Camaro SS Questions. 500-600hp possible on stock internals?

[speedster]

Cool stuff Gone... I didn't know about the tires/traction and rpm. There are a lot of car guys that talk about hp just to talk. You obviously are NOT one of those types. If you don't mind yanking the motor, here is something else to consider. Hope you have fun no matter what.

To get an LS3 to support 800 crank hp is pretty cheap, but you have to be willing to yank the engine. Change the pistons to a JE (or comparable) forged in the 8.0 to 8.8 range (your preference) and change the rods to Callies Compstar (or comparable). Put it back together and add the boost of your choice. The crank is cast (nodular iron), but like a Scat 9000 undercut and with fillets. Not forged, but tougher than people think. The LS3 is a 6 bolt aluminum block, with 4 bolts per cylinder clamping so past 800 hp, they may "leak" without O-ringing. In addition, pushing it past this level you may run into problems of spliting the sleeves and the material behind the sleeves.

[Mythic]

From GMPP-
LS3 6.2L Tech Specs Part Number: 1920199
Balanced: Internal
Block Part Number: 12584727
Block Type: Cast aluminum with 6-bolt main caps
Bore x stroke (in): 4.06 x 3.62 (103.25 x 92mm)
Camshaft duration (@.050 in): 204 degree intake / 211 degree exhaust
Camshaft Part Number: 12603844
Camshaft Type: Hydraulic roller
Compression ratio: 10.7:1
Connecting rods (P/N 12617570): Powdered metal
Crankshaft (P/N 12597569): Nodular iron
Cylinder heads (P/N 12598594): LS3 rectangle port; as cast with 68cc chambers
Displacement (cu in): 376 cu in (6.2L)
Engine type: LS Series Gen IV small-block V-8
Maximum recommended rpm: 6600
Pistons Part Number: 19165089
Pistons Type: Hypereutectic aluminum
Recommended fuel: 92 octane
Reluctor wheel: 58X
Rocker arm ratio: 1.7:1
Rocker arms exhaust Part Number: 10214664
Rocker arms exhaust Type: Investment cast, roller trunnion
Rocker arms intake Part Number: 12569167
Rocker arms intake Type: Investment cast, roller trunnion
Valve Lift (in): .551 intake / .522 exhaust
Valve size (in): 2.16 intake / 1.59 exhaust

I believe somewhere on this board Scott said the Rear End has been tested to 600ft-lb of torque

[UsedTaHaveA68]

Originally Posted by Gone

Ok some good info but UTHA68 I am not seeing what the piston material is listed in that spec sheet? But your saying for 100% sure they are cast and not forged?

Pistons
The LS9 is the only production LS engine with forged aluminum pistons; all the
other engines use hypereutectic (cast) aluminum alloy pistons—varied mostly
by diameter to accommodate various bore sizes. LS cast pistons shouldn’t
be used on applications greater than approximately 550 horsepower. The LS7
piston’s inner bracing and larger pin diameter require the use of the matching
LS7 connecting rod.

Straight from the GMPP Catalog. There you go. I wouldn't expect the internals to last long if you go much above that. And for stock parts, that's pretty impressive, IMHO.

Edit: http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_r...09_Catalog.pdf Page 191 of the book, page 97 as the .pdf file.

[Gone]

Originally Posted by speedster

Cool stuff Gone... I didn't know about the tires/traction and rpm. There are a lot of car guys that talk about hp just to talk. You obviously are NOT one of those types. If you don't mind yanking the motor, here is something else to consider. Hope you have fun no matter what.

To get an LS3 to support 800 crank hp is pretty cheap, but you have to be willing to yank the engine. Change the pistons to a JE (or comparable) forged in the 8.0 to 8.8 range (your preference) and change the rods to Callies Compstar (or comparable). Put it back together and add the boost of your choice. The crank is cast (nodular iron), but like a Scat 9000 undercut and with fillets. Not forged, but tougher than people think. The LS3 is a 6 bolt aluminum block, with 4 bolts per cylinder clamping so past 800 hp, they may "leak" without O-ringing. In addition, pushing it past this level you may run into problems of spliting the sleeves and the material behind the sleeves.

