Clearing up some bad information on nitrous - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Graham@N · 05-24-2011, 02:45 PM

This is not to be rude or harsh. Just want to put out some black and white answers to help keep peoples parts safe and make more power.

PoorMansCamaro - I don't have a bottle heater, would that affect anything? Maybe the nitrous is too cold after a few sprays andaybe freezes up the jet, so more fuel is being dumped and not the right amount of nitrous?

The bottle heaters job is to ensure that you are spraying at the correct bottle pressure. The temperature of nitrous at the jet will always be substantially colder than in the bottle. The area at the jet is where the nitrous will expand and change phases from a liquid to a gas. This is where the huge drop in IAT comes from. This still however will not cause a jet to "freeze up". A full bottle will still have enough pressure (given reasonable temps) to spray without an issue on a pass or two.

jeff4946 - Hmm, well I dont know. Maybe the jets are in upside down. The pointed end actually points into the hose, not the nozzle. Maybe that would freeze the jet, not sure. I know first time I saw them I thought they had to be in there wrong, but they arent. Or you have a leak in a joint somewhere. Ya, get it to a performance shop, and have it looked over. Sorry your having trouble.

Jets can only be installed the correct way. Again a jet can not "freeze up".

usa1camaro1969 - Look how the special 2010+ Camaro nitrous bottle bracket is set up on Nitro Dave's website. I'm going to do something like that.
Sorry you're still having the issue. Have you thought of doing a datalog of a run and sending it to Vince to look at? I'd also pull the jets and look at them to make sure it's a good combo. Hdrs Jeff and Rod are all running Zex with great success. They'd be able to tell you if the jet combo is good or not. I know that at least originally they were sending jets that were fat on the fuel side(it helps it keep out of detonation without a tune, but may foul plugs).

Thank you for the support first off. Every system will be jetted rich to one degree or another. Simply no better way to do it on a somewhat "mass" scale. To many variances in cars and in the tune's NA wise to make a spot on nitrous jet pack that would fit all.

Jetting "rich" is a horrible way to stop detonation. One of the biggest advancements in tuning for nitrous is getting away from WAY rich and WAY overly timed tune ups. That is not safe. It may not hurt it on the first pass, but it is incorrect and can hurt parts.

I try to encourage plug reading even on smaller shots for several reasons. First and foremost, PLUGS ARE NEVER WRONG. Tuners can be wrong, nitrous "experts" can be wrong, I can be wrong, but the plugs will always tell the story. No one actually knows if the timing is correct or if the nitrous is distributing well if they are not reading the plugs.

bmorecam - for you all running with nitrous. Is purge kit really needed or is that more of a show off? It look like the window switch is a must tho or should I say safer to have.

The purge has two uses.

One is to clear the nitrous line of air. This will ensure that the first second or two of nitrous activation are not spraying just air.

The other is if your bottle pressure gets too high, the purge can bring it back down to a reasonable level.

It is not a requirement, but certianly nice to have. It does also look cool.

A window switch is a huge increase in safety over a system not using one. It will stop low rpm backfires by setting a reasonable MIN RPM to activate and also prevent spraying into the Rev limiter.

I would like for everyone to use a window switch or a progressive controller (It has a built in window switch function).

usa1camaro1969 -
As far as running a purge kit, you don't have to run a purge kit, but it will affect performance. It takes the liquid nitrous out of the line so you get it in a gas state which is better

You want liquid nitrous. You would lose a huge amount of power if you sprayed gaseous nitrous over liquid nitrous. It does not have near the density and also would lose the cooling effect from the phase change which happens when we spray liquid nitrous.

Duflar - Nitrous in racing perticularly Drag racing should be purged prior to staging. The main reason you inject nitrous into you engine is to lower the intake temp. lower temp= more dense the air being drawn into the cylinders. The more dense the air is the more fuel you can add to the mix. And we all know what more air/fuel gets you, HP. It's the transition from liquid to gas that lowers the intake temp. So you'll want to purge the gas from the lines prior to injecting. In drag racing you set the nitrous to come on at a certain rpm. If there is any nitrous gas in the line your HP gain will be delayed until the liquid reaches the jets. That delay could be enough to lose the race especially when you dial in the engine moments before the run depending on the air temp and humidity. I don't use nitrous myself but my brother uses it in his 67 camaro running in Outlaw 10.5. He's making 1350 HP on the nitrous. He weighs the bottle and puts it into a warm bath to keep it at 92 degrees. He installs the bottle only when they get the call to the line.

