lsx engine blows up--update

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by fastfaster

MaxChevy Magazine Volume III, Issue 3, Page 52 Dr Jamie Meyer Interview “I don’t think we’ve ever had anything like what this LSX 454 will be with all-forged internals and cylinder heads that flow close to 400cfm. With a power adder on that, you’d be able to quickly create a 1,200 or 1,300 horsepower street car.” Hard Copy Of Article Attached
VETTE Magazine November, 2007 issue Dr Jamie Meyer Interview The cast-iron LSX cylinder block uses a variety of heavy-duty features to support up to a claimed 2,500 hp. Hard Copy Of Article Attached
Super Chevy September, 2009 issue In an experiment backed by GM Performance Parts (GMPP), Detroit-area engine builder Thomson Automotive (www.thomsonengines.com) decided to push GMPP's LSX block to see whether it lived up to the advertised claim of supporting 2,000 hp. It did it with some custom parts and a couple of huge turbochargers…….. The engine has made nearly 2,050 hp on the dyno. Hard Copy Of Article Attached
"Like everything in GMPP's portfolio, the LSX block was subjected to 50 hours of full-load durability testing prior to its public release, but this was something special," says Dr. Jamie Meyer of GM Performance Parts. "There have been more than 200 dyno pulls on the engine without a problem and we don't know what the maximum power capability of the engine is. We had to pull it off the dyno in order to finish the car." http://www.superchevy.com/features/i...lsx/index.html


For those interested in big nitrous systems, large superchargers, or twin turbocharging, the LSX is the block for you. Article written by jamie myer super chevy http://www.superchevy.com/technical/...ild/index.html



Jannetty Racing October 6-9 2010.LSX Shootout-O'Reilly Raceway Park - Indianapolis, IN When Dr Jamie Meyer was Asked By The Owner Of Jannetty Racing What The Dr Thought Of Using A LSX-454 with a supercharger to make 1000 rwhp in a 2010 camaro, Dr Jamie Meyer replied it would be ok.
There are countless references about the LSX-454 block being able to handle 1500 to 2050 horsepower. Some of those references are in the 2011 GM Performance Parts Catalog.
Here is a sampling of those references in the GMPP Catolog:
Second Page, Not Page Two: “A bomb-proof LSX block”
Page 186: Lsx Block Max Horsepower Rating 1500+
Page 192: “1700 horsepower turbo engine for an Outlaw drag racer, the LSX Bowtie Block is the foundation”
Page 213: LSX-454 Pistons- “dependable performance, even with high boost and nitrous-assisted applications”
2nd To The Last Page: “Because our new LSX blocks take the LS-series to the extreme, It’s engineered to take over 2000 horsepower”.
__________________

again, none of this shows any culpability on GMPP's part. it shows that GMPP claims you have the potential to make quadruple digit power numbers with an LSX and "some custom parts".

and I have yet to see anything that says what specifically Jamie said outside of "ok" for this build.

[fastfaster]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

and I have yet to see anything that says what specifically Jamie said outside of "ok" for this build.

ohh sorry. maybe i didnt post this article quote that is outside of "ok" for this build. here it is again:
MaxChevy Magazine Volume III, Issue 3, Page 52 Dr Jamie Meyer Interview: With a power adder on that, you’d be able to quickly create a 1,200 or 1,300 horsepower street car.”

[fastfaster]

i gotta go.....i need a cigar

[mikepage0007]

Originally Posted by CamaroSpike23

I've read it many times. but yet it still does not say that you WILL make that much power. not to mention, he doesnt say what power adder, nitrous, sc, tc?

its too open ended.

semantics or not. its still a weak argument.

If I walked up to you and told you I can fly an airplane, would you believe me?
But like I said before, I am with you that I think something was defective with the block, but solely using a quote from 3 years ago isnt going to hold much water.

i have to disagree, it is all under the implication...believe it or not, he is implying that this motor and the way it is built{ forged internals and cylinder heads} that with a simple modification it can obtain 1200 hp...i believe gm need to look at this block and verify if it was or was not damage to a flaw...they owe that much to all other lsx owners who have shelled out $$$ for it...how many other companies have had to recall cars that are 10 years old as they found fault parts that need to be replaced..however if they found that damage was not from a defect , then they followed there obligation..its a tough call...sometimes being in business you just have to weigh the ups and downs...if you were charged with murder after picking up a bloody gun at a crime scene, that was lying next to the victim , 5 minutes after they were killed and it was someone you disliked...there was no witnesses, and the police showed up 10 seconds ater you got there and saw you put down the gun that you moved away from victim....you know that you did not do it, but all evidence showed you did it, everyone believed you did it...state gives you 5rs probation with no police record, and with no legal costs that will eat your entire life savings ..or take chance of going to court spend your entire life savings { attorneys} while sitting behind bars for a year awaiting trial, to face good chance of guilty and life in jail..which do you pick????..gm ends everything with nondisclosure and 1500.00 there cost with controlling all public opinion...or negative opinion{cost unknown-}legal fees - more than 1500.00..imo.sorry about long posts, just bored..lol

