2011 Camaro SS Vs 1969 Camaro Zl1 STOCK

[assasinator]

both heads are open chamber. early l88's were the old head.


http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...8/l88prod.html




http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...l88engine.html

[assasinator]

Originally Posted by radz28

They are not L88 heads. I can't remember which way it went, but L88s were open chamber heads and ZL1 heads were closed chamber (or vise versa . I have an article, from Hot Rod, when they released ZL1, and it had all the differences from L88. I know gross numbers and the net numbers are different, though. I haven't seen any net numbers on ZL1, so I can't really comment on that.

It seems a LS7 doesn't have to rev' to 7500 for good numbers. It makes peak at what, around 6000? Port volume is a lot greater (what, like 360ccs).

i wasnt talking a 7 liter ls7. the comparison is ls3 and ZL1.

if a ls3 wants to compete all-out it would need to rev very high to do it. to get to 550 gross hp a LS3 would need very little.

[radz28]

Originally Posted by assasinator

both heads are open chamber. early l88's were the old head.

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...8/l88prod.html

http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...l88engine.html

My literature (let alone these that have no mention of ZL1 heads) says another difference is round exhaust ports on ZL1s, whereas they were D-ports on the remaining BBC heads. Maybe I didn't see the ZL1 referrence - the second link didn't come up for me...

Originally Posted by assasinator

i wasnt talking a 7 liter ls7. the comparison is ls3 and ZL1.

if a ls3 wants to compete all-out it would need to rev very high to do it. to get to 550 gross hp a LS3 would need very little.

And I'm using LS7 as a Gen IV example that it's not necessary to rev' these engines into the stratosphere to make great power. I agree that it takes very little to make more power Your comment, earlier, doesn't make sense about having the rev' it so much higher to make more power

[usa1camaro1969]

And we're still comparing technology that's 40+ years apart?
I think I'd take a ZL1 or even the L88. Call me old. I lived through the years where Chevy even put a 305 in the Corvette. I like the rats.

[Bad70supreme]

The old school big blocks are monsters, BUT they have much bigger limitations then the LS3. The old BBs had oiling problems, much weaker rods, crank and main cap placement was terrible. The old motors take ALOT of short block work to live past 550hp or else your looking at crank flex and spun bearings! I have been around the old school stuff my hole life, the new LS engines BLOW away the old motors because you simply could just put headers and a cam in a LS3... and make just as much power as a wormed over old Big block and yet be much more reliable with the LS! Thats why I got rid of my old stuff and got a new camaro

[assasinator]

im not being overbearing but......

those heads have the 2nd half 69 l88/ZL1 casting number. they are what they are. the casting number is visible. those exhaust ports go with the heads they are on.

i never mentioned the LS7. the OP's proposition is the LS3, and thats what i'm referring to. mention of the 7 liter LS7 has no place in the original discussion.

we arent talking bout a 400+ cubes gen iv. 6.2 liters.



square port BBC were the BOSS429, 426HEMI's of chevy. overdone. ports too large. piss poor castings. a velocity map will show dead spots where there is little velocity in all three. especially the exhaust of the ford 429boss.


all three are legend. stick a modern Yates inspired combustion chamber, and its lights out.

[kickasswelch69]

Do you mean lights out for the 5th gen camaro? or for the zl1?

[SSLarry]

MERGED THREAD
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All this talk about the 2012 ZL1 had me doing some research on the original . I know 40 years is a long time, but the ZL1 specs were insane

But with more torque and a lighter car, why is the '69 ZL1 (slightly) slower in a straight line than the current SS?

Does it just come down to modern tire traction and gear ratios, or did they not measure power and speed as accurately way back then?

http://musclecars.howstuffworks.com/...camaro-zl1.htm


The 1969 Chevrolet Camaro ZL1
Specifications
Wheelbase, inches: 108.1
Weight, lbs: 3,300
Number built: 69
Base price: $7,200

Standard Engine
Type: ohv V-8
Displacement, cid: 427
Fuel system: 1 x 4bbl.
Compression ratio: 12.0:1
Horsepower @ rpm: 430 @ 5200
Torque @ rpm: 450 @ 4400

Representative Performance
0-60 mph, sec: 5.3
1/4 mile, sec. @ mph: 13.16 @ 110

[nhra stocker]

Tires played a HUGE roll in it.

