ALERT: Lutz mentions engine options for Camaro -- 4 cylinder turbo a possibility!

[The_Stache]

Originally Posted by CaptianSam

mustangs new v8 will be over 340 hp apparently ... and no... the twin turbo v6 will be a new model replacing the v8 however...4.6 and 5.4 will be made for shelby mustangs
and shelby gt mustangs are fairly common...
340 < L76 <new r/t...uh oh 340< L76<new r/t< srt8... not even mentioning shelby models...*faints*...

Sigh..... I love correcting misinformation...

/sarcasm off

- The L76 in the G8 GT puts out 368 HP..
- The Twin Turbo V6 won't go into the mustang untill 2011 at the earliest.
- The HP level for the 09 4.6 isn't released guesses are between 30 and 50 hp boost, remember the bullit ups the level to 315, so thats something like 345 to 365 for the Mustang GT
- The new 5.7 is going to get 370 HP for 09+ models (300, charger, challenger)

I'm not even going to touch the Shelby part of your post...

[CedarHillCamaro]

Originally Posted by blindingillusion

I just want to know the lineup, as long as they got my 400+ 8 in there I am cool.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Weeeeeeeeeeeeellllll Now......what do we have here....

I definitely just read through 8 full pages of non-stop bitching with the occational injection of sanity. And now I'm more than a little ticked off - that all these good people I've come to know and like on this site - suddenly turn into a bunch of whiney little...*sigh*. Okay...here goes.

First off: KNOCK OFF THE NAME CALLING. I *HATE* it when my finger has to hover over the delete key.

Secondly...I hold NO grudges or ill will towards any of you(well, except for maybe Mindz, due to his use of the word "poop") - so don't let any of what you're about to read come off as personal attacks. They are NOT.

Thirdly. I had to read through all that...you're all gonna read through all this. So there, Ha! (of course, I didn't quote everyone I'd have liked to...or this really would be long...........)

Originally Posted by z2809

I personally think that GM WILL increase the price somewhat dramatically, to try to further separate the Camaro and Stang, like say $25k for a 6-cyl, and over $30 for a v-8.

That makes 0 sense. And you know that:

Originally Posted by z2809

This will KILL the whole concept....so if the price is increased this much, it will mean the end again.

Don't think that the guys at GM are brain dead. They DID choose to build this thing. (3 year-old joke...anyone get it?)

Originally Posted by decodethis

But honestly I think the GM's leadership has lost its touch to the Camaro buying audience. Isn't that what happened in 2002?

No. That's not what happened in 2002....well, maybe a little - I don't know the full story - since I wasn't there. But there were a number of factors that streched far from simply the head-hanchos at GM suddenly wanting to kill off the Camaro. And, if memory serves, Scott (Fbodfather) served a vital role in keeping that car alive for 4 more years. The program was actually cancelled in 1998.

And that is NOT what's happening now. Rick Wagoner, Bob Lutz, Ed Welburn, Scott Settlemire, Cheryl Pilcher, Tom Peters. I could rattle them off all day. From the 'top' to the 'bottom' GM is totally behind this car unlike any other. You'd be surprised just how much the execs at GM like the Camaro.
They may be more in touch than ever. And you are seeing it unfold before you. Hence the 4 banger idea. (yeah, that's right - they're thinking about it)

Originally Posted by Dan

No thats the Cobalt SS' job...

Anyone else think its strange that Peper told us that the v6 would be 300+ and Lutz is saying that the v6 will only be 260?? Hell even that engine in the transverse crossover is 283, I don't see how Lutz can be right about the output of the 3.6 in the Camaro.

As stated before...I do believe the author made an error in conveying his message.

Originally Posted by TheMadHatter99

I for one have faith in GM. They're a business after all and thus their primary goal at the end of the day is to make the largest profit possible. You do that by offering the best vehicle possible, so I wouldn't worry too terribly much. Even if they do offer a 4-banger entry-level option, so what? We'll all get the V6 or V8 and we'll have a lot of teenagers and mom's-in-mid-life-crisis driving around in the I4's. If anything we gain new "comrades" and keep these potential "ricers" from purchasing foreign cars.

