Prepping your car for HPDE and the Road Course.

[Zeus95]

Originally Posted by ssmike

T-Bone and TLSTWIN have been really helpfull at a couple events for me too! Zeus, I think you're the one who loaned me your Go-Pro at Gingerman! These track days are full of a bunch of guys who are truly enthusiastic and love to help other guys, especially novice drivers like me! Thanks guys and great thread T!

Yep, that was me SSMIKE, I agree these 2 guys are great at helping us Nobs out (at least this NOB). We do appreciate all the advise and tips ! Hopefully we will all meet up at Gingerman again this year.

[h018871]

Sub'd

[danvillekidd]

Does anyone have knowledge of HANS (or other brands) type safety devices? After several months and doctors visits I am learning about my neck problems. I want to continue to do AutoX and HPDE events, but I also want to protect my neck the best I can to minimize further damage. I have been using here and google to learn what I can, but I also want to turn to people with knowledge who can point me in the right direction.
Thanks

[Norm Peterson]

See if you can find anything at Circle Track's website - I know I've seen articles in the print magazines.


Norm

[boltvette]

Originally Posted by RLHMARINES

These videos by Jeff Bucknam are helpful also for HPDE.

Jeff's Tips on Proper Seat Adjustments for the Track
http://youtu.be/QhwZIob1Qkg

The item Jeff mentions in this video (but can't come up with the name) is Angel Pads by Angelwings Tech. They will hold your hips in place so you can use the steering wheel to point the car, not as a device to help you keep your butt in your seat.

[TBone]

Bump.

T.

[wakespeak]

Overall HPDE is a total blast. Some of my takeaways below (stock SS). It was my second time on the track and first at Texas World Speedway. I started in the Green group and moved to Blue for the last session. Comments:

Brakes. I upgraded to stainless steel brake lines and DOT4 prior. No issues with fluid. HOWEVER, the stock pads developed a glaze I think in the third session. I thought I would hit the guy parked in front of me as I pulled up to stage for the next one. So we took the warmup lap conservatively with some brake testing and the glaze burned off, brakes fine. The stock pads wore quickly; I could probably have worn them to the wear indicators if I pushed harder. Not the right choice for more than 1 HPDE.

Wheels. I torqued my stock SS wheels to 150 Nm the night before. I checked them at the end of the first day and they were all loose. I had a little vibration braking from 120mph at the straight.

Tires. The stock Pirellis are just fine unless you have to be the fastest. 1LEs will own you however. It turns out the 1LE Goodyears and the SS Pirelli's have the same wear rating (250), so it may be just width and aspect ratio, though I gotta think the compound is softer when warm. After 2 track days the Pirelli's wore some for sure, but they are still fine for daily driving with 21K miles on them.

Stock SS suspension. You can have plenty of fun with the FE4 suspension. I was getting held back by Lotus' and Boss Mustangs, though barely. With the nannies on, you can just keep your foot down through the curves in the beginning as you learn the line. However the body roll is annoying and limiting as you go faster. I put a 1LE bar after the track days on the rear and this is probably all it needed to counter most of it, although I am predicting the car will break free with less notice. I have the front bar on order. I am thinking cradle bushings and rear toe links would help as well.

Stock SS gearing. The 3.45 held me back relative to the SRT8 Challengers and Boss Mustangs if a significant straight occurred between corners. This track was 3rd gear with one shift to 4th on the straight. I would be at 6000rpm at ~100mph in 3rd on the back straight before hitting the brakes. I could only just touch 120mph on the front straight in forth at 4500 rpm (roughly). The 3.91 I am predicting would get me to 125-130. Otherwise CAI and/or headers would likely provide a similar boost given the rpms.

1LE oil separator. A must I think. No oil consumption over the 2 days.

"Its not a race." So true. There were a couple of show offs that ended up going off the track or otherwise pushing the car more than they or it could handle. I would line up with a lot of cars between us to avoid being near them. Other guys were clearly in control but still very fast. Remember insurance will likely only cover you once, if at all. Focus on learning the line.

