Flat plane crank in next gen hi po Mustang?

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

Most people look to the 458's mill (or similar engine) for a "sample" of what it may sound like. But what they may not think about is that they as mid-engined cars have a much shorter exhaust tract. Mustang equipped with a FPC will have a full vehicles length to "tune" the exhaust sound.

Think Jaguar, A-M, and Maserati.

Originally Posted by Bhobbs

I'm not a fan of the exhaust note from a flat plane crank but Voodoo is real, it shows Ford continues to try new things with its power plants where GM doesn't.

Ford once (and not that long ago) owned Jag and A-M. Development time for Ford would be reduced.

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

True. Another question is will Ford build "Voodoo" to run up to 9000rpm like the 458's 4.5L? Roadrunner, has already shown itself to be stable over 8000rpm. At red line, the 458 mill makes its 562hp and down at 6000 it makes its 398 ft lbs of tq.

Roadrunner made its 444hp@7400 and 380tq@4500. Bumping displacement a few tenths, switching to FPC, and perhaps DFI and not to forget, revving another grand and a half could/should yeild 600+hp and tick up the tq output to 410+ft lbs.

The inherent characteristics of Flat Plane Crank engines dictates less torque than traditional engines per equal displacement, be they OHC or not.

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

sounds like an expensive engine

Considering the 5.8 that has roots in the 5.4's of 15 years ago runs upwards of 25K...

I wouldn't want to take a guess as to the price of a crate Voodoo based engine.

I think it would be interesting to revisit all those "Z/28s cost waaaay too much" threads ganged on by Ford loyalists if/when the FPC Mustang appears. Special herbs 'n spices might be required to season the crow they'll be forced to eat.

By the way, 180 degree cranks are not new-tech to GM:

[1QwikZ28]

Ummm, that is not GM tech. That is aftermarket tech...

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by 72MachOne99GT

sounds like an expensive engine

Considering the 5.8 that has roots in the 5.4's of 15 years ago runs upwards of 25K...

I wouldn't want to take a guess as to the price of a crate Voodoo based engine.

It might not be as expensive as you'd think. Remember that "Voodoo" will still be based on Coyote just as Roadrunner was. RR had a lot of work done to it and was something like a $3500 premium over the Coyote, at least in crate form.

So, switching to PTWA liners (an easy 0.1L increase) and since there will be an all new crank design, incorporating a slight increase in stroke to get the other 0.1L needed to reach 5.2L, plus the improvements to handle 8500rpm redline (with a warranty), would by no means be "cheap" but I don't think we'll see it cost more than Trinity, close maybe...but not quite in excess of $20k would be my guess.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

Ford once (and not that long ago) owned Jag and A-M. Development time for Ford would be reduced.

True, but I would still be surprised to see GM mess with a flat plane crank.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

Originally Posted by 1QwikZ28

Ummm, that is not GM tech. That is aftermarket tech...

Ummm, you think GM Powertrain is unfamiliar with certain aftermarket developments?!

Like Ford is unfamiliar with Roush?

[crysalis_01]

I have to assume that IF Voodoo works out well for Ford, GM will not necessarily follow tit for tat. Just as Ford used Roadrunner in Boss, GM utilized LS7 for Z/28. That being a thing, I would imagine GM followers who love LS7 would hope Voodoo does "take off" as it may prompt a NA successor to the now defunct LS7. I only mention that because I know seeing a boosted LT4 taking the NA LS7's spot under the Z06's was a bit of a hit to some.

[KMPrenger]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

I have to assume that IF Voodoo works out well for Ford, GM will not necessarily follow tit for tat. Just as Ford used Roadrunner in Boss, GM utilized LS7 for Z/28. That being a thing, I would imagine GM followers who love LS7 would hope Voodoo does "take off" as it may prompt a NA successor to the now defunct LS7. I only mention that because I know seeing a boosted LT4 taking the NA LS7's spot under the Z06's was a bit of a hit to some.

There should be something between the 460HP LT1 and the 650+ HP LT4.

That said, for those who don't mind modding the LT1 will push past 500HP fairly easily it seems, but would be great to seem GM do a 525 to 550 HP n/a version of the LT1.

[crysalis_01]

Originally Posted by KMPrenger

There should be something between the 460HP LT1 and the 650+ HP LT4.

That said, for those who don't mind modding the LT1 will push past 500HP fairly easily it seems, but would be great to seem GM do a 525 to 550 HP n/a version of the LT1.

That seems logical. But would it be LT2? Would that be fitting an all new name? I understand the LSx distinction between 1,2,&3 was in part to displacement changes as well as overall age of each application. How much changes would necessitate a "new" LTx?

I guess a new set of heads and an intake could be all it would need. Isn't that all that separated LS1 from LS6? So, maybe that would be doable. Essentially, a factory HCI 550hp LT1 to make it a LT2 to fill the "gap" between LT1 and LT4.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by crysalis_01

That seems logical. But would it be LT2? Would that be fitting an all new name? I understand the LSx distinction between 1,2,&3 was in part to displacement changes as well as overall age of each application. How much changes would necessitate a "new" LTx?

I guess a new set of heads and an intake could be all it would need. Isn't that all that separated LS1 from LS6? So, maybe that would be doable. Essentially, a factory HCI 550hp LT1 to make it a LT2 to fill the "gap" between LT1 and LT4.

The LS6 had a new block, heads, cam, valves, heads and intake.

[87GNX]

GM is going to milk pushrod v8's until they no longer can, they sell and do the job so why change. Ford had to change and the gen 1 coyote is a smash hit, cant wait for a 500 hp n/a coyote..

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by 87GNX

GM is going to milk pushrod v8's until they no longer can, they sell and do the job so why change. Ford had to change and the gen 1 coyote is a smash hit, cant wait for a 500 hp n/a coyote..

More like GM uses push rod V8s for the packaging benefits of the cam in block design. Ford doesn't need to worry about the Mustang hood line like Chevy has to for the Corvette hood line.

[SEVEN-OH JOE]

As has been mentioned before, there are designations that fit between LT1 and LT4.

And no one has said the LT4 is the penultimate new-Gen SBC.

BTW, I included the LPE flat crank vid so 1) the Chev folks don't get all upset about the thoughts of Ford having something "extra-special", and 2) "been there, done that, gave the t-shirt away". No, that is NOT an active GM Powertrain program, but they ARE aware of it, and the tech obviously exists. For ALL. Not just Ford.

[Bhobbs]

Originally Posted by SEVEN-OH JOE

As has been mentioned before, there are designations that fit between LT1 and LT4.

And no one has said the LT4 is the penultimate new-Gen SBC.

BTW, I included the LPE flat crank vid so 1) the Chev folks don't get all upset about the thoughts of Ford having something "extra-special", and 2) "been there, done that, gave the t-shirt away". No, that is NOT an active GM Powertrain program, but they ARE aware of it, and the tech obviously exists. For ALL. Not just Ford.

It seems to me that the trend in GM is to consolidate all it's power trains to a few engines. I would be surprised to see any LTx engines come along.