Thanks

What I am trying to see if I bought a Camaro SS could I just add a TS SC (motor wise) and with what sounds like a nice motor & ci wise plus a very decent trans and if I could make around min 550rwhp-600rwhp on the stock motor with some decent longevity. I would want to go solid mid 10's on this setup if the above was possible w/ DR's and few susp upgrades. I do not want to lose to any aftermarket sc newer Mustangs GT's on the street( or stock z06's) either. I would want to be able to beat them 95% (sc stangs) of the time them or stay door to door on the street the other 5% which imo would be fun. I do not want to yank the motor to rebuild i just want to add a TS screw to the stock motor with decent longevity. If the above would be possible on a stock motor I would seriuosly consider getting a Camaro SS.

[Gone]

Originally Posted by UsedTaHaveA68

Pistons
The LS9 is the only production LS engine with forged aluminum pistons; all the
other engines use hypereutectic (cast) aluminum alloy pistons—varied mostly
by diameter to accommodate various bore sizes. LS cast pistons shouldn’t
be used on applications greater than approximately 550 horsepower. The LS7
piston’s inner bracing and larger pin diameter require the use of the matching
LS7 connecting rod.

Straight from the GMPP Catalog. There you go. I wouldn't expect the internals to last long if you go much above that. And for stock parts, that's pretty impressive, IMHO.

Edit: http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_r...09_Catalog.pdf Page 191 of the book, page 97 as the .pdf file.

UTHA68 oh man I have to run out now but when I get back I am going to have look at you link and do some research that looks promising if true then the next weak link might be the powder rods but they might hold decent enough depending on accouple things. Hmm things are looking up for possible 550rwhp on a stock motor in decent safe range aleast or maybe? By any chance anyone have or know of any pictures on the net (link) of the rods and side view of the piston in this motor I'd like to look at the landings on the piston esp the top one?

[UsedTaHaveA68]

Originally Posted by Gone

Thanks

What I am trying to see if I bought a Camaro SS could I just add a TS SC (motor wise) and with what sounds like a nice motor & ci wise plus a very decent trans and if I could make around min 550rwhp-600rwhp on the stock motor with some decent longevity. I would want to go solid mid 10's on this setup if the above was possible w/ DR's and few susp upgrades. I do not want to lose to any aftermarket sc newer Mustangs GT's on the street( or stock z06's) either. I would want to be able to beat them 95% (sc stangs) of the time them or stay door to door on the street the other 5% which imo would be fun. I do not want to yank the motor to rebuild i just want to add a TS screw to the stock motor with decent longevity. If the above would be possible on a stock motor I would seriuosly consider getting a Camaro SS.

These engines are not built for forced induction. You're wanting this engine to make 175-225 hp more than stock. I think that's asking a bit much. Yes, a twin screw can make that much, but it's going to require more boost than that stock engine would take. I guess you could use 110 octane racing fuel to prevent detonation, but then you're looking at blown head gaskets from the extra cylinder pressures.

Ford GT 500's have forged internals and a low compression ratio, specifically to handle the boost pressures from the supercharger. If you're wanting any kind of longevity from a supercharged LS3 engine that's making 650 horsepower, it's going to need to be built. That's just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.

[UsedTaHaveA68]

Excellent read:
http://www.camarohomepage.com/ls3/index.htm

[Gone]

Originally Posted by UsedTaHaveA68

These engines are not built for forced induction. You're wanting this engine to make 175-225 hp more than stock. I think that's asking a bit much. Yes, a twin screw can make that much, but it's going to require more boost than that stock engine would take. I guess you could use 110 octane racing fuel to prevent detonation, but then you're looking at blown head gaskets from the extra cylinder pressures.

Ford GT 500's have forged internals and a low compression ratio, specifically to handle the boost pressures from the supercharger. If you're wanting any kind of longevity from a supercharged LS3 engine that's making 650 horsepower, it's going to need to be built. That's just my opinion, take it for what it's worth.

