Is GM-4718M oil a farce if dino oil is used and is changed every 3,000 miles? - Camaro5 Chevy Camaro Forum / Camaro ZL1, SS and V6 Forums

Hicompression · 10-11-2009, 10:22 PM

I want to run straight Castrol dinosaur 5W-30 oil in my Camaro. I can get this for less than half the price for a quart of Mobile 1. Isn't this GM-4718M spec really just a matter of oil change life?

Let's look at it this way. If I run dino oil and not synthetic, I'm going to change the oil at least every 3,000 miles. I'm sure the reason Mobile 1 is recommended is because it will last the 6,000 to 7,000 miles the COMPUTER tells you to run it before an oil change. I personally will never leave any oil in my car for 7,000 miles. Therefore Chevrolet doesn't want you driving with dino oil using the COMPUTER's oil change limits because it can in fact hurt the engine as life for dino oil is only 3,000 miles.

So, if I run straight Castrol (yeah I'm running the risk of voiding my warranty) and change the oil every 3,000 miles should that be a problem?

duder4thgen · 10-12-2009, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hicompression

I want to run straight Castrol dinosaur 5W-30 oil in my Camaro. I can get this for less than half the price for a quart of Mobile 1. Isn't this GM-4718M spec really just a matter of oil change life?

Let's look at it this way. If I run dino oil and not synthetic, I'm going to change the oil at least every 3,000 miles. I'm sure the reason Mobile 1 is recommended is because it will last the 6,000 to 7,000 miles the COMPUTER tells you to run it before an oil change. I personally will never leave any oil in my car for 7,000 miles. Therefore Chevrolet doesn't want you driving with dino oil using the COMPUTER's oil change limits because it can in fact hurt the engine as life for dino oil is only 3,000 miles.

So, if I run straight Castrol (yeah I'm running the risk of voiding my warranty) and change the oil every 3,000 miles should that be a problem?

From what I understand GM-4718M is more related to deposit control (sludge) and running at high temperatures than specifically oil life, though that might be a side effect.

From what I remember a group 2 like dino castrol is barely refined vs. a group 3/4 blend like something on the GM-4718M. For example they arent even hydrocracked (making oil molecules uniform in size), so they wouldnt hold up to pressure anywhere nearly as well as a synthetic.

If you changed it every 3k you *might* not notice a difference. You might get lucky, or you might walk a bearing or throw a rod 150k sooner than someone using synthetic. No way to tell for sure.

If I had just dropped ~$35k on a ls3, I'd just go ahead and drop the cash on some Mobil or Penzoil Platinum. Go to walmart, get the 5quart jug, and it should work out to $4.50 a quart or so, almost cheaper than conventional at somewhere like Autozone.

Hicompression · 10-12-2009, 07:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by duder4thgen

From what I understand GM-4718M is more related to deposit control (sludge) and running at high temperatures than specifically oil life, though that might be a side effect.

From what I remember a group 2 like dino castrol is barely refined vs. a group 3/4 blend like something on the GM-4718M. For example they arent even hydrocracked (making oil molecules uniform in size), so they wouldnt hold up to pressure anywhere nearly as well as a synthetic.

If you changed it every 3k you *might* not notice a difference. You might get lucky, or you might walk a bearing or throw a rod 150k sooner than someone using synthetic. No way to tell for sure.

If I had just dropped ~$35k on a ls3, I'd just go ahead and drop the cash on some Mobil or Penzoil Platinum. Go to walmart, get the 5quart jug, and it should work out to $4.50 a quart or so, almost cheaper than conventional at somewhere like Autozone.

Thanks, that's the kind of good input I'm looking for!

FirstLSK · 10-12-2009, 10:21 PM

Mobil 1 is recommended due to a potential thermal issue that dino oil cannot handle.

.

SSOOCH · 10-12-2009, 10:38 PM

$40k sports car and you want to skimp on the oil. Do you also run 88 ocatane gas in your SS?

tradosaurus · 10-13-2009, 07:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSOOCH

$40k sports car and you want to skimp on the oil. Do you also run 88 ocatane gas in your SS?

SSOOCH, SSOOCH, SSOOCH..... Why all the negativity?