We get our V8's/V6's, GM gets to sell more cars, foreign automakers lose business.

We win, GM wins, and American automakers all-around win.

Friggin' Thank God!!! One of those sanity injections!!

Originally Posted by Black5thgen

You guys are rediculous. Has everyone forgot about the 4 cylinder camaro's of the 80's. It didn't disgrace the car's rep then, why will it now. In the 80's we were getting over the gas crunch and the ecomony sucked (just like today) and the I4 only lasted a few years. I think a 4 is a great idea. It will help with the fleet mpg's and lower the price for non-enthusiasts. WE ARE STILL GETTING THE V8, whats the big deal. Yeah, maybe ricers will buy the I-4 turbo, but that means more sales insuring the future of the camaro. The more people this car appeals to the better. The camaro has to adapt and evolve to survive. Let's not forget that the car went on hiautus because it didn't evolve.

Injection number 2!!

Originally Posted by CaptianSam

WE CAN STILL BUY THE V8 SO EVERYBODY RELAX... its good to know that the v8 will get AFM hopefully this AFM will cover the charges from PREMIUM PRICING... ill pay a little more for the savings will go towards gas...

I don't think that the AFM will have that profound of an effect. BUT, lets take a moment and look at the word Premium. Where have you heard it before?
"charging a premium"
"Premium fuel"...nope, never mind that one.
"premium product"

All it really means is "more". And we all knew that. So relax Bob has told us nothing new. But there are some who believed that Camaro will be less expensive than a Mustang. Because such people don't understand that when a PREMIUM product is compared to an inferior one...a couple more buck seems worth it. Such will be the case with Camaro. It won't be thousands, and thousands of dollars more. It will most likely fall between $1000, and $2000 more. Probably less. Don't read too much into that word. It was a bad choice of words on Bob's part, imho. But then again - who knew we'd all react like this to a simple 7-letter word.

Originally Posted by SSOOCH

Bob Putz! Pull your head out! WTF, who wants a 4 cyclinder camaro? Is it going to come with a Berlinetta badge? Jesus, I've been life long Chevrolet Fanboy, and have been eager awaiting a new Camaro.

That can be as bad as you might think it good.

And I'll ask you to not be so rude to Bob Lutz. He is, after all, one of the main reasons the Camaro's coming back at all.

Originally Posted by SSOOCH

But I seriously don't know if I can buy even an SS model knowing that there is a version of my bad ass car with a 4 cyl somewhere.

There is your problem. Pure and simple. How does that make an impact AT ALL in your driving of your V8 Camaro??? It doesn't. No. Let me resay that - it does. But only in a good way. The folks that buy up a 4 cyllinder Camaro will be assisting you in your purchase of the V8 model by keeping the price down for you.
GM could have easily said screw it and pulled a challenger: You get mediocre performance for an insanely high price. Nope. They took the smart route.

Originally Posted by SSOOCH

I just think it waters down the essence of a Camaro. Hell even the V6 does that. Please, please rethink this.

Yeah, wow. This one I think I could go on forever about. Was the '69 Z28s, or the SSs of that same era any less of a monster because they also offered a v6? um....no. Why is that the case now?

Originally Posted by jaymz

I can tell you this: I WILL NOT BE BUYING A FREAKING 4 CYL TURBO!!!!!
I sold my POS jetta that had that stupid 4 cyl turbo.
No Thank You!!!

Well...then don't nobody's forcing you to. So I guess that ends that problem, huh?

Originally Posted by DGOETZ

The 2002 SS Hardtop, was just under $30,000 so the new car will be more than that.

I was not aware of that. According to many pricing guides I can look up if you wish...the Z28 came in around 22-23k dollars, and the SS package didn't bring the price to nearly 30k....Id be interested in knowing where you got that number from. Not calling you out - I'm curious.

Originally Posted by DGOETZ

Price a Pontiac G8 with a V8 and see what you come up with...I think you'll find it's more than $30,000...same platform as the new Camaro. The Impala SS is also in that 30k range as well.

