of tension potential binding, when folded and adding the cover place a beach or any long towel in place, then cover without forcing it.

If nearby go to a reputable car parts/tire store and order or purchase tire inner tubes, bike tubes are excellent also for the braces. Cut to fit and place between the metal frame and top underneath and the larger pieces to the topside, its easy to do and will stop the problem prior to the GM fix...been there done that obviously.

If they had done there proper due diligence they would have had this fixed prior to production, but alas GM still is doing the "I'd rather not get it right for an additional $20.00 in production parts and $1,000 in engineering overhead" to avoid such an obvious issue with the roofs dynamics.

Document, Document, Document.....also file a complaint with NAFTA in DC immediately to this topic, they will send out a form fill it out, and they will indeed move to get this fixed FAST.

Last things first. NAFTA is the North America Free Trade Agreement. There isn't any international trade involved - not that it's relevant.

You may have been thinking of NHTSA, the national highway transportation safety administration. Still, this is not a safety issue.

Where regulatory authority does come in is if the OEM was using terry cloth, washcloth or inner tubes. These are not necessarily materials that would pass federal motor vehicle safety standards, in particular the regulations regarding flamability.

You can mitigate these kinds of wear issues (possibly) by putting a towel over the top before it goes down so that the towel is wherever the fabric is folding, and you might wear the towel before you wear the convertible top. But this isn't necessarily always a good idea, it might keep the top from folding down all the way, and if the wear is coming from the inside out rather than the outside in, it would still happen.

Causes of these kinds of wear can be any of a number of issues, speaking in general.

1) fabric may be folding in a manner that causes it to be pinched
2) stops might be set wrong
3) there might be incorrect assembly
4) there might be sharp edges on the mechanism or top bows
5) pinching might be inherent in the mechanism geometry
6) pivot joints might be loose, allowing vibration
7) any one or more parts might be bent or manufactured out of spec.


The whole thing with convertible tops is that every piece contributes to the position of all the other moving pieces. The system attaches to the body at the rear at some pivot, and usually you have a rail seperated into 3 pieces, and each piece is controlled by a linkage system.

Each linkage system might be one of several configurations, but a common configuration is the 4-bar linkage, so I'll just use that as an example. Typically, this is basicly a parallelogram (in practice, not usually parallel nor equal sides), and one of the links is driven and it will rotate from nearly flat on one extreme to nearly flat on the other.

What this means is that small variations in the position of each pivot gets magnified by the time you get to the front of top where it interfaces with the body above the windshield.

I've simulated variation of 0.0008" at each joint and seen it cause 2" of variation at the far end.

The bottom line is precision is very important to these parts, and if pivot points are out of spec, the top might sit too high when it's open and need to be forced down, or it might sit too low and pinch fabric. Adjustable stops can allow for adjustments to try to correct these variations, but you can really only target one particular goal while having to live with other things moving around as a result.

And beyond that, whatever the fix is, it's hard to say if it will be as simple as replacing a top or adding a bracket or if it will be something more involved.

[Xorshaik]

Originally Posted by dpartch

OK Guys, I got the car back today. And what I was affriad of happened.
Top looks OK, excepts for 2 areas , that have wrinkles, so guess what, next week it will go back to the shop. Also after the only a 30 mile test drive. Rub marks. So as soon as I get the car back the top will stay up until the new fix comes out. Aslo the dealer did farm out the work.

Wrinkles should relax, unless they missed some sort of connection during installation. At the tier 1, often the top will be steamed to dewrinkle it. It's pretty much the same as using a steam surge from an iron. This is also done with seats.

I should think that dealers can do this, but I'm not sure...

You might also be able to get this to clear up by just having the car sit in the sun with the top up.

[Drago77]

Also do not fix the top your self, it will void your warranty. At least that is what the dealer told me

I was very concerned about this as well, which I why I left my car as is until after the first top replacement... but after all the bullshit involved in that mess, when it started happening again- I couldn't just sit back and watch it get ruined again... at this point, its costing me money (tint, fabric garden, gas) and time (repeated trips to the service dept) and weeks without my car (which, of course I'm still making monthly payments and insurance on, even though its sitting in a shop somewhere)...

Anyway, my point is- it was (uselessly) fixed once, cost the dealer/GM to do so, now its happening again, and while I completely understand the idea of "voiding the warranty with home mods" doesn't it stand to reason that, as long as its been documented at the dealer, if we make a small modification to save the existing top from being destroyed until the real fix comes out, that GM will honor the issue (especially being that its a mass problem) and appreciate not having to replace another entire top?

Dunno if that makes sense to anyone else, but that's my line of thinking.... I just can't sit by and watch my $42k of very hard earned money deteriorate

[gaddied]

[QUOTE=SUX2BU;3608235]I have attached pics of the only numbers I that are on my brackets. The both say "REV 2" and one says "ASM 104 0200" and the other says "ASM 105 0200".


These are casting numbers of the parts , not the part numbers. I call GM parts and the parts person had to talk with someone to get the P/N's they are not listed on line or in the parts book.
That was yesterday no call back yet, I don't think they will call back.
If anyone gets the part numbers PLEASE list them here.
Thanks for your help.

[pnyklr]

Has anyone with a 2012 convert posted pictures of the affected areas?

-Funk

[COLD_Cam]

Just curious,

Is it just us with the black top who have the rub marks problem, what about the beige tops?

What about the convertibles that were built since june (model 2011 and 2012), do they have the same problem?

[Drago77]

Originally Posted by COLD_Cam

Just curious,

Is it just us with the black top who have the rub marks problem, what about the beige tops?

What about the convertibles that were built since june (model 2011 and 2012), do they have the same problem?

Seen a beige, delivered in March with marks....

[Big Kid]

Originally Posted by COLD_Cam

Just curious,

Is it just us with the black top who have the rub marks problem, what about the beige tops?

What about the convertibles that were built since june (model 2011 and 2012), do they have the same problem?

Mine was built 03/31/11. It has a beige top, and yes there are pinch marks! In fact, the one on the passager side is almost wore through. Dealer service department has been trying differant fixes before installing new top. So far they haven't found the fix, hoping GM comes up with something soon!
The bottom line is, if you enjoy driving with the top down you will get the marks, if you drive with the top up and the air on you won't, but the air might not work!

[MiSS1LE]

Went by my local Dearler on Saturaday with relatives so they could buy a new Truck ( tried to get them to look at a Camaro) while they were busy doing their process I went to look around at the Camaros this one is considered the largest inventoried lot with Chevrolet's in my area and We (husband &I) walked the entire lot looked over all the convertibles and ALL of them black or tan tops had markings of some kind either an indentation or rub / white spots on passenger side a few had them on driver side also

[Drago77]

Originally Posted by WhiteVert

Went by my local Dearler on Saturaday with relatives so they could buy a new Truck ( tried to get them to look at a Camaro) while they were busy doing their process I went to look around at the Camaros this one is considered the largest inventoried lot with Chevrolet's in my area and We (husband &I) walked the entire lot looked over all the convertibles and ALL of them black or tan tops had markings of some kind either an indentation or rub / white spots on passenger side a few had them on driver side also

I've trimmed, I've moved brackets, I've got a new top that's worse than the old, WITH rediculous wind noise... B/S! .... happy happy joy joy!