06-12-2013, 02:15 PM | #29 | |
Drives: 16 Camaro SS, 15 Colorado Join Date: May 2009
Location: Jefferson City, Missouri
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2016 Camaro 1SS - 8-speed - NPP - Black bowties
2010 Camaro 1LT V6 (Sold. I will miss her!) |
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06-12-2013, 03:12 PM | #30 | ||
Drives: 2012 SIM 2LT/1970 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Near Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,578
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I am thoroughly convinced all of the oil in my manifold came in via the PCV system, and not via reversion (as I'm defining it).
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All bleeding stops eventually -- 2012 2LT Auto w/sunroof -- My journal thread
Roto-Fab Intake & W/W Relocate Kit -- ADM Race Scoop -- Dynomax VT Axle-Back Exhaust -- Vitesse Throttle Controller RX Catch Can -- Drake Bowtie Delete -- JacFab Radio Face Cover -- LED Fog Lights -- LED Dome/Trunk/Plate Lights -- Gen5DIY Dash ABL -- Diode Dynamics Cupholder Lighting Wishlist: ACS T5 Splitter -- Hood Vent Mod -- Footwell/Door Pull/Homelink Button Lighting |
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06-12-2013, 07:28 PM | #31 | |
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Drives: 2012 Camaro RS, RX supercharged Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bradenton, FL
Posts: 6,063
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Most are not aware that reversion is also why when a valve drops in one cylinder (or other part failure) you commonly see parts and damage in most others from the reversion pulse throwing pieces back and forth. On the exhaust ports on our big alky motors (.800 plus lift cam) we mill in antireversion grooves around each port to minimize the effect. It is also why if you have a vacuum gauge on your car at idle and deceleration you will see 18-22" plus of vacuum, but at WOT zero. Excellent observation, but it has no effect on valve coking as any measurable amount of fuel would actually reduce the coking issue (top tier fuels like Shell, etc. on a port injection engine keep valves looking like new for 100K plus miles where a DI engine has no fuel passing or touching the intake valves). Now, if you had a oil burner with wore out cylinder bores and rings you could see oil pushed back to the intake valves and the IM from reversion....but were talking relatively new engines on this forum, and the proof that adding a proper can like the RX, SM, or Elite when new, you find zero, or near zero deposits of any kind on the valves. The oil is easy to see where it originates from by just looking in any catchcan and seeing as it is installed inline from the crankcase to the intake manifold. If it stops the oil then no oil will be present in the intake manifold itself (easy to see with a LLT...remove the plenum). Remove the can and see it coat with oil again. |
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06-13-2013, 07:39 AM | #32 |
Drives: 2012 SIM 2LT/1970 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Near Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,578
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(And this is directed at me, as much as anybody else)
Seafoam treatment done yesterday. Lots of smoke, especially during the "spirited driving" afterward. It was embarrassing. Followed the method for the LLT (posted here), but had to modify it a bit during the Deep Creep/Seafoam Spray step, as the LFX doesn't have the port that the DIY shows being used in the "Optional 2" step. Will post pics later of what I did as a workaround. I did the full oil/gas/intake treatment, and will change oil probably tomorrow or the next day. Tear down number 2: probably Saturday. Will take pics. Also, going to investigate the layout of the IM a bit. I know it's got a divider between the two banks of intake runners, but I'm curious if it goes all the way to the back of the IM. If it's continuous from the TB to the rear of the IM, using the brake booster vacuum line to add Seafoam really probably only treats the driver's side bank of cylinders. If so, spraying the aerosol Seafoam from the front of the intake may be the only really effective way to clean the passenger side bank. UPDATE: Further discussion of the layout of the IM and the effectiveness of using Seafoam via the brake booster vacuum line can be found in this post. Oh, and I also sprayed my MAF sensor with some MAF cleaner while I was under the hood. Didn't look visibly dirty, but the electrodes are hard to see as they're contained in a housing with openings that aren't big enough for close inspection. More to come...