The main reason is the amount of oxygen present in the nitrous. The cooling effect from the phase change definitely adds power tho. The purge is to purge out actual air. Not Nitrous gas. The big reason to purge is the fact that the fuel will spray at the same rate. So if the nitrous is delayed then it will be very rich until the nitrous hits.

I hope some of this helps. Just trying to get some good information and discussion going. Lets hear it guys.

ROD1 · 05-24-2011, 03:05 PM

Good stuff, thanks. Ive been reluctant to purge due to the fact I haven't gotten my window switch working right. It shows in comparison in my 60ft. Purple wire front passenger side plug?

Graham@N · 05-24-2011, 03:16 PM

What does your purge have to do with the window switch?

I will have to double check on the v6 for tach signal.

PoorMansCamaro · 05-24-2011, 06:21 PM

Yeah, I believe it is the purple wire.

Thanks Graham for all the info. Wish you were closer to take a look at my car. The shop I went to for the install seems too busy for me to go back.

usa1camaro1969 · 05-24-2011, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham@Nitrousoutlet

Thank you for the support first off. Every system will be jetted rich to one degree or another. Simply no better way to do it on a somewhat "mass" scale. To many variances in cars and in the tune's NA wise to make a spot on nitrous jet pack that would fit all.

Jetting "rich" is a horrible way to stop detonation. One of the biggest advancements in tuning for nitrous is getting away from WAY rich and WAY overly timed tune ups. That is not safe. It may not hurt it on the first pass, but it is incorrect and can hurt parts.

I try to encourage plug reading even on smaller shots for several reasons. First and foremost, PLUGS ARE NEVER WRONG. Tuners can be wrong, nitrous "experts" can be wrong, I can be wrong, but the plugs will always tell the story. No one actually knows if the timing is correct or if the nitrous is distributing well if they are not reading the plugs.

I do agree that reading plugs will tell you whether you're running too lean/rich, but I will stand by my statement that the manufacturers of these kits are providing a fuel jet that is rich compared to the nitrous jet to limit their liability due to your statement regarding variables including the car's setup and tunes. I never stated it was the right way to prevent detonation. The companies producing the kits would rather be on the rich side than the lean side when they're sending out the jets and I believe that's what they supply.
I don't really understand the window switch hold-up either for the purge kit. I guess the initial hit will be softer, but I don't understand the window switch tie-in.
N2O is the chemical equation for nitrous oxide. The oxygen is what is allowing the extra fuel to be burned, somewhat like a supercharger/turbocharger. That is where the primary power increase is from. The cooling effect is an added bonus.

Can I run the car to you next Thursday or Friday? I'd like to bring the extra throttle body/intake manifold and discuss a few options, to include the bottle mount.

Graham@N · 05-25-2011, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by usa1camaro1969

I do agree that reading plugs will tell you whether you're running too lean/rich, but I will stand by my statement that the manufacturers of these kits are providing a fuel jet that is rich compared to the nitrous jet to limit their liability due to your statement regarding variables including the car's setup and tunes. I never stated it was the right way to prevent detonation. The companies producing the kits would rather be on the rich side than the lean side when they're sending out the jets and I believe that's what they supply.
I don't really understand the window switch hold-up either for the purge kit. I guess the initial hit will be softer, but I don't understand the window switch tie-in.
N2O is the chemical equation for nitrous oxide. The oxygen is what is allowing the extra fuel to be burned, somewhat like a supercharger/turbocharger. That is where the primary power increase is from. The cooling effect is an added bonus.

Can I run the car to you next Thursday or Friday? I'd like to bring the extra throttle body/intake manifold and discuss a few options, to include the bottle mount.

Sure. Either of those would work.

ROD1 · 05-25-2011, 04:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham@Nitrousoutlet

What does your purge have to do with the window switch?

I will have to double check on the v6 for tach signal.

Just figured the delay would help prevent damage at launch since I spray out of the hole.

Graham@N · 05-25-2011, 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROD1

Just figured the delay would help prevent damage at launch since I spray out of the hole.

No sir.

Lets get the window switch figured out. What window switch do you have? What all problems are you having?

ROD1 · 05-26-2011, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Graham@Nitrousoutlet

No sir.

Lets get the window switch figured out. What window switch do you have? What all problems are you having?

When we first tried it, we couldnt get a signal off any of the wires on fr pass cylinder. Prolly something we overlooked. I have Zex. The guy who installed it says he thinks he has it figured out but I havent had the time to meet up with him. Im having one of Tracy's TCs put in in a week or so so Ill have the guy putting it in straighten it out.

