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Old 03-10-2012, 09:35 PM   #15
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Bemore.. I got a CEL during a cold start last winter. It was a misfire CEL and it was really cold. The engine at the time didn't have a tune. I took it the dealer and they updated the computer to run at a higher rpm during choke to prevent misfires. Good since then. There is a TSB for this.

I know your situation is different but maybe raising the rpm during choke mode may fix your problem.
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Old 03-10-2012, 09:55 PM   #16
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Thanks as always catman! I am getting misfire in all cylinders when I monitor in real time but so far the misfire CEL has been for cylinder 2, 5, and 3.

Kmorpheus, I probably been giving her more than she can handle lately in a weird sense I need some humor right now seriously. Thanks.

Mach, I was just doing some extensive searching on "cold start misfire camaro" and it seems alot of folks are having this issue, and you are right, there is even a TSB on this, but I wonder if I fall in the category since I have a 2011. Going to the dealer means I have to do alot of work to put the car back to stock. Header is the main thing that get in my way but we all know header is a PITA just to be switching on and off. So when the rpm idle at 1k rpm when cold is called choke? So what rpm does your car idle after the reflash when in choke mode? Normally it's 1k rpm. I can probably ask vince to raise the rpm for me or whatever else that need to be done if you can tell me what exactly is updated in the tsb. If is only rpm than that should be an easy try.
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Old 03-11-2012, 06:16 AM   #17
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I know, go get that Genesis coupe.
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Old 03-11-2012, 08:11 AM   #18
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I know, go get that Genesis coupe.
eeewwww... LOL!

Man, been looking into this some more... wide range of things could be causing the misfire... ugh.. hopefully can get to the bottom of it easily!
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Old 03-11-2012, 09:46 AM   #19
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1) Clean your plugs and replace any that need it.
2) Check your compression
3) Check your coils

Those are the three easiest/cheapest things to do. If those don't fix/diagnose the problem then I think you will have quite a bit of work on your hands.
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Old 03-11-2012, 10:22 AM   #20
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Jak, I know what scrming is thinking ECOBOOST!!!

Gretch, I been thinking about my coils and the plugs and would it really make sense for misfires and rough idle to only occur only for those brief 10 seconds during the initial choke mode, cold start or whatever is called?? as soon as the rpm come down there's not even 1 misfire that get recorded and the rest of the drive is smooth as any other times. I would think if the plugs or the coils was the problem, I should be able to see the effects of that even after the initial 10 second cold start. Would you agree with me?

One thing does come to my mind tho, head gasket. If there is a small leak on the head gasket it could be very possible that all cold start would cause misfires and rough start, but we know it does not take but seconds for the block to get hot enough for any small leak to close back up. When we was initially testing the tune, we was running peak 35* of timing and who knows how much dynamic compression we was running. I know one good reason why a head gasket would blow or cause a leak is too much timing and too much compression. It could also cause cylinder wall wear which would drop compression, burn the valves, melt a piston, break a rod, but those would be my nightmare. I don't think it's as bad as those tho because it would go beyond just initial cold start I believe.

Any more thoughts guys?
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:00 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmorecam View Post
Jak, I know what scrming is thinking ECOBOOST!!!

Gretch, I been thinking about my coils and the plugs and would it really make sense for misfires and rough idle to only occur only for those brief 10 seconds during the initial choke mode, cold start or whatever is called?? as soon as the rpm come down there's not even 1 misfire that get recorded and the rest of the drive is smooth as any other times. I would think if the plugs or the coils was the problem, I should be able to see the effects of that even after the initial 10 second cold start. Would you agree with me?

One thing does come to my mind tho, head gasket. If there is a small leak on the head gasket it could be very possible that all cold start would cause misfires and rough start, but we know it does not take but seconds for the block to get hot enough for any small leak to close back up. When we was initially testing the tune, we was running peak 35* of timing and who knows how much dynamic compression we was running. I know one good reason why a head gasket would blow or cause a leak is too much timing and too much compression. It could also cause cylinder wall wear which would drop compression, burn the valves, melt a piston, break a rod, but those would be my nightmare. I don't think it's as bad as those tho because it would go beyond just initial cold start I believe.