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All bleeding stops eventually -- 2012 2LT Auto w/sunroof -- My journal thread
Roto-Fab Intake & W/W Relocate Kit -- ADM Race Scoop -- Dynomax VT Axle-Back Exhaust -- Vitesse Throttle Controller RX Catch Can -- Drake Bowtie Delete -- JacFab Radio Face Cover -- LED Fog Lights -- LED Dome/Trunk/Plate Lights -- Gen5DIY Dash ABL -- Diode Dynamics Cupholder Lighting Wishlist: ACS T5 Splitter -- Hood Vent Mod -- Footwell/Door Pull/Homelink Button Lighting Last edited by 911medic; 06-22-2013 at 04:04 PM. |
06-13-2013, 09:27 AM | #33 |
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well, to combat this... I'm taking my own approach.
I'm adding a Snow Performance Stage 2 water/alch injection (MAF type). In addition, I'm adding a catch can. I like the RX check valve but I wish it had a neet-o multistage filter employing something like Elmer W. Bush's patent US 4089309 A or to a lesser degree the Mishimoto's 40 micron bronze filter. |
06-13-2013, 11:13 AM | #34 |
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Drives: Summit White 2010 2SS/RS M6 LS3 Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: East Coast
Posts: 296
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I seafoam all my cars but some validation would be nice so I know im not wasting my money and time.
Lets see some valve pics. |
06-13-2013, 05:58 PM | #35 | ||
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Drives: 2012 Camaro RS, RX supercharged Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Bradenton, FL
Posts: 6,063
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Quote:
The little bronze 40 micron filter is off of a $15 lowes home air compressor separator.....but this is by far their best offering to date, and it would only take a small amount of redesign to make it as (or even...ahem...cough...better than) the RX can...but at a cost of 2-3 times as much. The industrial applications for far more sophisticated versions have been in use for the past 30-40 years: http://www.alfalaval.com/solution-fi...g-modules.aspx Quote:
http://www.google.com/search?q=intake+valve+buildup&hl=en&tbm=isch&tbo=u &source=univ&sa=X&ei=K4U2UZufFI-W8gSW9oDQDg&sqi=2&ved=0CDIQsAQ&biw=2021&bih=875 Includes before and after seafoam (and similar) treatments and with and without some poor functioning catchcans/ |
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06-13-2013, 06:13 PM | #36 |
[COTW 4/13/15]
Drives: Supercharged LLT Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 5,957
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This is what my intake valves look like at 15,xxx....installed my CC at 12,xxx is that from burned oil and what not?...
Anyways i plan to do a Sea foam treatment but does anyone know where they sell a BG treatment instead? I'd rather use that than sea foam....
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06-13-2013, 11:35 PM | #37 |
Drives: 2012 SIM 2LT/1970 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Near Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,578
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If you can find it (and I don't know where), I believe the BG treatment requires a special kit/apparatus to use properly.
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All bleeding stops eventually -- 2012 2LT Auto w/sunroof -- My journal thread
Roto-Fab Intake & W/W Relocate Kit -- ADM Race Scoop -- Dynomax VT Axle-Back Exhaust -- Vitesse Throttle Controller RX Catch Can -- Drake Bowtie Delete -- JacFab Radio Face Cover -- LED Fog Lights -- LED Dome/Trunk/Plate Lights -- Gen5DIY Dash ABL -- Diode Dynamics Cupholder Lighting Wishlist: ACS T5 Splitter -- Hood Vent Mod -- Footwell/Door Pull/Homelink Button Lighting |
06-13-2013, 11:35 PM | #38 | |
Drives: '12 2LT Convertible Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Belmont, California
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
Turns out my dealer uses BG so I went with that after negotiating a price.
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06-13-2013, 11:48 PM | #39 | |
Drives: 2012 SIM 2LT/1970 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Near Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,578
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Quote:
As for the rest of what you wrote about how combustion by-products sticking to the valves may increase accumulation of the PCV crud, it certainly passes the common sense test for me. I have seen another article quoting a GM engineer stating this combustion "reversion" (as I'm calling it, right or wrong) as a source of the valve buildup, and other descriptions of manufacturers revising cam/valve timing in an attempt to mitigate the problem. But I can't deny what I saw (and photographed) in my own intake, and it was oily goo, not carbon from combustion, so I'm convinced the PCV system plays a role, too.
