Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com
 
Vararam
Go Back   Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums - Camaro5.com > General Camaro Forums > Camaro Price | Ordering | Tracking | Dealers Discussions


Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-05-2009, 10:30 AM   #15
1camaro70
 
1camaro70's Avatar
 
Drives: 2010 2SS RS L99
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: BUTLER, PA
Posts: 531
UCF's numbers are not entirely correct, he is not at fault, but cars are not showing on his scans, mine still does not show #13345 and #13346 a LT m-6 showed one morning and disappeared by noon. mine was built a week ago, 2SS, have no idea if it's shipped but VIN does show up at GM site with price only but no detail, so no matter how hard UCF tries I doubt all preorders will show up, so we really do not know how many R6P cars are built. Also my dealer got in two preorders, both 1SS, one person backed out of order, I will find details today and post because the 1SS is available for sale at msrp.
1camaro70 is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 10:30 AM   #16
GTAHVIT
Blessed
 
GTAHVIT's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Augustine FL
Posts: 28,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hylton View Post
When someone says "I don't disagree", does that mean they do agree? I've always wondered why those words are chosen instead of "agree".
I usually say that when I don't completely agree but don't completely disagree.

GTAHVIT is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 10:37 AM   #17
GTAHVIT
Blessed
 
GTAHVIT's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Augustine FL
Posts: 28,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010SSRSM6 View Post
If someone ordered from a dealership during the R6P period and the dealership didn't have available allocation, are they still considered R6P orders?

Please explain
I'm by no means the expert.

But here is how I understand it. There are are two problems. The most common is you have a R6P or pre ordered from a dealer that is way low on the allocation priority list.

The other is you ordered from a dealer that has already filled its allocation so you would be possibly waiting till after Oct for your car.

So yes you are still an R6P order but The dealer can't guarantee that you will have your car before OCT. Only the R6P order that fell withing the original allocation for SORP are supposed to be filled by Oct.


I'll leave this one up for debate. But that is how I understand it to work.

Anyone else?

GTAHVIT is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 10:37 AM   #18
2010SSRSM6


 
2010SSRSM6's Avatar
 
Drives: My wife crazy with my C5 usage.
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: DFW
Posts: 6,558
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hylton View Post
No. When we discuss R6P on this site, we are only talking about early orders that are within a dealers allocation . If a car is not within the dealers allocation, it is still placed as an order but GM knows immediately that the dealer has sold all it's allocations and the order is held. Problem is that the customer has no idea what is going on. When this issue comes up, GM should be ensuring that the customer understands this so that they have the option of going to a dealership with allocation.
Were dealership allocations determined by the October preorder date?
__________________
UNDER CONSTRUCTION......again......
2010SSRSM6 is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 10:38 AM   #19
ssump29
LOL at most people here.
 
ssump29's Avatar
 
Drives: 2005 GTO,2006 M6, 2007 300 Touring
Join Date: May 2009
Location: MI
Posts: 1,331
It's True my car arrived yesterday in Mt. Pleasant, Mi and left Pontiac early that day. Perks of being in MI is that it only took five hours to get to me. VIN 5952 is home, picking up after work today.
__________________
Number 5952. oh yeahhhhhhh
ssump29 is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 10:38 AM   #20
GTAHVIT
Blessed
 
GTAHVIT's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Augustine FL
Posts: 28,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hylton View Post
No. When we discuss R6P on this site, we are only talking about early orders that are within a dealers allocation . If a car is not within the dealers allocation, it is still placed as an order but GM knows immediately that the dealer has sold all it's allocations and the order is held. Problem is that the customer has no idea what is going on. When this issue comes up, GM should be ensuring that the customer understands this so that they have the option of going to a dealership with allocation.
it looks like you and I may disagree a bit.

Can you please comment on my post also...
GTAHVIT is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 10:39 AM   #21
NotAnInsider
 
Drives: just sold it. Feet!
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Philadelphia, PA
Posts: 391
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010SSRSM6 View Post
If someone ordered from a dealership during the R6P period and the dealership didn't have available allocation, are they still considered R6P orders?