From now on I want to see some positive reinforcement coming from your statements?

bono83 · 10-13-2009, 07:13 AM

If price is your concern, why not run the synthetic and change it at the computer recommendation? If it costs twice as much for the synthetic, but you change it half as much, the cost is the same as the dino. Plus, you'll be covered under warranty if there is a problem. If you're still old school about the 7000 mile oil change, send a sample of your used oil to an independent oil lab and let them put your mind at ease. That's what I did and was shocked that the oil was still good with 7000 miles on it. I used Blackstone labs in Indiana. You can Google them.

Hicompression · 10-13-2009, 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SSOOCH

$40k sports car and you want to skimp on the oil. Do you also run 88 ocatane gas in your SS?

No, and I don't stand in front of it with my pants down either.

SSOOCH · 10-13-2009, 08:43 AM

You should!

Banshee · 10-13-2009, 10:07 AM

I would be negative too if someone wanted to skimp on the "associated" cost and maintenance. Not that it is a Camaro, but any investment that took time and money to acquire.

Realistically, if you do your homework and math using synthetic is the same or cheaper than running dino and is better for your engine overall.

When Pennzoil Platinum goes on sale for $3.99 a quart, buy as much as you can for at least 3 oil changes. Also, most auto parts places and Walmart have a 5 qt. jug of Mobil1 synthetic and a Mobil1 filter for $28-30. I purchased enough Pennzoil Platinum and Mobil1 and 3 K&N filters to do 8 oil changes at a cost of $41.45 an oil change for full synthetic and the best filter on the market. I then did a oil change on my Ecotec 2.2 with Mobil dino and Mobil1 filter (oil change special) and the price was $22.95. Lets assume that dino can go 4000-5000 which is very realistic. Lets also assume that under the OLI, the SS can go 8k on synthetic...also very possible, but you want to change your oil at 4-5k.

What I suggest that you (or anyone) invest in is an oil analysys from Blackstone labs. If you have the original oil in right now (Mobil1 and filter) Get the free kit and send it off and for $20 you will get a detailed analysis of how your engine is wearing. For another $10 you get the TBN for $10 which tells you how much additives are left in the oil and how long yopu can factually go with the oil you have left.

Please consider this...Not that I want to go "green" but why waste money either way (dino or synthetic)? I had a 1998 T/A that had 168k on the odometer that I changed the oil every 6-10k depending on the results from a $32 oil analysis. I had oil analysis done every other oil change which was an investment for my baby. If you couple smart shopping for synthetic oil on sale with your Mobil1 filter, get the oil analysis every other oil change, you will actually come out ahead if you plan on keeping your car for an extended time. Since I am going forced induction, I plan on putting 3-4k on my engine and sending an oil analysis in and then every oil change. It really can save you grief if you plan on keeping your Camaro for 200k or more which is a real possibility with LS engines. Hell, my LS1 had 168k and was beat up at the track and on the streets, was fed Pennziol Platinum and still returned excellent wear and TBN;s at 168k and got 23-25 mpg modded. I will be sending an oil analysis for my 03 Cavalier when I clock 5k on dino. Why? just to see where I am at and adjust accordingly. If perhaps I am over the life of the oil at 5k, I am sure damage (if any) I may have done will be minimal, although damage will have been done. The goal is to maximize all possible life within say 90% and then change the oil. Why go 50% with ANY oil, dino or synthetic? Either way, it is a waste. The DIC OLI is a tried algorithm tried and tested on hunderd of thousands of GM vehicles. I will trust my OLI and change my oil when I have 10-15% left and leave that as a margin of error.

The cleaning and detergent properties, as well as other proprietarial aspects of the oil will benefit engine performance and life.

Sure you can run 87 octane in your SS Camaro at a drop in performance and fuel mileage, but if you do the math, you will see that the savings typified over a 2400 mile trip would be negligible..I estimated I would have saved $10-15 by using 87 over 93 at current pump prices. Certainly not beneficial when you weigh the benefits of 93 octane.

Hicompression · 10-15-2009, 08:33 AM

I went to Wally World and picked up a 5-quart jug of Pennzoil Platinum for $19.99. Problem is, is that it was their last jug of 5W-30. So I look at their single quart containers. It's listed at $5.00 which is more expensive per quart. So I buy the single 5-quart jug and head up to Autozone to pick up three quarts to make up the difference. I'll be damned if they didn't want $6.99 a quart! I'll have to wait until Wally World gets more 5-quart jug stock in.