Graham@N · 05-26-2011, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROD1

When we first tried it, we couldnt get a signal off any of the wires on fr pass cylinder. Prolly something we overlooked. I have Zex. The guy who installed it says he thinks he has it figured out but I havent had the time to meet up with him. Im having one of Tracy's TCs put in in a week or so so Ill have the guy putting it in straighten it out.

Let me know what they get figured out. Interested to see what the issue was.

Ovenmitt · 05-26-2011, 07:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ROD1

When we first tried it, we couldnt get a signal off any of the wires on fr pass cylinder. Prolly something we overlooked. I have Zex. The guy who installed it says he thinks he has it figured out but I havent had the time to meet up with him. Im having one of Tracy's TCs put in in a week or so so Ill have the guy putting it in straighten it out.

I couldn't pull signal from any of my V8 coil wires, either. I ended up having to use a fuel injector wire. The caveat with this, is that you have to disable rev limiter by fuel cut, or if you ping the limiter, your window switch will go crazy because the car will cut signal to injector, and bad things will happen.

Sterling · 06-29-2011, 04:44 PM

I wanted to check out Nitrous Outlet, but you don't have a link to your site in your sig and I don't see you listed as a sponsor even though your name is green and it says you are a Silver level sponsor as your avitar. I guess I'll have to rely on Google...

Edit: Found you: http://nitrousoutlet.com/

Graham@N · 07-05-2011, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sterling

I wanted to check out Nitrous Outlet, but you don't have a link to your site in your sig and I don't see you listed as a sponsor even though your name is green and it says you are a Silver level sponsor as your avitar. I guess I'll have to rely on Google...

Edit: Found you: http://nitrousoutlet.com/

Sorry about that, I forgot to make the banner click able.

Let me know if you have any problems or need a some insight going over anything.

05-24-2011, 02:45 PM	#1
Graham@N Drives: Pontiac Firebird Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Waco, TX Posts: 154	Clearing up some bad information on nitrous This is not to be rude or harsh. Just want to put out some black and white answers to help keep peoples parts safe and make more power. PoorMansCamaro - I don't have a bottle heater, would that affect anything? Maybe the nitrous is too cold after a few sprays andaybe freezes up the jet, so more fuel is being dumped and not the right amount of nitrous? The bottle heaters job is to ensure that you are spraying at the correct bottle pressure. The temperature of nitrous at the jet will always be substantially colder than in the bottle. The area at the jet is where the nitrous will expand and change phases from a liquid to a gas. This is where the huge drop in IAT comes from. This still however will not cause a jet to "freeze up". A full bottle will still have enough pressure (given reasonable temps) to spray without an issue on a pass or two. jeff4946 - Hmm, well I dont know. Maybe the jets are in upside down. The pointed end actually points into the hose, not the nozzle. Maybe that would freeze the jet, not sure. I know first time I saw them I thought they had to be in there wrong, but they arent. Or you have a leak in a joint somewhere. Ya, get it to a performance shop, and have it looked over. Sorry your having trouble. Jets can only be installed the correct way. Again a jet can not "freeze up". usa1camaro1969 - Look how the special 2010+ Camaro nitrous bottle bracket is set up on Nitro Dave's website. I'm going to do something like that. Sorry you're still having the issue. Have you thought of doing a datalog of a run and sending it to Vince to look at? I'd also pull the jets and look at them to make sure it's a good combo. Hdrs Jeff and Rod are all running Zex with great success. They'd be able to tell you if the jet combo is good or not. I know that at least originally they were sending jets that were fat on the fuel side(it helps it keep out of detonation without a tune, but may foul plugs). Thank you for the support first off. Every system will be jetted rich to one degree or another. Simply no better way to do it on a somewhat "mass" scale. To many variances in cars and in the tune's NA wise to make a spot on nitrous jet pack that would fit all. Jetting "rich" is a horrible way to stop detonation. One of the biggest advancements in tuning for nitrous is getting away from WAY rich and WAY overly timed tune ups. That is not safe. It may not hurt it on the first pass, but it is incorrect and can hurt parts. I try to encourage plug reading even on smaller shots for several reasons. First and foremost, PLUGS ARE NEVER WRONG. Tuners can be wrong, nitrous "experts" can be wrong, I can be wrong, but the plugs will always tell the story. No one actually knows if the timing is correct or if the nitrous is distributing well if they are not reading the plugs. bmorecam - for you all running with nitrous. Is purge kit really needed or is that more of a show off? It look like the window switch is a must tho or should I say safer to have. The purge has two uses. One is to clear the nitrous line of air. This will ensure that the first second or two of nitrous activation are not spraying just air. The other is if your bottle pressure gets too high, the purge can bring it back down to a reasonable level. It is not a requirement, but certianly nice to have. It does also look cool. A window switch is a huge increase in safety over a system not using one. It will stop low rpm backfires by setting a reasonable MIN RPM to activate and also prevent spraying into the Rev limiter. I would like for everyone to use a window switch or a progressive controller (It has a built in window switch function). usa1camaro1969 - As far as running a purge kit, you don't have to run a purge kit, but it will affect performance. It takes the liquid nitrous out of the line so you get it in a gas state which is better You want liquid nitrous. You would lose a huge amount of power if you sprayed gaseous nitrous over liquid nitrous. It does not have near the density and also would lose the cooling effect from the phase change which happens when we spray liquid nitrous. Duflar - Nitrous in racing perticularly Drag racing should be purged prior to staging. The main reason you inject nitrous into you engine is to lower the intake temp. lower temp= more dense the air being drawn into the cylinders. The more dense the air is the more fuel you can add to the mix. And we all know what more air/fuel gets you, HP. It's the transition from liquid to gas that lowers the intake temp. So you'll want to purge the gas from the lines prior to injecting. In drag racing you set the nitrous to come on at a certain rpm. If there is any nitrous gas in the line your HP gain will be delayed until the liquid reaches the jets. That delay could be enough to lose the race especially when you dial in the engine moments before the run depending on the air temp and humidity. I don't use nitrous myself but my brother uses it in his 67 camaro running in Outlaw 10.5. He's making 1350 HP on the nitrous. He weighs the bottle and puts it into a warm bath to keep it at 92 degrees. He installs the bottle only when they get the call to the line. The main reason is the amount of oxygen present in the nitrous. The cooling effect from the phase change definitely adds power tho. The purge is to purge out actual air. Not Nitrous gas. The big reason to purge is the fact that the fuel will spray at the same rate. So if the nitrous is delayed then it will be very rich until the nitrous hits. I hope some of this helps. Just trying to get some good information and discussion going. Lets hear it guys.