Please explain
Yes, despite not yet being built, their order still has the R6P code. That is, of course, unless they were victim of the glitch that was dropping this code (and/or WRS) off.
NotAnInsider is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 10:42 AM   #22
Hylton


 
Hylton's Avatar
 
Drives: fanboys and ass kissers crazy.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 7,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010SSRSM6 View Post
Were dealership allocations determined by the October preorder date?
Yes. Initial allocation was given to all dealers back in September-October. It was only a guide because there was a possibility that the number may change somewhat. So far, the guide number given last fall is fairly accurate with many dealers being given an extra car or two. I know my dealer got one more and I think Newman Chevrolet (CamaroScotty) got 2 more.
__________________
"BBOMG - More than just a car show.... It's an experience!"
Hylton is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 10:44 AM   #23
GTAHVIT
Blessed
 
GTAHVIT's Avatar
 
Drives: 2013 Sonic RS MT
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Saint Augustine FL
Posts: 28,444
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2010SSRSM6 View Post
Were dealership allocations determined by the October preorder date?
Uhm I don't exactly understand your question...


The National allocation plan was federally approved before the start of regular production for the Camaro.

If you ordered as part of your dealers original allocation then you could expect your car no later than Oct.

If not then it's anyones guess when you will get your car.
GTAHVIT is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 10:46 AM   #24
rayhawk

 
rayhawk's Avatar
 
Drives: Camaro SS
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Miami
Posts: 1,060
Let me start by saying, I have not ordered a car yet, so I don't really understand people's aggravation due to the waiting process, but I can appreciate the desire to get your car. With that said, I think people are being a bit unrealistic with all the complaining about the pre-order process.

Think about it from a business standpoint. GM would be best served by not having any pre-order process. The car's would generate the most revenue for the dealer network, and ultimately require GM to provide less incentives to the dealers if they did not have a pre-order program. Many people were able to negotiate MSRP for this car before most dealers knew what was coming. Now that the demand is obvious to the dealers, very few are willing to sell the car at sticker price. GM did this program, at their expense, to help build loyal fans and repeat customers. Most people here would have had to fight on ebay to get a car in the first 2-3 months, and virtually none of them would be sold at MSRP.

If the bean counters were truly running GM, they would not be building R6P cars at all right now, because those are sold orders already, and in many cases the dealer is not getting "market value". They would be building dealer lot cars to maximize dealer profit and keep them in the black.

Yes, some people get their car off the lot before others get their R6P cars, but in many cases it is due to somebody backing out of an R6P order, so that person just was in the right place at the right time.

Last thought: I don't understand why people say they have been waiting 7 months for their car. You ordered in October knowing production didn't start until February, and that was pushed back for all cars by a month. So at best, you have been waiting since mid-March, which is only a bit more than 2 months. The time before production was well known ahead of time, so stop counting that as wait time.
__________________
rayhawk is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 10:47 AM   #25
Hylton


 
Hylton's Avatar
 
Drives: fanboys and ass kissers crazy.
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Ottawa, Ontario
Posts: 7,280
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTAHVIT View Post
it looks like you and I may disagree a bit.

Can you please comment on my post also...
Quote:
Originally Posted by GTAHVIT View Post
I'm by no means the expert.

But here is how I understand it. There are are two problems. The most common is you have a R6P or pre ordered from a dealer that is way low on the allocation priority list.

The other is you ordered from a dealer that has already filled its allocation so you would be possibly waiting till after Oct for your car.

So yes you are still an R6P order but The dealer can't guarantee that you will have your car before OCT. Only the R6P order that fell withing the original allocation for SORP are supposed to be filled by Oct.


I'll leave this one up for debate. But that is how I understand it to work.

Anyone else?

We are not that far apart actually. We agree about the orders outside of allocation and probably agree on what should be done with those. As far as the allocation priority, I've always looked at it as delivery would be on a percentage basis. So - if your dealership got an initial allocation of 50 cars and mine got an initial allocation of 5 cars, your dealership would receive 10 cars for every 1 car mine received. It would be very difficult for GM to manage it any other way although it's not impossible.
__________________
"BBOMG - More than just a car show.... It's an experience!"
Hylton is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 10:48 AM   #26
UCF w00t
Geek
 