Big D · 10-15-2009, 06:46 PM

I was told that the new Camaros were shipped out with regular 5/30 oil. I started to do my oil change at 1,000 miles to be safe and the cap had the Mobile 1 lable on it. I checked the oil and took a little down to a mechanic friend of mine who checked it and in fact it was synthetic. Did everyone else who got and SS have synthetic in it from the start?

brandotron · 10-15-2009, 06:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Big D

I was told that the new Camaros were shipped out with regular 5/30 oil. I started to do my oil change at 1,000 miles to be safe and the cap had the Mobile 1 lable on it. I checked the oil and took a little down to a mechanic friend of mine who checked it and in fact it was synthetic. Did everyone else who got and SS have synthetic in it from the start?

They all do. M1 from the factory.

CTS · 10-15-2009, 10:18 PM

GM4718M is General Motors' High Performance engine oil specification. Oils which meet GM4718M tend to be made from synthetic base stocks, so it is often referred to as a "synthetic" specification.

“However, not all oils, synthetic or otherwise, are capable of meeting the stringent requirements of GM4718M.

GM 4718M is the GM high performance oil specification that goes well beyond the industry standard ILSAC GF-4 and API SM specifications.

10-11-2009, 10:22 PM	#1
Hicompression Rumbly Bumble Bee Drives: 2010 2SS Camaro Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: DFW Posts: 1,469	Is GM-4718M oil a farce if dino oil is used and is changed every 3,000 miles? I want to run straight Castrol dinosaur 5W-30 oil in my Camaro. I can get this for less than half the price for a quart of Mobile 1. Isn't this GM-4718M spec really just a matter of oil change life? Let's look at it this way. If I run dino oil and not synthetic, I'm going to change the oil at least every 3,000 miles. I'm sure the reason Mobile 1 is recommended is because it will last the 6,000 to 7,000 miles the COMPUTER tells you to run it before an oil change. I personally will never leave any oil in my car for 7,000 miles. Therefore Chevrolet doesn't want you driving with dino oil using the COMPUTER's oil change limits because it can in fact hurt the engine as life for dino oil is only 3,000 miles. So, if I run straight Castrol (yeah I'm running the risk of voiding my warranty) and change the oil every 3,000 miles should that be a problem? __________________ 2010 RALLY YELLOW 2SS 6M -OBX Longtubes FTW!

10-12-2009, 10:21 PM	#4
FirstLSK Dude, I love my car !!!! Drives: 2010 Black 2SS/RS white rally Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: DFW Posts: 811	Mobil 1 is recommended due to a potential thermal issue that dino oil cannot handle. . __________________ -------------------------------------------------

10-12-2009, 10:38 PM	#5
SSOOCH Camaro SL,UTs Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS #16429 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Jordan, UT Posts: 7,358 View My Garage	$40k sports car and you want to skimp on the oil. Do you also run 88 ocatane gas in your SS? __________________

10-13-2009, 08:43 AM	#9
SSOOCH Camaro SL,UTs Drives: 2010 Camaro SS/RS #16429 Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: South Jordan, UT Posts: 7,358 View My Garage	You should! __________________