Actually, the G8 GT comes in just a hair under 30 thousand. Well equipped enough to please anybody on these boards. FULLY equipped - will bring you to just under 33k. Same platform as the new Camaro. AND it's a Pontiac - which is usually more expensive than an equivilant Chevy.

Originally Posted by MCPOAJ

This is how i see it
.........
SS/Z-28: LS2 and don't deny it he said 400 hp V-8 WITH A CUTOFF

...wow we sure have a mustang fighter on our hands...

I'm sorry. Have you been living under a rock for the past 2 years? They aren't making the LS2 anymore!!! I mean, they are...but it's going away - and it's being replaced with the LS3. So...yes - I deny it.

Engine outputs are NOT set in stone. plug it into a computer and you can vary it from 20-30 hp either way - easy. This is most likely a new Gev IV variant. Not a new engine, but a variation on one already in existance.

Actually - I do think we have a Mustang fighter on our hands. Moreso - I think we've got a Care that will take on all Challengers, and killa Mustang or two in the process.

Originally Posted by mega_man_01103

i tell you brother for a young guy, you sure know how to make a good point!!!!

I thank you very much, Mega Man.

Originally Posted by Jay

On one hand you guys and FBodFather talk about tradition and joy of owning a Camaro..... well that all just went down the drain. How proud could you possibly be of having a 4 cylinder 'muscle car'?

I think you're missing the point. It's not about the engine. It's not about the performance. But about the pride in the craftsmanship - the the dependability. In the fact that you drive a CAMARO. which is more than anybody else on the road - ANYWHERE can say.

I don't forsee any I4 owners finding it hard to be proud of their vehicle. Obviously, you're not in the market for a 4...so how is it an insult. Many more people may be reached by this move - spread the love, man...

Originally Posted by Jay

I mean are you joking me with all this. And whats the premium pricing all of a sudden? What happened to competitive. I think everyone agrees that paying more for the Camaro is viable given its a better product....but the idea is to be 'competitive' not premium......

Again. Premium does not automatically mean astronomical pricing...but, I've already touched on that above.

Originally Posted by Jay

I suppose im done "having the faith'..... another couple months if there is no real concrete info I think im just gunna have to buy a base line vette or more likely a mustang gt or saleen i guess. I mean i dont wanna pay 40 grand plus for a 400 horse Camaro.

Its a sad day today.

I'm truly sorry for your loss then. The Camaro will be a car that you look back on and say, 'damn, I wish I grabbed one of those'.

[Mr. Wyndham]

Originally Posted by Jose_The_Great_Cuervo

lol

I think what is pissing people off is the BASE price of the v-8. I'm pretty sure everyone's had it in their mind that it WILL be under 30k but this "Premium" crap is pissing everyone off.

GM, JUST LIE TO US. I WAS HAPPIER BELIEVING I WOULD BE ABLE TO AFFORD IT!!!!!

See above. GM has no reason to lie. And since they don't know pricing for sure, yet themsleves...I hardly think it would be appropriate.

Originally Posted by AirGoya

The word PREMIUM doesnt mean anything.
So what, they used the wrong word
He is just saying it will cost more than the mustang but you will get more for it.

Thank YOU!

Originally Posted by flaguy

Last week I was under the impression that the Camaro will be priced with the Mustang, that the V6 will have 300hp, that a turbo was going into the cobalt. Today I find the Camaro will cost more, excuse me, will be at a premium compared to the Mustang, the V6 just lost 40hp, and the turbo has entered the Camaro.

What next? Dare I say it???????????????

PREPO HEADLIGHTS ARE STAYING???????????


After reading this thread, I'm sure GM could f*ck this up some more....they're on a good start.

Funny on the lights thing. That was good......
Your impression last week should not have changed now.
The V6 may or may not have lost any power...that remains to be seen on account of the author's fuzzy wording.

You really don't trust GM with this do you? I can't change that...but I hope you'd give them SOME credit.