Any more thoughts guys?
Yes, fouled plugs and bad coils just get worse over time. You are most likely to see the first symptoms when the engine is cold (especially the coils). Small compression leaks will be more noticable on start up, especially if it is a bad gasket.
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:14 AM   #22
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I guess I will do the compression/plugs/coil check since I have to take out one to get to the other. What is the best way to check for bad coil?
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:19 AM   #23
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I would rule out a head gasket problem. You are recording miss fires on all cyls in choke mode correct? If so I have a hard time beleiving you pushed the head gaskets on all 6 cyls. I could see one or two cyls having a gasket problem but not all 6.
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Old 03-11-2012, 11:32 AM   #24
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What type and heat range spark plugs are you running? Also could be bad gas.
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Old 03-11-2012, 12:00 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmorecam View Post
Jak, I know what scrming is thinking ECOBOOST!!!
Well... Livernois has now cracked the encryption on the F-150 EcoBoost...



From Rick @ Livernois:

"It comes into boost quick now, so there is a spike at the beginning of the graph. Peak gains on this pull were 69 RWHP and 88 RWTQ. Notice though up top, gains are much more. I left the cursor on the graph so you can see the gains. Around 104 RWHP / 114 RWTQ."

Just sayin'.... LOL
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Old 03-11-2012, 12:38 PM   #26
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I still struggle with irregular idle and thumping when it is extremely cold out.
Only when on high idle also.
Direct injection does not lubricate the intake valves so I tried cleaning the throttle and spraying some mystery oil in the intake thinking the intakes may be sticking while cold. It worked for a while then the problem came back a while later.
Just something simple you could try before tearing into things.
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Old 03-11-2012, 01:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Macrackie View Post
I would rule out a head gasket problem. You are recording miss fires on all cyls in choke mode correct? If so I have a hard time beleiving you pushed the head gaskets on all 6 cyls. I could see one or two cyls having a gasket problem but not all 6.
I'm trying not to think is my head gasket, pistons, valves, or anything major. Trying to keep things in more positive perspective

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pt_killa View Post
What type and heat range spark plugs are you running? Also could be bad gas.
Just stock plugs. I have a little over 20k miles since january of 2011. I was thinking that but I been using the same gas from the same gas station since I got the car so I am kind of ruling that out.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scrming View Post
Well... Livernois has now cracked the encryption on the F-150 EcoBoost...



From Rick @ Livernois:

"It comes into boost quick now, so there is a spike at the beginning of the graph. Peak gains on this pull were 69 RWHP and 88 RWTQ. Notice though up top, gains are much more. I left the cursor on the graph so you can see the gains. Around 104 RWHP / 114 RWTQ."

Just sayin'.... LOL
you are such a bad influence my friend That new ecoboost ST still float in my brain every once in awhile, especially after seeing how the ST-R was built with production parts.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TooCool5 View Post
I still struggle with irregular idle and thumping when it is extremely cold out.
Only when on high idle also.
Direct injection does not lubricate the intake valves so I tried cleaning the throttle and spraying some mystery oil in the intake thinking the intakes may be sticking while cold. It worked for a while then the problem came back a while later.
Just something simple you could try before tearing into things.
I used techron fuel system cleaner two days ago and it's still in the gas tank.

The crazy thing is that today when I started the car up for the first time I was almost sure that it was going to misfire again, so I had my video camera on my phone running but surprisingly she started up perfectly. The temp was a little warmer tho at 55*, so not sure if that was warm enough to start normally on choke mode.
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Old 03-11-2012, 01:41 PM   #28
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If it were me I'd do all that gretchen has recommended and also if its not too much trouble, remove the insulators and put the head back in place with stock gasket and see how that works for a little while.

Problem is, I know you have that dyno session scheduled for wednesday and this really throws a wrench into that.

So in that case you probably don't want to remove the insulators.....so gretchen's recommendations it is!
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