05-24-2011, 06:21 PM	#4
PoorMansCamaro Drives: Really Slow Join Date: Apr 2010 Location: PA Posts: 56,955	Yeah, I believe it is the purple wire. Thanks Graham for all the info. Wish you were closer to take a look at my car. The shop I went to for the install seems too busy for me to go back. __________________

06-29-2011, 04:44 PM	#12
Sterling Drives: 2010 Camaro 1LT/RS M6 Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Fairhaven, MA Posts: 5,885 View My Garage	I wanted to check out Nitrous Outlet, but you don't have a link to your site in your sig and I don't see you listed as a sponsor even though your name is green and it says you are a Silver level sponsor as your avitar. I guess I'll have to rely on Google... Edit: Found you: http://nitrousoutlet.com/ __________________ Trifecta tune, Vararam Intake, VMAX throttle body and manifold insulator, RxPerformance Catch Can, , MRT v1.0 and Louvers, Barton shifter, BMR strut tower brace, RED dome light and Plasma LED DRL's, fieldgoal00's Halo 1 harness, hood spears/side stripes, rain guards, custom bowtie, Team LLT badges, headlight and foglight covers, taillight and side marker covers, backup light covers, WeatherTech floormats

Similar Threads
Thread	Thread Starter	Forum	Replies	Last Post
Tracking All Currently Known US VIN and Window Stickers - Order Tracking Thread	UCF w00t	Camaro Price \| Ordering \| Tracking \| Dealers Discussions	4242	02-17-2014 08:57 PM
Anybody Spray'n their SS yet - nitrous ?	WeeZee	Forced Induction - V8	37	12-29-2012 09:56 PM
Cheapest Nitrous Refills in South Florida	Erik@lashway	USA - Southeast	3	04-29-2011 04:57 AM
Nitrous System ?????s	PoleCat2SSRS2010	Forced Induction - V8	29	12-08-2010 05:55 PM
Thank you Nitrous Express!!!!!	Andrew@SPItuning	Forced Induction - V8	7	10-01-2010 09:35 AM

05-24-2011, 03:05 PM	#2
ROD1 Retired Drives: 2010 Camaro RS V6 #1301 DOB 3/23/09 Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Ithaca NY Posts: 2,563	Good stuff, thanks. Ive been reluctant to purge due to the fact I haven't gotten my window switch working right. It shows in comparison in my 60ft. Purple wire front passenger side plug?

05-24-2011, 03:16 PM	#3
Graham@N Drives: Pontiac Firebird Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Waco, TX Posts: 154	What does your purge have to do with the window switch? I will have to double check on the v6 for tach signal.