Originally Posted by Sweeper

What do you think about.....
$24k 4 cylinder turbo_____260hp
$32k DI V6_____________306hp
$40k V8________________400hp
$50k Supercharged V8____500hp

YOUCH!!!! I think that's really high!!!

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

Try this on .. its more likely the closer to the real thing..

$19k 4 cylinder turbo_____260hp
$24k DI V6_____________306hp
$32k V8________________400hp
$40k Supercharged V8____500hp

I think THAT's much better - and MUCH more realistic. But I want to add my own for kicks and giggles.

$19k 4 cylinder turbo_____260hp
$24k DI V6_____________306hp
$28k V8________________400hp
$38k Supercharged V8____500hp

Originally Posted by Sweeper

What confuses me is.....the Dodge Challenger is 40,095 MSRP and the
Pontiac G8 is 29,995 MSRP. (who knows what the G8 GXP will cost)
So, will Chevy price the V8 Camaro closer to the Challenger or closer to the G8??

Which one is produced by the same company that's building Camaro, and is on the same platform as Camaro?

Originally Posted by AirGoya

We know.
Everyone Chill.

I didnt know the word "premium" could reek such havoc.

Me neither!!
Usually it's regarded well when it's in terms of fuel!

Originally Posted by DGthe3

People, please shut up and read what was originally posted. There will be a V8. There will be a V8. There might be an I4 -rated at 260 hp and 260 ft lbs. MIGHT. It is not definiate, it is something that may or may not happen. But regardless it doesn't really matter because 99% of the members here are interested in the V8's. and there have been I4 Camaros in the past, with fewer than 100 hp. I think its much more of an insult to call a V8 making under 200 hp a Camaro than one with 260 hp in a 4 banger. Neither one is a muscle car. To be classed as such you need a power to weight of under 13 lbs/hp in my books. Even then, that proposed I4 gets close.

The ecotec is a great engine. I would never buy a Camaro powered by one. But such a car would beat a V6 mustang and V6 Challenger in pretty much any race. And power could be built very easily by tuners, those people that build up 4 bangers that can beat corvettes. Guess what, they are the new generation of gearheads. Doesn't matter if you like them or not. They exist, and there are alot of them. it would be stupid for GM to completely ignore them. Now, whether they go ahead and actually cater to them with the Camaro remains to be seen.

Lastly, pricing. Seems to me there is a premium mustang, 2 actually. They sell a whoping $1300 more than the regular versions. OMG. Could it be that perhaps when mentioning 'premium' and 'mustang' and 'pricing' Bob could have meant that the Camaro would be competitive with the premium priced mustang? No, of course not. It has to be $5000 more, GM is stupid, the Camaro will surely fail. Something tells me there are a few more economists at GM than on this board. People who are paid to think of projected sales for particular cars at particular prices. Oh, and they also have people like Fbodfather who pretty much watches everything we say and reports it back where appropriate. as well as reps at car shows over the last 2 years.

This would certainly make some sense. Again, depending on what the Author/and or/ Bob meant when those words were spoken and heard...this could be so very far away from what we're thinking it's nutz.

All in all, if we scream loud enough GM will hear us. But if we sound like idiots they will not listen. I don't want an I4, not very fond of it going into the Camaro like most of the rest of you. I want a V8 Camaro priced within about 10% of the mustang GT. However, there are thousands of potential buyers out there that don't care at all about power or acceleration. Very few of them visit this site. They saw a cool looking car in transformers or at an autoshow. And they would really like to have one in their driveway. spending an extra $10 000 on performance they will never use is a waste of their money.

Thats it from me for now

Very good post, DGthe3. And thank you for speaking with some reason and logic. I highlighted the things I felt were most important that I hadn't touched upon yet.

Originally Posted by TheMadHatter99

Bottom line is GM is counting on this car to seriously boost sales and profits. They are NOT going to make decisions that will drive customers away.

If that doesn't make it through to some of you - then I'm at a loss as to what will.....