Oil temps. I was at the third tick mark after each session, though pressure seemed same as when at 210. Used Pennzoil Ultra Euro 5w-30. Air temps were around 80-90 deg.

I am now going to get another set of wheels/tires. Track brakes pads for sure. This along with the front/rear 1LE stabilizer bars should fix the things that annoyed me on the track. If I get picky it will be cradle bushing, rear toe links, and gears. Then better seat belts, headers, CAI, R compound tires, better brake discs, .....

[thahemp]

This is a great thread. Well done T.

[mp51998]

Subscribed. Thanks T-bone. Why is this not a sticky yet?

[Balok]

Thanks for this thread guys, it's really helpful for my preparation for my upcoming track day at VIR in 2 weeks. I do have a few questions though and I apologize in advance for the noob questions, lol.

Let me also say that I don't plan on being ANYWHERE even near the "limit" in this car. The last thing I want to do is wad up my brand new Spring Edition SS and have to bring it home on a rollback, lol. High or "top" speed is meaningless to me. For me, it's all about proper entry, apex and a good exit in the corners. I could care less about going 100+ mph, but getting through "Roller-Coaster" and a good launch out of "Hogpen" is what I'm there for. That is plenty enough thrill and fun for me. I've been an iRacing member since it started and have raced hundreds of laps there in the sim which is amazingly accurate, so I know the line very well. But that don't give you the "seat of the pants" feel which I'll have to get used to. But I plan on letting a lot of cars pass on the straights, lol. Anyway, here are a few things I was wondering:

1 - Can and will the dealership make the modifications to my braking system (pads, stainless steel lines and fluid) or will I need to go to a High Performance shop of some type?

2 - If I go to an independent shop or to the dealership for that matter, will making those mods void any warranties in any way? My car is brand new and I don't want to risk messing anything up in that regard.

3 - Is there any adverse effect of just keeping the "racing" brake pads and fluid on/in the car for normal street use or do they need to be swapped back after the track day? I assume the ss brake lines are irrelevant to this.

4 - Do the rotors have to be turned when you swap the pads out? Like I say, this car is brand new with only 600 miles on it up to now, and I'd hate to have to turn the rotors with that few miles.

5 - Does VIR have Nitrogen to fill your tires? I'm pretty sure that's what's in my SS because it has the green stem caps on it.

Thanks, and again, sorry if these are noobish questions, lol. I'm sure I'll have more!

[Norm Peterson]

Plan on running up as many break-in miles as you can between now and then. It's not just the engine that needs its parts to wear in to each other.


3. There is no adverse effect from flushing with better brake fluid. Track pads are very likely to be noisy in street use, absolutely will be dusty, and are somewhat harder on rotors. On the other hand, entry-level track pads (HP+, XP8, etc.) have at least adequate cold bite to be usable on the street if you can deal with noise and dust.

I'm very hesitant to even suggest running this first event on OE pads, even though people have and you claim to not be interested in "100+". That's what you say now . . . before you're out there thinking "I can stay with that guy I just pointed by" or your instructor tells you he thinks you're faster than him (this happens, trust me).


Norm

[td195f]

Originally Posted by Balok

Thanks for this thread guys, it's really helpful for my preparation for my upcoming track day at VIR in 2 weeks. I do have a few questions though and I apologize in advance for the noob questions, lol.

Let me also say that I don't plan on being ANYWHERE even near the "limit" in this car. The last thing I want to do is wad up my brand new Spring Edition SS and have to bring it home on a rollback, lol. High or "top" speed is meaningless to me. For me, it's all about proper entry, apex and a good exit in the corners. I could care less about going 100+ mph, but getting through "Roller-Coaster" and a good launch out of "Hogpen" is what I'm there for. That is plenty enough thrill and fun for me. I've been an iRacing member since it started and have raced hundreds of laps there in the sim which is amazingly accurate, so I know the line very well. But that don't give you the "seat of the pants" feel which I'll have to get used to. But I plan on letting a lot of cars pass on the straights, lol. Anyway, here are a few things I was wondering:

1 - Can and will the dealership make the modifications to my braking system (pads, stainless steel lines and fluid) or will I need to go to a High Performance shop of some type?

