'67 with a M22.....Legit???

[blazzin1]

Was the Muncie M-22 an available option in a '67 SS 396/375hp (L78) Camaro? I have a guy selling one close-by and he says the M-22 is original to the car. I can't seem to find any evidence that the M-22 was available in a Camaro in 1967. I did find the M-21, but nothing about the M-22. Need clarification please!!! I know it was available in '68 & '69, but not sure about '67.

[AZCamaroFan]

yeah , the only info I found said it was available 68-on.

[blazzin1]

Thanks, that's pretty much what I found too. I just wanted to confirm with you guys!!!

So, either he has a M-21 (and thinks it's an M-22), or it has a non-original M-22. I haven't seen the car yet, so I haven't had a chance to confirm the numbers on it.

[family man]

I would ask over on www.teamcamaro.com/forums

They are first gen experts over there and should be able to help you.

[blazzin1]

Waiting for MLL67RSSS....he'll know!!!

[MLL67RSSS]

Sorry just saw the PM/post link. I'll let you in on my secret, credit where credit due:

Camaro Research Group www.camaros.org

If you go the the options link from the box up top there is a link on the page to a PDF Options Spreadsheet that I refer to often.

Scanning down to Transmissions/M-22 you'll see that they were not available in '67 at all, they were a $295 option in '68 with 1277 sold, and $305 in '69 with 2117 sold, and that the M-22 was only available with the 302 Z/28 and L-78 big blocks.

EDIT: HOWEVER I should add that in automotive assembly lines you can never really say never. They "never " put a L-34 350 HP 396 in first gen Camaros, but we've found a '67 pace car that is numbers matching and appears to be a factory installed L-34 (though some "experts" disagree). In the assembly manual there are canceled pages indicating they did plan on doing it at one time. Sometimes the only way to see if something is production feasible is to run one down the line to see what issues there might be. Or sometimes some big-wig can get something put on his car that normally wouldn't be available (a.k.a. "Brass hat" cars). Also at the VERY END of the model year sometimes a '68 part might appear on a '67 if they ran out of '67 parts, OR a '67 part may be put on a '68 until the '67 stuff is gone. Maybe before they started the '68 model run they built one '67 to test the line and see what issues there might be.
So all-in-all it would come down to documentation, documentation, DOCUMENTATION!!! If there is some iron clad documentation, order sheet, build sheet, dealer paper work, etc. then it's for real, other wise it's a HUGE question mark that "experts" will never accept as real even if it could be.
Does he have any documentation, POP (Protecto-plate) or anything? How does he know it is original to the car?

[MLL67RSSS]

I'll expound and bore you some more.

There is only ONE steadfast rule, "THE LINE SHALL NOT STOP, EVER!!!"

Original unrestored cars have had points taken off for non-correct "hardware store" bolts. There are stories by line workers that if they ran out of a certain bolt they sent worker(s) out to area hardware stores and buy out their stocks of that size bolt. Do you really think they'd shut down an entire assembly line because they were missing one 15 cent bolt and wait for the vendor to deliver more?
You can never say never...

[blazzin1]

Thanks for the confirmation, I appreciate your help. That is quite the .pdf spreadsheet. There's a ton of great information on there!!!

I guess I need to go look at this car that is for sale. The seller was pretty "vague" in his description on the ad. He didn't even mention what engine was in it. But he said it was "numbers matching", and has the "original" M-22 in it, and he said he has the "original" Holley Carb, which (if true) would lead me to believe it was a L78 car!!!! Or, maybe he's just full of crap and has no idea what he has!!! I've gotta go take a look myself, and see what the hell he has. I'll keep y'all updated.

[flyingskibiker]

Look for a K in the 4 group on the Trim Tag for a 396/375.

The VIN will be on the M2? if it is original. Though, not all '67s had them... One can also tell if it is a M22 transmission from a few visual clues. But as to whether it is original to the car if it is a M22, you already have your answer...

[MLL67RSSS]

Only started putting the "K" on the trim tag/cowl tag ("N" for 325HP/396) around late March,early April. If it was built before that it won't have it. Production had been going for about 3 months before the big blocks were added to the option list. Once they started putting them it it took a little while for the other processes to catch up. (My car was built first week of April and did get the "N" on the trim tag).
Also no partial VIN on the transmission, only on the engine block. Only way to know if it is original is to have the protecto-plate or some other documentation that has the transmission number/code and see if it matches what is stamped on the transmission.

EDIT: BTW there are great links on the CRG site for decoding POP's and cowl tags.

[MLL67RSSS]

From CRG site:

To distinguish an early (pre-suffux[before 21-OCT-68]) M22 from the other Muncies when the transmission is on a car, note that all M22s had the lower, forward, passenger-side maincase boss drilled and tapped for a magnetic drain plug. This wasn't done (by the factory) for M20/M21 until 1970. While this boss could be drilled for a plug on a M20 after it left the factory - if the boss is undrilled, then the case definitely was not part of a M22.

Also decoding:
http://www.camaros.org/drivetrain.sh...missionNumbers

For the additional drain they refer to looks like it would be where the arrow is.