Originally Posted by TheMadHatter99

I'll treat any I-4 owner like I would a V6 or V8 Camaro driver: as a friend and fellow appreciator of American automaking. Any of you who think someone who would buy an I-4 is a lesser being has a very wrong attitude. "Camaro" means "friend" after all, and that's what we should all be about.

I scold anybody who feels differently.

Originally Posted by TheMadHatter99

and PS- "Premium" could mean as little as $5 more than the Mustang. We've been told since inception that it'll be priced competitively and I sincerely doubt that GM will go back on that.

We've kept the faith this long, let's keep it a little bit longer.

Thank..............you!!!!

[quote=Mindz;53935
If you are concerned about the "preimum price" comment, let's wait and see if this is explained within a few months. We'll know all the important information around fall when the Challenger is released because GM wants to let the public know that they have a superior product. If at that time you want to whine and bitch and complain, feel free....

....I will keep the faith until official information is released...[/quote]
THAT is the key to all of this. This new little article must be taken in stride. It is not official info - because everything is subject to change right up untill the plant gets activated.

Originally Posted by stovt001

They want to make a Camaro with the Cobalt's I4, but make it heavier, less efficient, and more expensive than the Cobalt.
We don't know that for sure. It may cost about as much as a Cobalt...but RWD, and much better car overall.

They want to take an excellent V6, but then detune it so it doesn't make any more power than the I4, but still presumably charge more for it.
Again...we don't know this for sure. The authore did a poor job of communicating that point.

And I think it is safe to assume that they are offering the above two engines because they really don't want anyone but the privileged few to buy a V8, so it will cost major bucks.
Ouch. Do you really believe that? I hope not.

Originally Posted by stovt001

Of course they could never help that average with Aveos, Volts, and Cobalts, so they'll take the guts out of the Camaro.

I read the rest of your post...but still - Geez!!!

Originally Posted by stovt001

Unfortunately, in doing so they forget that there are people like me who won't be driving many miles, so gas isn't a problem, but who also don't make enough money to buy a "premium" car. But as far as GM is concerned people like me just don't matter, so they throw us under the bus.

No offense meant, really - but *YOU* are not part of the Camaro's priority list, niether am I, nor the next person to post. We all must choose what wee want/need.

Originally Posted by stovt001

What's that? Hyundai offers a small, RWD coupe with a 300+ hp V6? Ford's future V6s will have over 300 hp too? And Ford will have affordable V8s? Oh never mind GM, I just found somewhere else to go.

You know...Hyundai is not nearly the same company as GM, GM's produces many more trucks, and they don't get the happy tax breaks our foriegn neighbors get (but that's for another time)...and GM's doing much more than Ford in the fuel economy dept. (also, you don't know that Ford's V8s will be 'affordable', nor do you know that GM's won't be.

That's a bad point, imo.

Originally Posted by stovt001

Absolutely amazing. Just when you thought all despair was lost and GM's losing ways were over, they manage to pull defeat from the jaws of victory. GM FTL!!!!!!!

hmmmm....Not really sure what to say - 'cause a single car ain't gonna end GM's comeback - especially not a car as bada$$ as this. So it's got a tamer, happier side....so what???

Originally Posted by stovt001

In the end, chances are we're taking this in a way its not meant to be taken. I'm still keeping my optimism up. BUT, if what Bob said does match reality at face value, then what I ranted about above will be true, and I'll be gone. I'm a car enthusiast. It just so happens that the Camaro, as we know it now, was the car to be most enthusiastic about. But if that changes, there are plenty of other fish in the sea, and I won't take another look at GM.

The first sentance was good. Excellent point, and the first half of the second sentance...that's a good plan. The rest....All I can think of to say to people in your predicament is "Sorry". They never indended to please everyone. And, yet...I still don't see how adding an I4 to the lineup is going to ruin the Camaro world for you....

Originally Posted by stovt001

Edit: I really hope everyone reads through the "shock factor" first part of my post and gets to the second part. Understand I'm not just trying to be optimistic; I honestly do think this could be all misconstrued and blown out of proportion. As usual, I'm waiting until everything is officially revealed in whole before making my decision. But I also want to put GM on notice that if they price this too high, especially the V8, I'll buy used or go to another manufacturer. Either way, it is money not in GM's pocket.

