Fouth Gen Camaro vs. Subaru STi

[MrCool]

Hello Folks,
I have a friend, who I always get into a certain conversation with that bugs the heck out of me:

Everytime we get into a car discussion, he talks about how great the Subaru STi is (BTW not the WRX STi). And everytime I say that a Camaro (spesifically the fourth generation) is faster he flips out and talks so much trash.

Which one is faster? Because when I go on youtube, all I see is Fourth Gen Camaro's beating the hell out of some modded STi. What'll happen is that the STi will get the better launch, but in no time at all the Camaro will catch up and pass it.

Stock for stock, will an STi beat a Camaro? If not, what'll it take to beat one I wonder?

He said he was saving to get one (his "dream car"). Can't wait until I get my DL, hopefully I'll allready have my "dream car". (Dad has a 94 Z28)

The STi is like the ultimate ricer too, right?

[The_Blur]

The STi is a high-quality car. It has many advantages in many different categories. Don't underestimate one of the world's strongest AWD manufacturers. They work hard on their suspensions, and their turbochargers can be easily swapped to create even more menacing road beasts.

The Z28 is also a mean machine. Be sure to have it appropriately modified. Japanese cars have a reputation for being "riced out," meaning that the STi is likely to have bolt-ons at the very least. You should respond with similar or superior treatments, including suspension work and even more serious modifications, like an aggressive cam swap.

The truth is that these cars tend to compete in different categories. The STi is oriented toward rally racing while the Z28 is more of a quarter mile pet. Establish what kind of races you want to win before preparing your car for victory. You can't expect to win track evens, autocross events, and rally events with the same car.

Pick your battles, then pick your mods.

[MrCool]

Hmm...you know Blur, I didn't think about those factors.

Well, on a track, I guess it's kinda of a given that an STi would win.

My assumption was on a 1/4 mile sort of track, and if I mod it, I would want to mod it towards a straight track. I dont' think I want to mod it towards something it's wasn't really designed for. (IE: I would want to win on the Camaro's turf A track isn't a typical muscle car's turf )

You're also right in that you shouldn't underestimate it...I agree.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by MrCool

Hmm...you know Blur, I didn't think about those factors.

Well, on a track, I guess it's kinda of a given that an STi would win.

My assumption was on a 1/4 mile sort of track, and if I mod it, I would want to mod it towards a straight track. I dont' think I want to mod it towards something it's wasn't really designed for. (IE: I would want to win on the Camaro's turf A track isn't a typical muscle car's turf )

You're also right in that you shouldn't underestimate it...I agree.

I talk a lot about how I resent my Subaru, but the fair truth is that they design incredible performers. Most of my frustration stems from driving a car that was not entirely or even minutely my choice. I'd rather not get into the specifics at this juncture, but I have a lot of respect for Subaru products to say the least. They might have a JDM or ricer reputation, but they win races and have earned a reputation despite their occasionally ridiculous drivers.

[MrCool]

Originally Posted by The_Blur

...but they win races and have earned a reputation despite their occasionally ridiculous drivers.

Yes, I agree.

Ok, so my goal is set, when I have the $$$, I would probably want to race on a straight 1/4 mile track of the sort.

And I now know the next time I see one on a curvy road, act like I'm lost.

[blaSSt]

The only conversation worth having is stock vs. stock. It depends on what year STI one is talking about. Any STI will soundly beat a stock LT1. And with an LS1 it comes down to a drivers race.

Rated 0-60/1/4mile? 2006 STI 4.9/13.2 2002 4th Gen SS 5.2/13.2
Magazine 0-60/1/4mile? 2006 STI 5.0/13.0 4th Gen 5.2/13.6
Dragtimes average 1/4 mile? STI 13.4 4th Gen 13.4

That makes it a drivers race. AWD on the STI gives it an advantage 0-60 off the line. 4th gens makes it up on the back end (if they got a good launch).

There have been a few factory freak 4th gens that got down to 12.8, but that also seems to have happened with Subarus also. (see link above)

[Sterling]

My first car was a 1986 Subaru RX Turbo... The only race I ever lost in high school was to a 1979 Firebird Formula w/ a big block 400 in it. That was a great first car... I'm glad that the only loss was to an F-body. I did race a dirt bike one time that was faster in the straights than I was , but couldn't keep up in the twisties... that was really fun!

[MrCool]

But that doesn't mean the LT1 is lost? It's not like it would loose horribly. Right? Wouldn't it just take a few mods to beat it?

:( :( :(

That is my goal, when I have some extra cash, put it towards beating the heck out of his "dream car"...

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by blaSSt

The only conversation worth having is stock vs. stock. It depends on what year STI one is talking about. Any STI will soundly beat a stock LT1. And with an LS1 it comes down to a drivers race.



That makes it a drivers race. AWD on the STI gives it an advantage 0-60 off the line. 4th gens makes it up on the back end (if they got a good launch).