May 2007 Camaro performers magazine has a great article on the 69 ZL-1. They called it HELLBOY. Basically with some tinkering to the valve lash , carb , headers and some 8.5 M&Hs they ran 11.64 at 122 in the original 1970 Drag test. Also at the end of the article was mentioned at the proving grounds in Milford one of the 2 only ZL-1 vettes was out fitted with only a tire mod. Being a 10.50 x 15 M&H racemaster and it went 10.70s ALL DAY LONG!!! They considered that to be the key to the kingdom!

[Mr Twisty]

The old bias ply tires sucked.

I could mention gross vs. net HP ratings also, but the motor was WAY under-rated, so even net, it was well north of the 2010 SS.

The 69 ZL1...Throw drag slicks on it and hang on!

[Hylton]

Originally Posted by nhra stocker

Tires played a HUGE roll in it.

May 2007 Camaro performers magazine has a great article on the 69 ZL-1. They called it HELLBOY. Basically with some tinkering to the valve lash , carb , headers and some 8.5 M&Hs they ran 11.64 at 122 in the original 1970 Drag test. Also at the end of the article was mentioned at the proving grounds in Milford one of the 2 only ZL-1 vettes was out fitted with only a tire mod being a 10.50 x 15 M&H racemaster and it went 10.70s ALL DAY LONG!!!

This

[porcupinekiller]

You might want to check out this thread as it is very similar.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125291

[SSLarry]

Originally Posted by porcupinekiller

You might want to check out this thread as it is very similar.
http://www.camaro5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=125291

Thanks.

[Mr Twisty]

ZL1 was aluminum block.
Here's the new old ZL1 for your enjoyment
(GM made 427 of these a few years back)
http://www.summitracing.com/parts/NAL-19166392

...And an informative post from Chevelles.com...

It is an on going debate but here in the last 4 years there has been some stuff that has made some neat information available on this topic.

I'm involved in PSMCDR (Pure Stock Muscle Car Drag Racing) as my hobby. It kind of is a purist thing that reflects cars potential of going fast at the strip. The rules are at this website http://www.geocities.com/psmcdr/ The rules allow for an over bore and blueprinting to NHRA specs.

The ZL1 of Pete Simpsons has run in 2 modes, non blue print and Blue printed. Non blue printed at 10.8 to 1 compression with the GM ZL-1 made 465hp with stock exhaust manifolds (camaro). Headers turned I beleive 505hp. The problem with this motor was the cylinder pressure was only about 100 psi cranking pressure. The dynamic compression was dismel to say the least. It really only made power at high RPM.

He has since blue printed the motor and is right around 500hp with the manifolds (camaro). Obviously a corvette exhaust manifold would help greatly. The ZL1 camaro has run a best of 12.05 @ 116.05 on F70 x 14 Goodyear Polyglass restoration tires.

Petes cousin drives an L-88 Corvette under the same rules. dynoed at 535hp with Corvette exhaust manifolds and 572hp with headers. It is an NHRA spec setup motor as well. Quickest times are 11.60 at 121mph. JJ thinks it will go 11.40's this year. Yes, these are on the restoration Firestione Wide Oval tires pulling a mid 1.80's 60 foot time. The car weights in at 3400 with driver.

The guys are purest in the sense that they use GM parts. Yes, the cams are the GM stock cams that you pick up at the GM parts counter.

The camaro is an automatic and the Corvette is a 4 speed. Both run 4.56 gears!

Jim
__________________
1970 Chevelle LS-6
Pure Stock Drag Racing
12.21 at 115.32mph on G70-14 Goodyear Polyglas
PSMCDR 2009