I understand. And I see where you're coming from. Just the fact that you say "I'm waiting until everything is officially revealed in whole before making my decision" is enough for me to pass off the rest of what you typed up as ranting/thinking out loud. That's what the boards are here for, after all.

Originally Posted by Kyle2k

Where the hell is fbodfather when you need him huh?

Probably sighing, and trying to think where the hell we all went wrong after replying to his pride thread with "Thank you Fbodfather", and "Your right Fbodfather" and "took the words out of my mouth, Fbodfather", etc. etc...

To think of that. And then to read through this thread.....now, THAT is sad.

[stovt001]

I still don't get the idea of an I4 Camaro. If you want a small, efficient, 4 cyl performance car, that is what the Cobalt is for. That is the car for the tuner crowd. The only drawback is the FWD, but given its class leading 'Ring time, I hardly consider that much of a liability.

[CaptianSam]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

Sigh..... I love correcting misinformation...

/sarcasm off

- The L76 in the G8 GT puts out 368 HP..
- The Twin Turbo V6 won't go into the mustang untill 2011 at the earliest.
- The HP level for the 09 4.6 isn't released guesses are between 30 and 50 hp boost, remember the bullit ups the level to 315, so thats something like 345 to 365 for the Mustang GT
- The new 5.7 is going to get 370 HP for 09+ models (300, charger, challenger)

I'm not even going to touch the Shelby part of your post...

ok so
345 < 368 < 375 < 425
gt < L76 < 5.7 hemi < 6.1 hemi
what i said was right....??? i stand un-corrected.. and check hp rating on gt500 and gt500kr
both 450+ and manual r/t's get 375 you proved my point... thanks...?

[SilverTurtle]

this is, quite possibly, the worst thread ever

[CaptianSam]

what i ment was the bump im price wont matter cuz the ls3 AFM... the money i spend in the start will compile with gas savings thats what i ment
and how long did that take?

[SilverTurtle]

Originally Posted by Fandango

All this Anger! Damn that Rap music!!

and since it hasn't been posted in this thread yet,

:notheadlights:

[The_Stache]

Originally Posted by CaptianSam

ok so
345 < 368 < 375 < 425
gt < L76 < 5.7 hemi < 6.1 hemi
what i said was right....??? i stand un-corrected.. and check hp rating on gt500 and gt500kr
both 450+ and manual r/t's get 375 you proved my point... thanks...?

My point was that you have the L76, The GT, and the 5.7 hemi all within 20 HP. You will never be able to tell the difference, and timed distances will be different in the thousandths of seconds. They are so closely rated that any difference is a wash due to variables like weather, driver, octane, options, ect.

This is also assuming the L76 is the base V8, which chances are its not becuase we have gotten hints that a 400HP+ V8 is the base. Which is discussed in another thread.

[CaptianSam]

lmao ive been up every night until 3 am... this site has caused me sleeping disorders

[SilverTurtle]

Originally Posted by CaptianSam

lmao ive been up every night until 3 am... this site has caused me sleeping disorders

MF

[Tran]

Guys please stop post whoring in this thread.

[CaptianSam]

Originally Posted by diarmadhi

My point was that you have the L76, The GT, and the 5.7 hemi all within 20 HP. You will never be able to tell the difference, and timed distances will be different in the thousandths of seconds. They are so closely rated that any difference is a wash due to variables like weather, driver, octane, options, ect.

This is also assuming the L76 is the base V8, which chances are its not becuase we have gotten hints that a 400HP+ V8 is the base. Which is discussed in another thread.

WELL my point was the in the spectrum of pony cars the camaro is not very good in the hp race... IF!!! the camaro base v8 is the L76 we only hae the mustang gt beat... no dodge v8's or shelbys... camon gm...but better luck next time i guess diarmadhi....??

mustanggt < L76< dodge 5.7< dodge 6.1< all shelby V-8's.....<<<----hp graph lol