There have been a few factory freak 4th gens that got down to 12.8, but that also seems to have happened with Subarus also. (see link above)

I beg to differ on that.


AWD helping off the line is a yes/no type thing. yes, you are applying power to all 4 wheels from the start, but you are dividing the power more ways.

being turbo'd, it will have better results once the car is moving. LT1s have ass loads of torque down low. the power band goes to ~285 from 1800rpms all the way thru ~5800rpms.

what that means is that if you can launch, you can get off the line in a hurry. it would be a close match depending on what all mods the STI has.

and being that your LT1 is over 14 years old, im sure the transmission wont shift like it should at WOT. (just a fact of life with these cars)

[MrCool]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

and being that your LT1 is over 14 years old, im sure the transmission wont shift like it should at WOT. (just a fact of life with these cars)

Yea, you're right. Although it was recently rebuilt though...

EDIT: (BTW, I appreciate the imput guys)

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by MrCool

Yea, you're right. Although it was recently rebuilt though...

EDIT: (BTW, I appreciate the imput guys)

where was it rebuilt at? do you know what all they did to it? new rings? bearings? line hone? etc? jw.

[MrCool]

I think it was everything...I have to check w/my dad...I forgot

[blaSSt]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

I beg to differ on that.

AWD helping off the line is a yes/no type thing. yes, you are applying power to all 4 wheels from the start, but you are dividing the power more ways.

being turbo'd, it will have better results once the car is moving. LT1s have ass loads of torque down low. the power band goes to ~285 from 1800rpms all the way thru ~5800rpms.

what that means is that if you can launch, you can get off the line in a hurry. it would be a close match depending on what all mods the STI has.

Well soundly is relative. All of your assertions are also relative. How about some facts.

FACT In a 1/4 mile race the LT1 can expect to be beat by 0.8-1.0 seconds or about 10 car lengths. Best stock LT1 times are around 14.0, most in high 14's. Best WRX time is 12.8 with many low 13's.

FACT WRX STI is rated 0-60 at 4.9, LT1 camaro is rated 6.3. Camaro is destroyed off the line. (There's another relative term.)

FACT Power to weight ratio favors Subaru:
WRX STI: 3000 lbs. / 300 hP = 10 lbs. per horsepower.
LT1 Camaro: 3400 lbs. / 275 hP = 12.4 lbs. per horsepower.

Originally Posted by MrCool

But that doesn't mean the LT1 is lost? It's not like it would loose horribly. Right? Wouldn't it just take a few mods to beat it?
That is my goal, when I have some extra cash, put it towards beating the heck out of his "dream car"...

Your camaro needs a boost of 70-100 horsepower (more than a few bolt-ons). A very good tranny as stated and a good torque converter, suspension/tire mods to allow full throttle takeoffs. Cheapest way is to spray it with a 100 shot, that would be a good race for 1/4. Of course you need more if the STI is modified.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Hopefully that's better than finding out other ways.

[The_Blur]

Originally Posted by blaSSt

Well soundly is relative. All of your assertions are also relative. How about some facts.

FACT In a 1/4 mile race the LT1 can expect to be beat by 0.8-1.0 seconds or about 10 car lengths. Best stock LT1 times are around 13.8, most in low 14's. Best WRX time is 12.8 with many low 13's.

FACT WRX STI is rated 0-60 at 4.9, LT1 camaro is rated 6.3. Camaro is destroyed off the line. (There's another relative term.)

FACT Power to weight ratio favors Subaru:
WRX STI: 3000 lbs. / 300 hP = 10 lbs. per horsepower.
LT1 Camaro: 3400 lbs. / 275 hP = 12.4 lbs. per horsepower.

Your camaro needs a boost of 70-100 horsepower (more than a few bolt-ons). A very good tranny as stated and a good torque converter, suspension/tire mods to allow full throttle takeoffs. Cheapest way is to spray it with a 100 shot, that would be a good race for 1/4. Of course you need more if the STI is modified.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. Hopefully that's better than finding out other ways.

Based upon these statistics, we can deduce what we will need to do to your car to get some quality wins. I hope you have about $4k in the bank for immediate disposal. Install headers and a catback exhaust. I'll let the other guys argue about which ones to buy. Get an intake from a good company, like K&N or SLP. Get the MSD distributor that is available for 1994 to 1996 applications. At this point, get the car tuned at a dyno so we know where you stand.

Remove some weight (114 lbs) if you can afford this.

If your internals have already been upgraded, I would also recommend supercharging your engine. In my research, a lot of LT1 owners like ProCharger because other applications are so expensive to install, plus there have been clearance issues due to the structure of the hood. If you are installing forced induction, you may want to consider getting an aftermarket hood. I would recommend making sure that whatever you install involves an intercooler and careful tuning in order to make sure that you get the most for your dollar and don't blow anything up.