2 - If I go to an independent shop or to the dealership for that matter, will making those mods void any warranties in any way? My car is brand new and I don't want to risk messing anything up in that regard.

3 - Is there any adverse effect of just keeping the "racing" brake pads and fluid on/in the car for normal street use or do they need to be swapped back after the track day? I assume the ss brake lines are irrelevant to this.

4 - Do the rotors have to be turned when you swap the pads out? Like I say, this car is brand new with only 600 miles on it up to now, and I'd hate to have to turn the rotors with that few miles.

5 - Does VIR have Nitrogen to fill your tires? I'm pretty sure that's what's in my SS because it has the green stem caps on it.

Thanks, and again, sorry if these are noobish questions, lol. I'm sure I'll have more!

Answers to a few of your questions based on my experience.
1- I was just at Watkins Glen with a ZL1 owner and his Chevy Dealer did the brake fluid replacement for him for a nominal fee. I don't know about pad swaps or stainless lines. I do my own work so I have done all of this myself.
For your first time out you can use the stock Brembo pads. They are much better than anyone gives them credit for. I have gotten five track days at Watkins Glen out of the stock front pads and they are finally ready to replace.

3- Track pads are noisy and make a lot of dust (the stock Brembo pads also make a lot of dust) if you are willing to live with the noise and dust then an entry level track pad will be fine on the street.

4- The rotors don't have to be turned when you swap pads but based on which way you are going track to street or street to track, the rotors will need to be cleaned and the pads rebedded. Search Stoptech's Tech Info, they have specific topics on pad swaps and the actions required.

Hope this helps some.

[z28lt1]

Originally Posted by td195f

Answers to a few of your questions based on my experience.
1- I was just at Watkins Glen with a ZL1 owner and his Chevy Dealer did the brake fluid replacement for him for a nominal fee. I don't know about pad swaps or stainless lines. I do my own work so I have done all of this myself.
For your first time out you can use the stock Brembo pads. They are much better than anyone gives them credit for. I have gotten five track days at Watkins Glen out of the stock front pads and they are finally ready to replace.

3- Track pads are noisy and make a lot of dust (the stock Brembo pads also make a lot of dust) if you are willing to live with the noise and dust then an entry level track pad will be fine on the street.

4- The rotors don't have to be turned when you swap pads but based on which way you are going track to street or street to track, the rotors will need to be cleaned and the pads rebedded. Search Stoptech's Tech Info, they have specific topics on pad swaps and the actions required.

Hope this helps some.

Adding to what was written above:
1 - Results will vary by dealer. I bet it would be hard to find a dealer willing to do stainless lines, but pads and fluid less so.
2 - Pads and fluid are maintenance items, as long as you use the approved fluids, no warranty issues. Stainless lines on the other hand modify the system. I doubt you would have issues, but if you lose a caliper while under warranty (very rare), there's a slight possibility the dealer blames the lines.

3- In addition to what td195f wrote, SOME racing pads are aggressive on rotors, and you may go through them more quickly running those pads all the time, and SOME pads (typically the more advanced compounds) don't work as well when cold, so you'll want to be a little cautious for the first stop or two in the morning. The cold stop problem seems to be less and less of a problem over the years, many pads are fine cold or hot.

5 - I have no idea if VIR has nitrogen for tire fills, I doubt it though. My advice is to forget the nitrogen and just add regular air when you need it. You'll lose what little benefit you get from the Nitrogen, but it will be much more convenient.

Have fun.

[Balok]

Well, this is escalating rather quickly. I should have done this before I posted here so I'd know a little more about it. But I just spoke with my friend who is the GM of the dealership where I got my SS. We've been close friends for more than 20 years so I know I can trust him. I asked him about what they could do, and about all they can offer me is a set of higher performance Brembo pads for the front, and swap out the fluid. He also said that any mods I make like the stainless steel lines would probably void my warranty on the braking system. It is unclear however, whether that would void the warranty on let's say the master cylinder if it goes out though, so I don't know what to do, lol. This is getting a lot more involved that I imagined, but if it keeps me from doing something like this at 9:20, it's worth it.