Ford gunning for the Z/28?

[shaffe]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

I missed the Dearborn Dispatch with the announcement of a Trinity-powered F-Series.

When was the Lightning re-launched?

Thought so...

As to your assertion that V8 truck buyers aren't concerned about FE, that is simply NOT true. Short of all-out racing (something almost no one buys a new truck for), FE is on the minds of anyone NOT a trust fund baby. Maybe not their paramount deciding factor, but it IS a consideration. But it's OBVIOUSLY not high on V8 Ford (and EcoBoost) Truck buyers' minds, apparently... Just take a look at sales (and supply problems) Ram is facing with their new small diesel engines. And the others will be forced to follow. Even high-tech, superior Ford...

Yeah, the RAM had a surge in sales last month, even outsold the Silverado ( think it was only buy a few hundred if that). Say what you want about the ecoboost, but it has been very successful for Ford. All though it does kind of have quite a variance in real world MPG. Most of the people I know that have them are pleased and there are also those that are not happy with the MPG.

Pretty soon GM will need to offer something other than cylinder deactivation to lure some of those MPG minded buyers back.

[Grabber]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

No doubt. Accuracy prevails. As it should



Now you're accurate.



What would the LS9 make with similar revisions, equalizing it to the Trinity? MORE.

Seeing your point? Not really. You're discounting-eliminating a few important factors...

An engine is an AIR PUMP. Allow more air to pass through it, and it will, with fuel added and burned, make more power. No?

So YOU can discount "the number of valves, VVTC, V-Tec, etc.", but they happen to be prime contributors to what power an engine will ultimately make.

BTW, you left out "flow rate (cfm) @ max rpm" which is kinda important, too. No? And more valves generally allow more flow, and OHC generally revs higher with its attendant fewer moving parts. No?

LOWDOWN - Upon comparing that, the LS9 still has more displacement. 6.2L+2.3L Supercharger is .4L more than what hte GT500 has.

The LS9 is also running a 9:1:1 compression and makes 10.5 PSI. I am confident if the GT500 had equal cubes, compression (Higher compression cars make more power with less boost in F/I applications) the HP would be the same. Then again, the ZR1 puts down below 600 RWHP, whereas the GT500 makes over 600 RWHP stock.

Your original argument was comparing displacement vs. displacement and you mentioned that Ford has nothing that matches equally. However, it does. The trinity motor beats the LS3, LSA, etc. But, doesn't beat an LS9. If we are talking flagship motors, yes, the LS9 is better.

However, talking based on your original argument of things being equal, the Trinity motor beats out the comparable GM motors, aside from the LS9, LS7, etc.

[87GNX]

Originally Posted by Grabber

LOWDOWN - Upon comparing that, the LS9 still has more displacement. 6.2L+2.3L Supercharger is .4L more than what hte GT500 has.

The LS9 is also running a 9:1:1 compression and makes 10.5 PSI. I am confident if the GT500 had equal cubes, compression (Higher compression cars make more power with less boost in F/I applications) the HP would be the same. Then again, the ZR1 puts down below 600 RWHP, whereas the GT500 makes over 600 RWHP stock.

Your original argument was comparing displacement vs. displacement and you mentioned that Ford has nothing that matches equally. However, it does. The trinity motor beats the LS3, LSA, etc. But, doesn't beat an LS9. If we are talking flagship motors, yes, the LS9 is better.

However, talking based on your original argument of things being equal, the Trinity motor beats out the comparable GM motors, aside from the LS9, LS7, etc.

I would still rather have the trinity over the ls7 or 9...it's just pure badass and sounds better. Sure the other two can be modded further but so can the trinity. It's a unique engine. I really want to buy a used gt 500 lol

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by calebparkin3

That's what you just did by comparing GMs new gen 6.2 vs fords old 6.2.



Comparing the brand new 5.3 to the 4 year old 5.0 motor. The new 5.3 is on par to compete with the current 4 year old ford offering. When the 15 comes out with a refresed power train the 5.3 will be behind...again. I got 22MPG on the highway out of my 5.0 F150 so I don't see the 5.3 getting to much better than that.

the 5.3 is rated better than both the 5.0 and the ecoboost. looks like ford is behind, yet again. hell the 6.2 is rated basically the same as the EB but has WAY more power.

ford's engine development has always been quite poor. in 2011 they basically caught up from being WAY behind for years. it seems they just can't get their powertrains right.

[big hammer]

Originally Posted by Truck Norris

I have seen first hand a few GT500's have only 5% difference from SAE during a dyno day where all the other cars had the standard 15-20% loss. Most were SRA, with Tremec 6 speeds.

They were the old 2011-12 5.4L's with the tiny non-TVS blowers that were rated at 550hp and put down 521whp and 522whp at redline during the same dyno day a 2011 5.0L put down 365whp. There are countless other GT500's that have around 7% drive train loss as well.

So either they have lowest reported drive train loss of just about everything out there or these hand built mod motors are making more power then advertised.

