ZL1-LSA-MR+LS7+Pedders Coilovers = Z28?

[2cnd chance]

^that equals exactly $42,900. SOLD!

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

"Tomorrow"...we're just not quite sure how many "grains of sand" are in the "GM Hourglass"...

Again, we see a reappearance of the "LS7 is heavy" urban legend... Converted to wet-sump, as per crash-testing (no tank) AND weight avoidance, the LS3 in any guise and the LS7 are within a handful of pounds, dressed but "naked" as requested by Pete. With judicious application (or rather lack of) "stuff 'n doodads", a 1SS (with LS interior) + LS7 + HD (ZL1-derived) Driveline - MR +FE4 + ZL1 Wheels/Tires/Exhaust = <1SS Curb Weight. And the LS7's life expectancy is equivalent, roughly, to the Gen-5 Camaro. Here's a recipe to ensure that...

At that weight, with cat-like reflexes, the arrow missing from the Camaro quiver...isn't...at a premium well below a ZL1, but equally above a Base 2SS...

I was with you right up to that RED BOLDED text. How do you get that what you've spec'ed out is less than a 1SS in Curb Weight? A heavy duty drive train (ZL1) and heavy duty chassis bits (FE4) will weigh more. And what is in the 1SS interior that isn't in an LS interior that would offer an offset?

ANNNNNNNND where are my damn brakes?????? I want the ZL1 brakes.

Hope you know I am having fun

Originally Posted by 2cnd chance

^that equals exactly $42,900. SOLD!

Wait...............holy huh? How much for that drivetrain, not even counting the LS7, are you putting in your financial model?

And I still want those dang gosh darn brakes.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I was with you right up to that RED BOLDED text. How do you get that what you've spec'ed out is less than a 1SS in Curb Weight? A heavy duty drive train (ZL1) and heavy duty chassis bits (FE4) will weigh more. And what is in the 1SS interior that isn't in an LS interior that would offer an offset?

ANNNNNNNND where are my damn brakes?????? I want the ZL1 brakes.

Hope you know I am having fun

Wait...............holy huh? How much for that drivetrain, not even counting the LS7, are you putting in your financial model?

And I still want those dang gosh darn brakes.

Number 3, pleasepleaseplease forgive the slight-of-digit in NOT including the MANDATORY brakes...pretty please!! You ARE "pretty", aren't you? Pretty dang gosh happy IF/WHEN the fine fashionably-late-but-nonetheless-great Zee arrives...

As to LS Trim...no 6-way seat, and a few other minor/trivial details. When combined with option code JP0...as in JusticePeteZero extra anything that is not 100% protein-enriched, carb-free on the assemblyline menu...we can save enough avoir du pois to offset said "necessities of Zee"...with ZEAL!

BTW, how much would that smaller gizzoline tank, ya mentioned a month or so ago, add to the ridiculously low MSRP of ONLY $44,995?

[Number 3]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Number 3, pleasepleaseplease forgive the slight-of-digit in NOT including the MANDATORY brakes...pretty please!! You ARE "pretty", aren't you? Pretty dang gosh happy IF/WHEN the fine fashionably-late-but-nonetheless-great Zee arrives...

As to LS Trim...no 6-way seat, and a few other minor/trivial details. When combined with option code JP0...as in JusticePeteZero extra anything that is not 100% protein-enriched, carb-free on the assemblyline menu...we can save enough avoir du pois to offset said "necessities of Zee"...with ZEAL!

BTW, how much would that smaller gizzoline tank, ya mentioned a month or so ago, add to the ridiculously low MSRP of ONLY $44,995?

HA! I knew you just forgot the brakes, a KEY element to any track intentioned Camaro.

And the gas tank issue isn't so much the piece price, just the tooling and re-validation. Do-able, and not impossible.

Now if you want to impact dry weight or curb weight is the issue. Dry, tank size being smaller would be proportionately less weight. But the tank itself isn't that heavy. The kicker would be Curb Weight, which if I recall is a half tank?? It could be full but for some reason I remember 1/2 tank. But in the end any driver can control that by simply never filling over 1/2 tank and save 9 gallons or about 70 pounds.

I forgot all about the LS manual seat. That would be a few pounds, but not nearly enough to offset the ZL1 drivetrain upgrades.

And I'm not sure we want to use the Adkins Diet to get a lean Z28, LOL

[Blizzard]

Originally Posted by Z284ever

Something is afoot. Stay tuned.

I know what you mean.


Now to those who want a smaller gas tank in the Z28, while it will save weight it will cost more. Retooling cost money even more when its not the standard for the rest of the lineup.

Now retooling for somethings is needed and would be nice across the board, such as the geometry of the rear suspension the help put the power to the ground better.

[LOWDOWN]

Originally Posted by Number 3

I forgot all about the LS manual seat. That would be a few pounds, but not nearly enough to offset the ZL1 drivetrain upgrades.

And I'm not sure we want to use the Adkins Diet to get a lean Z28, LOL

The "diet" can achieve, just as with physiology, gains from ounces here, and the odd pound there. Mastic/matting/seam-sealer/sound deadener, here 'n there, judiciously applied (or NOT as the case may be) will not be greatly missed by those interested in listening to a "mechanical symphony" as opposed to a "CadMaro catacomb"... Not that NVH can be completely ignored, but those "in the know" can discern where a proper compromise can occur, and weight savings achieved.