UCF w00t's Avatar
 
Drives: IOM 2010 Camaro 2SS
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Orlando
Posts: 4,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by 1camaro70 View Post
UCF's numbers are not entirely correct, he is not at fault, but cars are not showing on his scans, mine still does not show #13345 and #13346 a LT m-6 showed one morning and disappeared by noon. mine was built a week ago, 2SS, have no idea if it's shipped but VIN does show up at GM site with price only but no detail, so no matter how hard UCF tries I doubt all preorders will show up, so we really do not know how many R6P cars are built. Also my dealer got in two preorders, both 1SS, one person backed out of order, I will find details today and post because the 1SS is available for sale at msrp.
My numbers ARE correct. That's why I gave a percentage, and not a number. We can assume that cars that are currently showing on the window sticker pages are a relatively accurate sample of the cars being built. There's not some model or type that are being omitted. In addition, both R6P and non-R6P cars show up on the site with no bias towards one or the other. I know I have not captured every car but I have captured the R6P data for well over 3000 of the 14000 or so that have been built up to this point. I don't remember the formulas for sample size from my statistics courses but it's safe to say that we have a large enough sample size to have a valid estimate within a few percentage points of the actual numbers.

Last edited by UCF w00t; 06-05-2009 at 10:59 AM.
UCF w00t is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 10:52 AM   #27
Edrock

 
Edrock's Avatar
 
Drives: '10 Camaro 2SS LS3
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: Jamestown, NC
Posts: 964
Yep...the pre-order deal turned out to be a big pile of dung for GM I think. Hope they learn something from it. I just get so tired of seeing post after post after post where someone has ordered in March, April, or May, and their car is either in transit or they are posting pictures of it in their driveway. Don't get me wrong, I'm happy for these people. It could have easily been me instead of them but this goes to show just how big a screwed up mess the pre-order process has been. I certainly won't ever do it again I can tell you that. I really don't like to get mad and irratated but have been pushed into that mode....and that really pisses me off...
__________________
DT Shorties, Solo hi-flow Cats, X-pipe, resonator delete, Flowmaster Super-44s, VMAX TB, Stronger MAF, C.A.I. Intake with race scoop, and JRE Tune!
WOT is my happy place!!
Edrock is offline  
Old 06-05-2009, 10:55 AM   #28
UCF w00t
Geek
 
UCF w00t's Avatar
 
Drives: IOM 2010 Camaro 2SS
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Orlando
Posts: 4,452
Quote:
Originally Posted by rayhawk View Post
Let me start by saying, I have not ordered a car yet, so I don't really understand people's aggravation due to the waiting process, but I can appreciate the desire to get your car. With that said, I think people are being a bit unrealistic with all the complaining about the pre-order process.

Think about it from a business standpoint. GM would be best served by not having any pre-order process. The car's would generate the most revenue for the dealer network, and ultimately require GM to provide less incentives to the dealers if they did not have a pre-order program. Many people were able to negotiate MSRP for this car before most dealers knew what was coming. Now that the demand is obvious to the dealers, very few are willing to sell the car at sticker price. GM did this program, at their expense, to help build loyal fans and repeat customers. Most people here would have had to fight on ebay to get a car in the first 2-3 months, and virtually none of them would be sold at MSRP.

If the bean counters were truly running GM, they would not be building R6P cars at all right now, because those are sold orders already, and in many cases the dealer is not getting "market value". They would be building dealer lot cars to maximize dealer profit and keep them in the black.

Yes, some people get their car off the lot before others get their R6P cars, but in many cases it is due to somebody backing out of an R6P order, so that person just was in the right place at the right time.

Last thought: I don't understand why people say they have been waiting 7 months for their car. You ordered in October knowing production didn't start until February, and that was pushed back for all cars by a month. So at best, you have been waiting since mid-March, which is only a bit more than 2 months. The time before production was well known ahead of time, so stop counting that as wait time.
This could not be further from the truth.

GM used the preorder process to give them a guide as to what option configurations would be most popular. This allowed them to order parts from their suppliers more accurately which reduces overhead and also maximizes efficiency of the assembly line for the demand. While I agree that this has been a pain to dealers and customers, the benefit to GM itself has trumped all other concerns. GM really doesn't much care what a dealer sells the car for. It's not their money. They get paid invoice (or thereabouts) whether the car sells for $20,000 or $100,000.

As my scan has shown, 45% of the orders built right now are not preorders at all. Yes, some preorder cars have become available due to financing and other issues but that's not the concern here. Our concern is about the cars being built.
UCF w00t is offline  
 
Closed Thread

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Update from Fbodfather on QC Hold and R6P GTAHVIT 5th Gen Camaro SS LS LT General Discussions 0 06-05-2009 09:29 AM
Update on Quality Control held Camaros and R6P Orders Tran Camaro Price | Ordering | Tracking | Dealers Discussions 0 06-05-2009 09:28 AM


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:30 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.