[CC Performance]

I think you just need to quit with this thread I am sick of seeing it bounce up to the top for BS reasons. Many many people use the block with great success. You pushed the envelope and got burned, simple as that. We dont offer it for boost in that configuration, others do. When you living on the edge, which is what this build was for boost, your going to have things happen. Post this crap up on Corvete forum or ls1tech or yellowbullet and see what you get for responses. It wont be a nice as on here for a reason.

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by fastfaster

ohh sorry. maybe i didnt post this article quote that is outside of "ok" for this build. here it is again:
MaxChevy Magazine Volume III, Issue 3, Page 52 Dr Jamie Meyer Interview: With a power adder on that, you’d be able to quickly create a 1,200 or 1,300 horsepower street car.”

that doesnt say that GMPP will warranty the engine/build if you do so.

and that doesn't say that you WILL create a 1200 or 1300 hp street car just by adding a power adder.

it says that you'd be able to. meaning you have the potential to. that you CAN/COULD make that power level with adding a power level. not that you will.

and again, that is an article quoted from a magazine. what I want to know is what he SAID to Janetty that would make it "ok" to use the sc and that it would be covered by GMPP warranty.

[Russell James]

Doesn't matter how much hp your making, a crate motor has a written warranty in black and white.

If there is a defect in material or workmanship, and that defect causes damage, it is covered. Also in black and white is the fact that if a supercharger, turbo charger or nitrous caused the damage, it is not covered. For someone to say - if it's supercharged, they won't touch it, is just an opinion not the written warranty facts. Some late comers to the conversation may want to read the warranty a little closer, and look up the definition of "caused" before claiming superior engine building knowledge.

Makes zero difference if the engine was modified in a way you disagree with. The warranty question depends on what caused the damage. A qualified powertrain engineer could easily inspect the parts and diagnose a reasonable cause. Short of that, is mostly speculation and opinions.

[fastfaster]

Originally Posted by CC Performance

I think you just need to quit with this thread I am sick of seeing it bounce up to the top for BS reasons. Many many people use the block with great success. You pushed the envelope and got burned, simple as that. We dont offer it for boost in that configuration, others do. When you living on the edge, which is what this build was for boost, your going to have things happen. Post this crap up on Corvete forum or ls1tech or yellowbullet and see what you get for responses. It wont be a nice as on here for a reason.

i find your topics and posts boring, but i dont post negative
mean spirited posts about you.

[mikepage0007]

jsut for your info, back in 77 i believe, the chevy 350,s had a defective cam that was made of soft metal that failed over time...gm was slow to do anything, i actually had a 77 van and a corvette with this cam , and had replaced it in the van ..not knowing that there was an issue..no internet.... friend had same problem couple months later, same motor, did some research and found others had same problem... he sued gm and within 1 week he was called and resolved issue ...signed nondisclosure and motor was rebuilt...6 months later my vette failed, took to gm dealer and they diaganosed that cam was wiped and wanted $$$ to fix...car was 5 yrs old..told them i knew about defective cam problems, that vendor supplied cams were made from too soft metal..after 2 days ...engine was rebuilt no chrge..you never know...brand new 2010 camaro ls3 360 rwhp camaro,s breaking driveshafts...guess what..there was a flaw that stopped production for almost 4 weeks to fix that issue..nobody is perfect...maybe the lsx block had problem , maybe not...but gm should of looked at issue if they want public backing...it would be the proper thing to do...

[2010 SS RS]

Originally Posted by fastfaster

you are simply being silly with semantics. stop sounding like a shady lawyer and read the below article quote:


MaxChevy Magazine Volume III, Issue 3, Page 52 Dr Jamie Meyer Interview “I don’t think we’ve ever had anything like what this LSX 454 will be with all-forged internals and cylinder heads that flow close to 400cfm. With a power adder on that, you’d be able to quickly create a 1,200 or 1,300 horsepower street car.”

I thought that this was in writing directly to you not from a mag interview 3+ years ago prior to its introduction and testing...

The current write up on the GMPP site clearly states this is a NA replacement motor.

Now I do think the lsx block itself is a solid configuration for a big build. But not the pre built lsx454 NA set up.

Seems like Dr. Jamie Meyer is not an engineer or engine builder or qc tester.

I think we must all rely on what is currently written from GM regarding these engines and I think everyone here agrees their warranty does not cover anything once the power adder was installed unless it was part of a GMPP package developed for that motor.