IF you pull 50-or-so pounds out of the basic 1SS structure (forgetting things like the obligatory embroidered floormats!), use a "wet" LS7 (bonnetless, unless mandatory for the "drive-by"), add forged wheels (and 19s weigh less than 20s...) and 180- or 200-rated Summer-onlys with a can of StopLeak in the trunk, you now can add the HD Tremec/Diff-3.73 as per CTS-V/Axles/Brakes(2-piece rotors?) and Bars/Bushings/Springs @ or a bit under the '12 1SS's listed Curb of 3849 lb.

Combined with a 505 hp rating, and an arguable Curb of 3825-3850, you have a 7.60 +/- lb/hp scalpel. BUT, @ 470 ft-lb. of TORQUE, your pounds per ft-lb. = 8.16. So, you ask? Some comparisons:

BOSS - 3631 lb/380 = 9.56!

GT500 - 3820 lb/510 = 7.49

ZL1 - 4050 lb (?)/551 (CTS-V) = 7.35

Excuse this example which uses, of all things, a NEON...but the facts are the facts: http://www.allpar.com/eek/hp-vs-torque.html

Anyone who road races (Pete, where are you?) can verify corner-exit TORQUE is a pretty good way to enhance lap times!! A properly-slimmed/trimmed/packaged Zee28 with an LS7 could have a 1.40 lb/ft-lb. ADVANTAGE over a BOSS...8.16 vs. 9.56...folks, that's HUGE!

"All other things being equal"...which means BOSS-matching-or-better tires, and BOSS-beating IRS/suspension...and roughly-equal weight distribution, fore/aft.

And, as you can see, the ZL1's LSA will carry (no pun...) an advantage in this regard, as well, over the Shelby GT (pick-a-number).

The differential between the ZL1 and Zee28 is only .80, still big, but that extra 200 lb. on the nose, even with MR, leaves a lot of room for enhanced manouverability...IMVHO.

In "usual" power-to-weight terms, the Zee can also trounce the not-so-BOSS:

3840 lb/505 hp = 7.60 lb/hp - Zee28

3631 lb/444 hp = 8.18 lb/hp - not-so-BOSS

$44,995, done.

Any questions?!

I think we have the "answer"...

Too bad Mark Donohue wasn't around to "verify"...but we'll take Ron Fellows, in his place, in a White car with Red stripes...

"With BROAD STRIPES on BRIGHT CARS!"

[DGthe3]

wth is a Zee 28?

[LOWDOWN]

Well, Gibby, since *wink*wink* there is NO such a thing (confirmed) as a Z/28, we're using the American-pronounced version, with complete spelling... We don't wanna get ahead of ourselves...right?! And this way, GM-informed folks can participate with immunity...and impunity...

However, since it may/will be Oshawa-built, perhaps we should defer to the Canadian-pronounced-and-spelt ZED28, instead?

Any other questions?

[Fightinfire921]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Well, Gibby, since *wink*wink* there is NO such a thing (confirmed) as a Z/28, we're using the American-pronounced version, with complete spelling... We don't wanna get ahead of ourselves...right?! And this way, GM-informed folks can participate with immunity...and impunity...

However, since it may/will be Oshawa-built, perhaps we should defer to the Canadian-pronounced-and-spelt ZED28, instead?

Any other questions?

What he said!! AY!!

[2cnd chance]

Zed28 hmm, could we build...

[LOWDOWN]

Something occurred to me while doing some "research". At the risk of not using the ZL1 wheels/tires in favor of using 19s instead, a comparable-width 19" forged wheel would save 1 or 2 lb. per rim vs. 20s. And the corresponding-sized 19" tires would also save a pound or two per tire vs. a 20". 10-15 additional lb. savings, but at the expen$e of validating new rims...while reducing crucial unsprung weight.

The end cost to GM, 19s vs. 20s, would likely be a draw on the Zee, but might save some on the cost of the ZL1 by greater piece-cost savings if the Zee used its 20s.

The 19's shorter tire diameters, in and of themselves, would also slightly lower the car, enhancing handling through lower cg.

Number 3, what say you?

[JusticePete]

Originally Posted by LOWDOWN

Something occurred to me while doing some "research". At the risk of not using the ZL1 wheels/tires in favor of using 19s instead, a comparable-width 19" forged wheel would save 1 or 2 lb. per rim vs. 20s. And the corresponding-sized 19" tires would also save a pound or two per tire vs. a 20". 10-15 additional lb. savings, but at the expen$e of validating new rims...while reducing crucial unsprung weight.

The end cost to GM, 19s vs. 20s, would likely be a draw on the Zee, but might save some on the cost of the ZL1 by greater piece-cost savings if the Zee used its 20s.

The 19's shorter tire diameters, in and of themselves, would also slightly lower the car, enhancing handling through lower cg.

Number 3, what say you?

I can tell you that the 305/30/19s break even on the front and save on the rear. They would fit the image of a road course ready Z28. Let's see what #3 says.

[thePill]

Please use my 2013 Z28 concept, I tried to use all of the enthusiast desired styling on my concept. Please oh please!!!!

[LOWDOWN]

I don't personally expect a totally redone body for the '13 Zee...but I've been wrong before...

Why don't you 'shop one for the Alpha platform? Then post it in the 'shop sub-forum...