10-13-2009, 10:07 AM	#10
Banshee Institutionally Insane Drives: 2013 IOM 2SS/RS 1LE Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Detroit MI Posts: 2,115 View My Garage	I would be negative too if someone wanted to skimp on the "associated" cost and maintenance. Not that it is a Camaro, but any investment that took time and money to acquire. Realistically, if you do your homework and math using synthetic is the same or cheaper than running dino and is better for your engine overall. When Pennzoil Platinum goes on sale for $3.99 a quart, buy as much as you can for at least 3 oil changes. Also, most auto parts places and Walmart have a 5 qt. jug of Mobil1 synthetic and a Mobil1 filter for $28-30. I purchased enough Pennzoil Platinum and Mobil1 and 3 K&N filters to do 8 oil changes at a cost of $41.45 an oil change for full synthetic and the best filter on the market. I then did a oil change on my Ecotec 2.2 with Mobil dino and Mobil1 filter (oil change special) and the price was $22.95. Lets assume that dino can go 4000-5000 which is very realistic. Lets also assume that under the OLI, the SS can go 8k on synthetic...also very possible, but you want to change your oil at 4-5k. What I suggest that you (or anyone) invest in is an oil analysys from Blackstone labs. If you have the original oil in right now (Mobil1 and filter) Get the free kit and send it off and for $20 you will get a detailed analysis of how your engine is wearing. For another $10 you get the TBN for $10 which tells you how much additives are left in the oil and how long yopu can factually go with the oil you have left. Please consider this...Not that I want to go "green" but why waste money either way (dino or synthetic)? I had a 1998 T/A that had 168k on the odometer that I changed the oil every 6-10k depending on the results from a $32 oil analysis. I had oil analysis done every other oil change which was an investment for my baby. If you couple smart shopping for synthetic oil on sale with your Mobil1 filter, get the oil analysis every other oil change, you will actually come out ahead if you plan on keeping your car for an extended time. Since I am going forced induction, I plan on putting 3-4k on my engine and sending an oil analysis in and then every oil change. It really can save you grief if you plan on keeping your Camaro for 200k or more which is a real possibility with LS engines. Hell, my LS1 had 168k and was beat up at the track and on the streets, was fed Pennziol Platinum and still returned excellent wear and TBN;s at 168k and got 23-25 mpg modded. I will be sending an oil analysis for my 03 Cavalier when I clock 5k on dino. Why? just to see where I am at and adjust accordingly. If perhaps I am over the life of the oil at 5k, I am sure damage (if any) I may have done will be minimal, although damage will have been done. The goal is to maximize all possible life within say 90% and then change the oil. Why go 50% with ANY oil, dino or synthetic? Either way, it is a waste. The DIC OLI is a tried algorithm tried and tested on hunderd of thousands of GM vehicles. I will trust my OLI and change my oil when I have 10-15% left and leave that as a margin of error. The cleaning and detergent properties, as well as other proprietarial aspects of the oil will benefit engine performance and life. Sure you can run 87 octane in your SS Camaro at a drop in performance *and* fuel mileage, but if you do the math, you will see that the savings typified over a 2400 mile trip would be negligible..I estimated I would have saved $10-15 by using 87 over 93 at current pump prices. Certainly not beneficial when you weigh the benefits of 93 octane. __________________ It's got a cop motor, a 440 cubic inch plant, it's got cop tires, cop suspension, cop shocks. It's a model made before catalytic converters so it'll run good on regular gas. What do you say, is it the new Bluesmobile or what?

10-13-2009, 07:13 AM	#7
bono83 Drives: 1969 Chevelle, 2010 1LT Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Chicago suburbs Posts: 378	If price is your concern, why not run the synthetic and change it at the computer recommendation? If it costs twice as much for the synthetic, but you change it half as much, the cost is the same as the dino. Plus, you'll be covered under warranty if there is a problem. If you're still old school about the 7000 mile oil change, send a sample of your used oil to an independent oil lab and let them put your mind at ease. That's what I did and was shocked that the oil was still good with 7000 miles on it. I used Blackstone labs in Indiana. You can Google them.

10-15-2009, 08:33 AM	#11
Hicompression Rumbly Bumble Bee Drives: 2010 2SS Camaro Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: DFW Posts: 1,469	I went to Wally World and picked up a 5-quart jug of Pennzoil Platinum for $19.99. Problem is, is that it was their last jug of 5W-30. So I look at their single quart containers. It's listed at $5.00 which is more expensive per quart. So I buy the single 5-quart jug and head up to Autozone to pick up three quarts to make up the difference. I'll be damned if they didn't want $6.99 a quart! I'll have to wait until Wally World gets more 5-quart jug stock in. __________________ 2010 RALLY YELLOW 2SS 6M -OBX Longtubes FTW!

10-15-2009, 06:46 PM	#12
Big D Drives: 2010 Camaro 2SS/AT (Silver) Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Orange County, California Posts: 42	I was told that the new Camaros were shipped out with regular 5/30 oil. I started to do my oil change at 1,000 miles to be safe and the cap had the Mobile 1 lable on it. I checked the oil and took a little down to a mechanic friend of mine who checked it and in fact it was synthetic. Did everyone else who got and SS have synthetic in it from the start?

10-15-2009, 10:18 PM	#14
CTS Drives: 2021 Sierra Denali 6.2L/10sp CC 4WD Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Houghton, Michigan Posts: 234 View My Garage	GM4718M is General Motors' High Performance engine oil specification. Oils which meet GM4718M tend to be made from synthetic base stocks, so it is often referred to as a "synthetic" specification. “However, not all oils, synthetic or otherwise, are capable of meeting the stringent requirements of GM4718M. GM 4718M is the GM high performance oil specification that goes well beyond the industry standard ILSAC GF-4 and API SM specifications. __________________ Mike Synthoil Supply 2021 GMC Sierra Denali CC Ultimate 6.2L