Honestly, after reading the interview with Jamie I would not base anything off of his suggestions with any more credibility than a guy I run into at a car show. He is an enthusiast just like us. And god knows I dont know jack shi& other than what I personally have experienced.

As a former bobble head I now listen to those that have successful long term dependable high HP builds.

Hopefully, you dont feel like anyone including myself is faulting you or Ted in any way... But I dont think we are faulting GM either. Not saying it was not defective to start with but there is not a responsibility from them post power adders per their written warranty. I think we are all just discussing what would need to be done to build a solid and safe lsx454 SC build. And some of us simply do not think that the lsx454 crate is the starting point. The starting point should be the lsx454 block. Then start with the bore that meets the boost requirements. Then select pistons for that bore with a dish that will create the chosen compression ratio. The bolt pattern is awesome and strong on the lsx so it should hold tons of boost. And unlike the ford block does not need a girdle to strengthen it on the bottom. Well a dead horse has been beaten. All I know is that a ton of folks have benefited from your story and hopefully have been saved from the same dang problems in the future.

[mikepage0007]

people or companies with integrity always do the right thing...if i did a job and customer said something was wrong, and he did this and that..but my job failed him, i would want to see what failed , and if it was my doing ...if i hung some sheetrock and he put a 70lb picture on it, i would expect my sheetrock to not fall off the studs...if it did not perform as exppected, i want to see why...if i state that my engine should be able to handle easily handle x amount of hp and falls well short of that wiuth catastrophic faiure...i owe that to my customer and other customers that it is a tuner issue or block issue...imo

[Prochargedchevyi]

Originally Posted by mikepage0007

people or companies with integrity always do the right thing...if i did a job and customer said something was wrong, and he did this and that..but my job failed him, i would want to see what failed , and if it was my doing ...if i hung some sheetrock and he put a 70lb picture on it, i would expect my sheetrock to not fall off the studs...if it did not perform as exppected, i want to see why...if i state that my engine should be able to handle easily handle x amount of hp and falls well short of that wiuth catastrophic faiure...i owe that to my customer and other customers that it is a tuner issue or block issue...imo

Let's flip that around...

If you manufactured a proven product that you knew worked, but let someone else modify and install it - would you still be as apt to investigate?

[mikepage0007]

Originally Posted by Prochargedchevyi

Let's flip that around...

If you had a proven product that you knew worked, but let someone else install it - would you still be as apt to investigate?

sure , would you not want to know why it failed..tell me 1 thing { moving parts}in this world that works 100% of the time ,and has never failed....just one...now if engine was running over the last 6 months and blew, then i would say tuner issue,not defective, but from what i have read this is a fresh build with fresh dyno...and catastrophic failure..if this is incorrect. than i misread..there is no such thing has a prove product...toyota has many proven products that engineers spent thousands of hrs proving...yet they still failed ..NO SUCH THING AS PROVEN PRODUCT...nasa spent hundreds of thousands of hrs on proven product b4 challenger space shuttle blew up killing everyone on board in less 20 seconds off the pad.. so flip it anyway you want , if my work or parts fail, i want to see it...i have integrity and by no means am i a god that has or does anything that is perfect...you sound like just because you have a product , your above having any imperfection or defect...thats called arrogance..sorry..now if the person exceded what i made the part to do, then no...but if i read correctly , the implied gm rep said that engine was capable of easily attaing 12-1300hp with adder... falls well below the expectations..

[CamaroSpike23]

Originally Posted by mikepage0007

sure , would you not want to know why it failed..tell me 1 thing { moving parts}in this world that works 100% of the time ,and has never failed....just one...now if engine was running over the last 6 months and blew, then i would say tuner issue,not defective, but from what i have read this is a fresh build with fresh dyno...and catastrophic failure..if this is incorrect. than i misread..there is no such thing has a prove product...toyota has many proven products that engineers spent thousands of hrs proving...yet they still failed ..NO SUCH THING AS PROVEN PRODUCT...nasa spent hundreds of thousands of hrs on proven product b4 challenger space shuttle blew up killing everyone on board in less 20 seconds off the pad.. so flip it anyway you want , if my work or parts fail, i want to see it...i have integrity and by no means am i a god that has or does anything that is perfect...you sound like just because you have a product , your above having any imperfection or defect...thats called arrogance..sorry..now if the person exceded what i made the part to do, then no...but if i read correctly , the implied gm rep said that engine was capable of easily attaing 12-1300hp with adder...well falls well below the expectations..

but, if the warranty your company issues states that the product wont be covered if you modify this or that, and a consumer buys your product, modifies it out of your warranty range then it breaks.

would you want to spend the thousands (if not more) of $$$ to figure out if it was truly your product that broke because of faulty building when your company isnt going to warranty the product anyway because the customer modified it?