I'm not trying to argue as I think the LS9 is one bad mofo of an engine, just disappointed when I see so many vids of them making 520-530whp from a engine that rated at 638hp

this is just an example of taking happy dyno's for gospel and then comparing them to average numbers from more conservative dyno's. the only way to truly compare is same dyno, same day.

plus if you want to compare performance numbers, well, the gt500 retains it's title of the highes hp, worst performing car in the world.

[Truck Norris]

Originally Posted by Truck Norris

They were the old 2011-12 5.4L's with the tiny non-TVS blowers that were rated at 550hp and put down 521whp and 522whp at redline during the same dyno day a 2011 5.0L put down 365whp.

Originally Posted by big hammer

this is just an example of taking happy dyno's for gospel and then comparing them to average numbers from more conservative dyno's. the only way to truly compare is same dyno, same day.

365whp from a 2011 5.0L doesn't seem like a "Happy Dyno" to me.

[1QwikZ28]

Originally Posted by big hammer

plus if you want to compare performance numbers, well, the gt500 retains it's title of the highes hp, worst performing car in the world.

So what does that make the ZL1???? Slowest 580+hp ever???

[khell86]

Originally Posted by big hammer

the 5.3 is rated better than both the 5.0 and the ecoboost. looks like ford is behind, yet again. hell the 6.2 is rated basically the same as the EB but has WAY more power.

ford's engine development has always been quite poor. in 2011 they basically caught up from being WAY behind for years. it seems they just can't get their powertrains right.

You do realize that GM's new 5.3 and Ford's 4 Year old 5.0 are within 5 HP and 3 TQ of each other right? Which means that it's still 40 lb/tq behind the ecoboost...

With Ford dropping the 6.2L, I bet we'll see a healthy bump to around 380hp and 400tq for the 5.0 and a healthier bump for the ecoboost. Especially if the ecoboost is expected to challenge GM's new 6.2L

[GretchenGotGrowl]

If the 2.7 Ecoboost sells like the 3.5 Ecoboost did, I think you will see Ford phase out the 5.0 in the F-150.

[shaffe]

Ford seem to know what they are doing with the F series (looking at sales numbers). If the 2.7 is as good as a lot of people like me hope it is, then Ford will have another huge success. The 2.7 has my interest peaked. I really want/need a truck for my next vehicle, but I don't need one that can tow 11K pounds. thats why the Ford 2.7 and GMC canyon are at the top of my list when the time comes. I am a truck buyer that will base my choice more on MPG than pure capabilities.

I doubt they would ever drop the 5.0 though, I think no matter how good the ecoboost engines are, there will be buyers who want a V-8 no matter what.

[HeavyIOM]

Originally Posted by big hammer

the 5.3 is rated better than both the 5.0 and the ecoboost. looks like ford is behind, yet again. hell the 6.2 is rated basically the same as the EB but has WAY more power.

ford's engine development has always been quite poor. in 2011 they basically caught up from being WAY behind for years. it seems they just can't get their powertrains right.

In MPGs. I'd give up a supposed mile or two for the added power the Ecoboost provides. How is ford behind yet again? For the last 4 year GMs trucks have been a joke campaired to the offerings from ford. Before that they were both on pretty even footing. GMs new lineup is now on equal footing with the current ford lineup. The exception being the new 6.2. Guess what though 2015 F150 is months away from hitting dealerships. If the rumors of weight savings are true that alone will top GMs MPGs rating. Not to mention the power trains are also going to receive some updates. So once again GMs trucks will be behind.

[LOWDOWN]

IF (caps and italics) a sensible discussion of a "what might be" engine in an unreleased car with "what might be" capabilities with "what might be" components is to evolve, why not compare it to a "what might be" Gen-6 Camaro with "what might be" engines like the LT1 and LT4 (and likely ONE more in between those numbers)? At least the LTs are "announced with specs" and, based on real world performance from the LT1 in the C7 Vette, I'm sure GM will do THEIR best to bring out a Gen-6 Z/28 that equals or exceeds their benchmark '14-'15 version.

The truly speculative question behind this thread's headline: Can Ford match it? Let alone beat it...

GM will...

...with a platform of which MUCH more is "known". Alpha. Pretty decent stuff to work with. And GENUINELY 2-300 lb. lighter.

The S550 is WHOLLY unknown. No version exists, extant. So it's TRULY speculative, at this point, exactly what Ford is going to bring. No one here has driven one...in ANY form.

As to comparing previous LS3s or LSAs or LS7s to "what might be" Fords, by the time those "what might be" Fords are on the road (especially as GT350s or whatever name Ford ultimately attaches to them), the "what might be" Camaros will be here, too...head-to-head. And the LS-family will be gone...

Que sera sera...whatever will be, will be...

The rest, at this point, is simply "trolling".

Hopefully, by Thursday, Ford will reward their legions of S550-seeking fans with a lift of the curtain and some ACTUAL information, missing from their pre-Christmas present.

[TheReaper]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Originally Posted by TheReaper

The new Mustang will destroy the Z28 and the Mustang will reign as the king of pony cars forever.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by TheReaper

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Destroy? No
Beat? Ehh
Match? Maybe