Yes agreed the 10.7 cr (high) is what is a road block for running a sc at 13-15 psi. But you can drop the psi on the TS SC to around 6-10 psi have to look for the sweet spot and should not be a problem on this motor if the stock piston & rods are decent and might result in making around 550rwhp with decent longevity. I have seen many sc Mustang GT's with stock motor w/9.8cr running 12psi since 05 and quite a few running 15psi with some decent longvity.

So it is possible to run a sc on this motor with 10.7 cr just have to run a lower psi sc pulley due to the SS cr for decent longevity. I am just a sc person love running ts sc's and find it the simplest way to get decent power and have a fast car..

[Gone]

Originally Posted by UsedTaHaveA68

Excellent read:
http://www.camarohomepage.com/ls3/index.htm

You are the man!!

I will be back later today (leaving now) to do some research will post my opinion and listen what you guys think or have to say.

[pharmd]

Turbo Thread see post #5 and click on the associated links...

530rwhp was just achieved on a G8 GXP on 6psi with TT kit.

[UsedTaHaveA68]

Originally Posted by pharmd

Turbo Thread see post #5 and click on the associated links...

530rwhp was just achieved on a G8 GXP on 6psi with TT kit.

Turbos are much more efficient. I would be very surprised to see that much horsepower out of 6psi with a supercharger. More like 500 if everything else is stock. The OP was talking about over 10psi, which I don't think is doable on stock internals. Not for long anyway.

But MAN that G8 is SWEEEEEEET.

[Gone]

Originally Posted by UsedTaHaveA68

Pistons
The LS9 is the only production LS engine with forged aluminum pistons; all the
other engines use hypereutectic (cast) aluminum alloy pistons—varied mostly
by diameter to accommodate various bore sizes. LS cast pistons shouldn’t
be used on applications greater than approximately 550 horsepower. The LS7
piston’s inner bracing and larger pin diameter require the use of the matching
LS7 connecting rod.

Straight from the GMPP Catalog. There you go. I wouldn't expect the internals to last long if you go much above that. And for stock parts, that's pretty impressive, IMHO.

Edit: http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_r...09_Catalog.pdf Page 191 of the book, page 97 as the .pdf file.

Thanks for posting so looks like this is the real deal on the pistons (forged alum) which is good news and the specs sheets are incorrect that state hyper cast!

On going for higher HP over 550hp (475rwhp) per thier rating they can't recommend going above 550hp/475rwhp because they know its not going to last thier expected number of years or miles if you know what I am saying. When going FI we know that is not going to happen and of course the risk goes up like on any stock motor when you go FI on a stock motor and push for high RWHP & RWTQ. But doesn't mean you can't go to 550-600rwhp if the internals are decent just don't expect it to last 100K + or 10 years . Hopefully get maybe 3-5 years or longer if just a street car and part time track car 3-5 times a year. If it blows within 3-5 years no problem didn't expect it to last like a stock motor have to rebuild at that time or maybe you decide to get another car and sell the car before any motor damage which I have done in the past on sc cars running a stock motor. Yes agree with you the parts look good from your link for a stock motor also the block improvents you linked are also very good imo.



Saw this also on the rods

LS connecting rods are very similar and mostly interchangeable. Most are made
of powdered metal, while the LS7 and LS9 rods are forged titanium. Rods
lengths are similar, too, at 6.098-inch for 5.3L, 5.7L, 6.0L and 6.2L engines. The
4.8L engine uses 6.275-inch rods and the LS7 uses 6.067-inch rods. Since 2006,
LS rods use bushed small ends. Also, LS6 rods bolts (P/N 11600158) offer a
strength-enhancing upgrade to pre-2000 engines. Finally, the LS7 and LS9 rods
have a slightly different size than other LS rods, requiring a unique bearing

[Gone]

Originally Posted by UsedTaHaveA68

Excellent read:
http://www.camarohomepage.com/ls3/index.htm

Yes this was a very good read a lot of good improvements they made would no doubt benifit if going with an after market sc also!!

[Gone]

Originally Posted by pharmd

Turbo Thread see post #5 and click on the associated links...

530rwhp was just achieved on a G8 GXP on 6psi with TT kit.

For some reason this page is not coming up for me will try later but thanks.