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All bleeding stops eventually -- 2012 2LT Auto w/sunroof -- My journal thread
Roto-Fab Intake & W/W Relocate Kit -- ADM Race Scoop -- Dynomax VT Axle-Back Exhaust -- Vitesse Throttle Controller RX Catch Can -- Drake Bowtie Delete -- JacFab Radio Face Cover -- LED Fog Lights -- LED Dome/Trunk/Plate Lights -- Gen5DIY Dash ABL -- Diode Dynamics Cupholder Lighting Wishlist: ACS T5 Splitter -- Hood Vent Mod -- Footwell/Door Pull/Homelink Button Lighting |
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06-14-2013, 12:13 AM | #40 |
Drives: 2012 SIM 2LT/1970 Camaro Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Near Minneapolis, MN
Posts: 1,578
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OK, so as I stated previously, I followed the LLT Seafoam DIY guide. Many thanks to it's author.
First, I dumped half a can in my cold crankcase: Then I slowly poured the other half into the brake booster vacuum line. It really helps to have a second person for this part to keep the RPMs up, as at idle RPM it's very easy to flood the engine and kill it. Several times. Ask me how I know! Next, I wanted to do the Seafoam spray with the engine running, but as I said before, the LFX doesn't have the port they show being used in the LLT DIY, so I had to improvise. First, I thought I could just use the included curved plastic guide and just slip it between the intake air tube and the throttle body, but the TB plate is so close to the top/front of the opening that I felt the guide and spray tube would actually make contact with it if it opened during the process. So, I started trying to figure out how else to route the spray tube into a position upstream of the TB where it could spray into the intake air stream, and came up with this: I wound up using the curved guide near the end of the spray tube, and pulled the spray tube back through the intake tube until it was routed within the intake tube roughly like this: This seemed to work pretty well, but there was a good coating of Seafoam in most of the intake air tube when I was done, and some pooling of Seafoam near the TB. This left an oily residue in the intake tube, which I'm not thrilled about, but short of removing the tube completely and simply spraying into the bare TB, I'm not sure what else to do. Again, it would have been nice to have an assistant for this step, as I killed my motor a couple of times during it due to low RPMs. Seafoam recommends spraying it in with the RPMs about 1000 above idle, BTW. Finally, I poured a full can in my gas tank and filled it up. Maybe not necessary, but WTF, I had a can so I went for the full Monty. So, lots of smoke later, it's done. Next we'll see if/how effective it was.
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All bleeding stops eventually -- 2012 2LT Auto w/sunroof -- My journal thread
Roto-Fab Intake & W/W Relocate Kit -- ADM Race Scoop -- Dynomax VT Axle-Back Exhaust -- Vitesse Throttle Controller RX Catch Can -- Drake Bowtie Delete -- JacFab Radio Face Cover -- LED Fog Lights -- LED Dome/Trunk/Plate Lights -- Gen5DIY Dash ABL -- Diode Dynamics Cupholder Lighting Wishlist: ACS T5 Splitter -- Hood Vent Mod -- Footwell/Door Pull/Homelink Button Lighting |
06-14-2013, 12:16 AM | #41 |
Drives: 2012 Camaro 2SS 45th Anniversary Ed Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 2,220
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2012 Camaro 2SS 45th Anniversary Edition - No longer owned: 2010 Camaro 2LT, 1993 Camaro Z-28
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06-14-2013, 08:53 AM | #42 | |
Drives: '12 2LT Convertible Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Belmont, California
Posts: 1,701
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Quote:
In retrospect I think a simpler (and less accurate) test would be to take a small amount of the wet valve area buildup and compare it with a similar small amount of oil from the catch can. A color analysis of the two samples might answer the question IF there is a noticeable difference.
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